Verbal snobbery

Nothing causes me more exasperation than words I keep using myself. I notice them, and want to put something else in its place, and can't think of an appropriate replacement:

On the Most Hated list:
'simple/ly', 'blatant/ly', 'mere/ly', 'logic/ally', 'think', 'good', 'decent'.

In my creative writing, I have similar problems with eyes, air, people turning around, people doing things with their lips and teeth, standing, lying down and croaking, and the night. Son of a bitch.

Well generally I love the richness, variety and endless mutability of language, but...

I am trying to stop myself saying "Cheers!" instead of "Bye!" (or whatever) to the bus driver as I alight from his vehicle...

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

basically

I use 'way' way too much.

Jack: Your 'most hated' list sounds like a series of out-takes from a speech by Tony Blair.

Another of his phrases which gets me - and he uses it in just about everything he says - is 'I think it's important'.... especially when he's referring to 'ordinary, decent, hardworking people'.

"Moving forward."

I hate this phrase...I prefer to move in non-congruent angles along poorly defined dirt roads amongst the shadows.

I refuse to move forward with my management team using my proactive paradigms to leverage my customer-centric efficiencies.

Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

I'm with Jack, it's words I use, so the same as ivoryfishbone and also 'to be honest', implying I'm usually dishonest.
Craig

I cringe when I call someone, "mate."

WHEN THEY'RE NOT! LOL

"'Right, mate?"

aghh!

Next I'll be listening to monotonous European sex music.

I don't really like, "right" or "ok" so I tend to stop myself and then come out with something worse like, "oky smoky koky doky."

Daddy, take the banana! Tomorrow it's Sunday! - Faust

My God, RD, even though I know ye jest, all that management lingo just makes me cringe like a big old cringing cringy-thing!! :-///

"Moving forward"... YEUCH!!

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Another one...

"We'll throw a study on it"

Hell, I can throw dog poop on it and get the same result.

It's a snobbish way of saying, "Shut the fuck up, we're not interested in your fucking opinion you moron."

Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

I must be an inverted snob then.

I am opposed to the word 'cognitive' which in 9 out of 10 cases could be replaced by 'mental'. Mental is an everyday word that is accessible. Cognitive is neither.

I'd also like to see 'community' treated with the disrespect it deserves. Mostly it is used to imply a togetherness that simply does not exist. Be deeply suspicious of anyone who overuses this word. They are almost certainly trying to sell you a pup.

i would like to make it clear ... i do not overuse the word 'basically' ... i loathe hearing the word ...

i overuse the word 'clearly'

i used to work with a woman who always said 'utilize' when she should have said 'use' and it made me want to shoot her ...

Yan: I'm like that. I call everyone mate, mate. Except mum, who's mater.

'Liason' corrupted into the English verb 'to liase'. Where's my machine gun?

'I can't get my head around it.' Where's my axe, then?

'Cognitive' and 'mental' mean quite different things, Brooosh - but I won't go there again (which is a phrase I use too much, too). I mean, you wouldn't say 'The bloke went fucking cognitive when I told him', would you. Though actually, I quite like the sound of that.

'Community', though? Wassup with that? Doesn't have to imply togetherness at all (if you mean it in the sense of 'common purpose and interest'). All it really means is 'people living in a specific locality'... though we'd hope they were all ordinary, decent and hardworking, of course.

Alan you miss my point.

Mental and cognitive mean different things, but in everyday language the scientific precision of cognitive is overkill and generally not required. Mental will mostly do just as well. The shade of meaning that is lost is a small price to pay for avoiding the listener unfriendliness of cognitive

It's a bit like when people say 'the kettle is boiling'. They are not being strictly scientific, because metal cannot boil at 100 degrees centigrade. But in everyday language it works perfectly well and is a lot better than having to say very ponderously 'the water in the kettle is boiling'.

My objection to 'community' is in phrases such as 'the gay community' or 'the muslim community'.

These are often used by lazy commentators to imply that hundreds of thousands of people are all acting and thinking in the same way, when the truth is within these so-called communities people hold a wide range of different views.

I also object to these phrases being used in that patronising Patricia Hewitt kind of way to enable politicians to put words into other people's mouths in an effort to support otherwise unsupportable views.

Trust me. It's a horribly misused word.

"...exciting times ahead..."

:-/

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

"... faciliate..."

:-///

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

"Let's make it happen!"

:-/////

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

"It's gotta be done."

:-////////////////////////////

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Brooosh: I'm with you on 'community' - as you say, horribly misused. But it's a nice word, nonetheless. And I like the idea of inclusivity that it conveys, even if the reality is something else.

Patricia Hewitt should be tied up with Ruth Kelly, and they should both then be made to listen to their own speeches for a week. Maybe they'd get the message then (actually, they probably have the same speech writer that Tony Blair has - it all sounds the same, anyway. New Labour, eh?)

That's another term I hate: New Labour. Gahh! It all feels a bit 'slightly used' or 'secondhand' Labour now.

I am very confused by 'community leaders'. How do I find out who mine is? How does one become one? Does it pay well?

I have been getting annoyed at people using 'source' and 'author' as verbs.

(cartoon in Private Eye last week: "I'm not shopping, I'm sourcing ingredients.")

"What are you doing with that hotdog?"
"I am saucing my sausage."

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I'd mount a coup, Dan. Storm the town hall, seize the chain of office, decree a fortnight's community holiday and instigate a 'Happy Hour' that lasts all weekend. You'll be loved forever - though you probably already are.

I'm off out to source some sauce.

I confess to using 'to be honest' 'at the end of the day' and 'basically' far too much.

I need help - I would seek psychotherapy but I used to have a psychotherapist who used to say 'intoxicated' all the fookin time (what's wrong with plain 'drunk') . Before that I had another psychotherapist who looked like an alpaca and had the brains of one too (apologies to llama-kind) and used to spout psychobabble all the time in an attempt to disguise the fact. I have come to loathe the therapy industry.

jude

"Cacoethes scribendi"
http://www.judesworld.net

What's wrong with plain 'pissed'? Though it's a much over-used word. Versatile, though: drunk, angry, fed up, past tense of urinate.

I had a therapist who wanted me to put Post-it notes all around my flat, each with something written on it to the effect of 'I'm a good person', 'People like me', 'I feel confident about myself', etc. I worried about what my visitors might think.

Not that I ever get any.... Probably because I'm a bad person and people don't like me.

he he he...

The funniest observation of therapy I have ever read came from Hox , "I am worrying about my low self esteem, but John reassures me that it's a common problem with losers."

http://www.abctales.com/node/538616

jude

"Cacoethes scribendi"
http://www.judesworld.net

Imagine how happy we could all be if we didn't concern ourselves with such things...?

Just a thought.

(I say "just a thought" too much...)

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I'm not keen on is all those pretentious French words that really don't belong in the English language but people like to weave them in.

Things like: chagrin, milieu, penchant, parvenu, insouciant, decolletage, boutique, croissant, pain au raisin, enfant terrible, hors d'oeuvre, fin de siecle, cafe au lait, objets d'art, bric-a-brac, vis-a-vis. I reckon we can get by without them.

And I don't like it the other way round when the French say stuff like le weekend, le breakfast, le sex swap operation.

Something else I hate is when people are having a sandwich in the office and they say they are 'lunching al desko'.

Um, the French occupied England for long enough that a lot of their vocabulary is endemic to the English language. Otherwise we wouldn't have fabulous words like 'sabotage' or 'coup d'etat' or 'renaissance'.

Are you really wound up that easily, Brooosh?

Madamoiselle Archer

It's not the end of the world if people use these words, but it does sound horribly pretentious when they do. I just cannot bring myself to say stuff like this, especially when we have perfectly good English alternatives.

What's wrong with showing a bit of cleavage or ordering a white coffee and a crescent-shaped roll?

a croissant is a roll, but in the English we mean a bread-roll when talking about a roll so it'd be confusing. Also, an English white coffee is made with cold milk. To clarify you could ask for buttery crescent-shaped puff-pastry-roll and a coffee made with hot steamed milk but you would probably sound a bit silly.

jude

"Cacoethes scribendi"
http://www.judesworld.net

"crescent-shaped roll"...??!

A croissant is a croissant is a croissant, Monsieur Brooosh!!

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

And what would you have us call a capuccino?

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

"a buttery crescent-shaped puff-pastry-roll" reminded me of Mr Logic from Viz! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Logic

White coffee topped with foam and chocolate or as Mr Logic would say -strong filtered italian coffee with hot steamed milk and topped with the froth which is a by product of the steaming process and sprinkled with chocolate.

jude

"Cacoethes scribendi"
http://www.judesworld.net

All part of the organic nature of language, Brooosh - though I still rail against 'to liase', and I do agree that some of it sounds pretentious. Crwassorn sounds so much better than crescent-shaped roll, though. Just as petit dejeuner sounds better than eggs, chips and beans.

And I don't know, but I think it may be Madame Archer. I'm ready to stand corrected, though.

How about a few more German words? Then we could have 'gemeinschaft' instead of 'community'. And we could all express our weltanschauung - or even our weltschmerz. Personally, I think French sounds better.

Right... back to my bildungsroman.

In practice what I say is "I'll have one of those things" and point. I do the same for pain au raisin.

As for capuccino, don't get me started. AllI need is a cup of instant white coffee. Why can you not buy such a thing in Wild Bean Cafes and the like?

Actually I know the answer. If you give it a ludicrous name you can charge a ludicrous price. They'd never get away with £1.99 for Nescafe.

And in a strange twist of irony, that article about Mr Logic could have been written by Mr Logic himself! :-))

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I'm still looking forward intensely to the day when I'm asked 'What KIND of coffee, sir?' Hot and black, mate. Oh, and decaff... Look, just give me the jar and the kettle and I'll do it myself.

Well pricing aside, a genuine capuccino requires the frothing of the milk, n'est-ce pas?

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

And specifics aside, aren't we talking here about the Purity of the English Language? And wouldn't such a concept be a contradiction in terms?

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

Alan

The fact is words of French origin tend to be more lengthy and pretentious while words of Germanic origin tend to be shorter and more to the point. It was after all the Anglo Saxons who gave us all those wonderfully pithy four-letter words.

French sounds more romantic, though.
'Voulez-vous coucher avec moi?' versus 'Fancy the two of us shacking up for the night?' No contest.

"The funniest observation of therapy I have ever read came from Hox , "I am worrying about my low self esteem, but John reassures me that it's a common problem with losers."
Ha ha! How about 'He always sets himself the lowest standards of achievement, but always fails to live up to them'.

Our language evolved from Latin and anglo-saxon

Sanskrit is the oldest (non-extinct Indo European language) and to be honest, I speak a little Sanskrit, so, at the end of the day, if we're talking purity then basically, I'm the winner, if you know what I mean.

jude

"Cacoethes scribendi"
http://www.judesworld.net

Okay. Can't argue with that. How about a little Sanskrit, Jude?

Another word I overuse to death: wossname - referring to anything or anybody. I've got a terrible memory.

One thing the French get absolutely right with their language (which we fail to do) is put the adjective after the noun. This is a much more listener friendly way of speaking. Tell people what the thing is and then describe it. After all the adjective is meaningless until you know what noun it applies to.

One of the things I hate about listening to English is having to hold the adjective in my head while I wait for the speaker to give me the noun. If there's a long list of adjectives it can seem like a lifetime has passed before you get to the noun.

Give us some Sanskrit Jude.

Sorry to disagree with you Jude, but humans were grunting thousands of years before Sanskrit developed, and I've been grunting for years, so I guess 'I' am the winner.

That is until haemorrhoid decides to have the last word. I notice he's managed to terminate 8 of the last 10 or so threads today already.

I don't normally take sides, but Missi, at least Pepsoid writes things that make me smile.

Words I use too much:

Absolutely
Right

He may make YOU and even some others smile but he's pissed off a lot of others, some to the point where they don't come here anymore.

Not because he's nasty (a charge that's been laid at my door a few times), but because he's reduced this forum to banality with his incessant (sorry about the big word Bruce) schoolboy threads and posts.

Well, he hasn't managed to chase you away yet, Mr. Missi, so I imagine he isn't as bad as you'd like to think.

I just don't see the point in getting wound up about language. The Anglo-Saxons gave us the brilliant bones of our language, yes, and Churchill's finest speeches were mostly comprised of Anglo-Saxonisms (making them concise and highly effective, I might add...). But the French added a richness to English and widened the possibilities of expression. I don't think the Frenchisms ('cappucino' is actually Italian; another gorgeous language) sound pretentious at all, unless the person is already pretentious, in which case s/he'll sound like a prat no matter what language s/he uses. Doncha think? I mean, I love pain au raisins with a cappucino (or better, a macchiato); if I want a white coffee, I'll say 'white coffee' and get something entirely different.

AG: "I just don't see the point in getting wound up about language."

Hear hear! I admit I do cringe at certain words and phrases, or perhaps I should specify, "certain words and phrases in particular contexts" - but generally language (English, French, whatever) is rich and varied and ever-changing, and we as writers/readers should revel in this fact.

[ Thanks for the positive words, Lisa & AG... Missi hasn't chased me off the site yet either, as I don't believe his incessantly banal bullying and "Voice of The ABC Forums" demeanour are actually as representative of the feeling of the members of ABC as he'd like to think... ;-) ]

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

The "Voice of The ABC Forums" demeanour...ha ha! Yes, I've been a news item for that voice, too, on occasion. Cracks me up, it does.

He may make YOU and even some others smile but he's pissed off a lot of others, some to the point where they don't come here anymore.'

Not as many as you, i wager.

I like you, Peaceful... :-)

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

It takes all kinds of critters to make farmer Vincent's fritters.

Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

Missi is the forum pitbull...

He needs to be muzzled...

and if someone can chop his cock off too...I'd be indebted! ;)

Daddy, take the banana! Tomorrow it's Sunday! - Faust

Why's that yan, hoping you'll get it in the post to suck on. Not surprised your woman fucked off. Maybe instead of blaming outside forces you should wonder if she wasn't fucking other men due to a lack of satisfaction on your part.
Pissfull - back from your trip of sexual deviancy are you?

Your omniscience is gratifying, God. Why didn't I think of that? The reason she was fucking other men, almighty one, is due to a lack of satisfaction on my part! Talking of parts (and dogs) - if I received Missi's cock in the post I'd save it for your poxy, lily-white ass!

'you should wonder if she wasn't fucking other men due to a lack of satisfaction on your part.'

But she was.

Daddy, take the banana! Tomorrow it's Sunday! - Faust

Multiple personality disorder?

One minute Mr. Love & Peace, the next wanting to stick a severed penis up someones lily-white ass. Which is it? Love or Hate?

At an absolute minimum, Mississippi is honest and consistent. That's the starting point mind you.

Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

Erm... I think Yan was somewhat goaded, Radio... :-/

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

(who are you, GodAlmighty?)

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

ooh goody, an argument. Someone wake me up when we get to the bit about old abctalers vs new abctalers. I always enjoy that bit.

Or trolling... who is pretending to be who?

Or is anyone who they say they are?

Anyway, I'm off to bed... G'night all! :-)))

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

"GodAlmighty is not accepting e-mails."

Ah well... guess we'll just have to rely on prayer, then.

"AllI need is a cup of instant white coffee."

Wtf? Instant coffee? Let's just progress to food pills and have done with it!

Buying a normal cup of coffee is *really* easy. You go anywhere and you ask for 'filter coffee'. You get served a cup of black with a couple of milk tubs or a jug if you're lucky. Sugar's on the table. Some places might also do instant, if you ask, but that's like going to a restaurant and asking for a microwave ready meal.

"if I received Missi's cock in the post I'd save it for your poxy, lily-white ass!"
What makes you think it's white, seriously you should ask your wife, who if you don't mind me saying, gives great head.

language, language

'... seriously you should ask your wife, who if you don't mind me saying, gives great head.'

I'll have to agree with you there :)

'...going to a restaurant and asking for a microwave ready meal.'

I went to a local cafe and asked for scrambled eggs on toast for my kid. The owner said, "can't do scrambled eggs, the microwave's not working."

eh? lol

Same with a 'meal pub' I was in last Tuesday. Chips were off the menu because, "..they haven't been delivered yet." But I could have a jacket spud with my meal instead. The cheek!!

Daddy, take the banana! Tomorrow it's Sunday! - Faust

I recently went to a place in Worcester called Little Venice, asked for some sort of pasta-based meal (can't remember what it was, but it sounded "authentic"), also to be told that the packets that these meals came in hadn't yet been delivered... :-/

GodAlmighty... you are unpleasant, aren't you?

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I went to KFC once and they'd run out of chicken, they were getting some taxi'd over from Bagshot.

Hey, Arsula! You're a fine one to talk about language. I thought you got off on this kinda OTT stuff!

Going to pick me off are you, sniper? Let's talk about going OTT shall we? Oh yeah- that's right! You're doing it now!

Stone me! What the hell's up with some of you people? This is supposed to be a thread about verbal snobbery, not verbal abuse.

Hear - and may I add? - hear, Mr B!

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I loved Mr. Logic, also Roger Irrelevant:
"Lan' sakes, Georgia! I thought you were micturating those whelks."

1/Back to the initial point of the thread, I hate unnecessary adjectives, also being told to "action" something.
2/My friend Harv coined "Mysterioso" a few years ago, which caught on in Newcastle through a network of friends and appeared as a huge slogan on Ben thingy T-shirts in 2004. Beat that for a hardy Meme.
3/I used "random" as a noun a few years ago and we are being inundated with "randoms" or even "randomites" depending on age of viewer. I hope that this last thing is just a coincidence.

Chessable 9-5 at -
Kurnik.org: Corruptsailor
freechess.org: Ricardinio

I was like saying to him.

Reply to pepsoid above re Little Venice in Worcester

You are mistaken. I know this restaurant very well. They make all their pasta sauces on the premises. They are an independent restaurant, not part of some chain and their sauces are not delivered in packets, jars or tins unlike other places where it is all produced in factories and shipped out to multiple sites.

Peps!? Are you giving 'Little Venice' a bad name on google? :)

There's nothing more mind-teasing than the incomprehensible eagerly avowed - Dennett

Erm... OK, knowmy... whoever you are!

Yan2... "From the mouths of waiters" & all that...

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I say 'innit' too much. But I don't mind. In Norfolk there is a real proliferation of the word 'aweseome'... I hear it said at least 20 times daily. Some of it, I must say, is me.

I used to hate the word 'babe' a lot, but at certain times it is the precise word I want to hear.

Re the french/english thing... the main reason we have two words for things - such as sad/miserable - is from when the Normans came. Miserable has French routes, as do many of those longer words for the same one syllabal thing. Language will always change and grow and that is that. I think Amis is prob right when talking about literature and books, but if I had to think about saying something new every time I chatted I wouldn't have half as much fun.

Innit?

"Language will always change and grow and that is that."

Amen! ;-)

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

I've always been an advocate of simplicity and clarity in language.

Take "innit", so sniffed and snorted at by clever dicks around the UK. Innit is actually a very good idea, because this filler and minor expression of doubt at the end of a sentence should indeed be easy to execute -- like "n'est-ce-pas" in French (pretty much a direct translation of innit) and "nicht wahr" in German.

It's typical of the pointlessly convoluted nature of English that our version requires we conjugate whichever verb is in closest proximity (isn't it? aren't we? haven't you? Don't they? etc). Far too much thought put into such an incidental idea.

The "innit" people have it right. We should be putting more thought into other things (though admittedly those who currently use it invest that spare thought into playstation cheats and ringtone website addresses!)

Using big words for clarity is great; but using them as I'm-clever-me pseudonyms, so as not to use words that are in more common use is tw*ttishness in the extreme.

And my biggest beef is not people getting things wrong because they have problems following the hideous logic of English: it's those prats who use big words and get them wrong.

Innit, tho'!

pe
ps
oid

... What is "The Art of Tea"? ...
(www.pepsoid.wordpress.com)

When I forget a guy's name and just call em "man"

I hope nobody spotted the irony of me bemoaning people using big words and getting them wrong, straight after saying "pseudonym" instead of "synonym".

Oh dear.

Aw, you knew what I meant!

I think your comments on innit, are excellent. I mentioned it to my Dad, BP (big pedant) and he almost burst a vessel.

Thank you kindly, I do try. Hope dad feels better soon. If he doesn't, tell him I didn't mean it.

I've got loads of whinges like that. I'll put them on slow release.