Dyslexic Poetry

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timihim
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Hay ‘thia if any consolation I didn’t get the joke either! I just didn’t say so cause I didn’t read it till now … Liana … am impressed you can read Braille. I tried once, there are different levels aren’t there like 1 and two or something? I wonder how well you can do it, and how accurately it can correspond with –sight-language (I don’t know what its called!). Is there much poetry written by the blind? Quite a smart point I thought. Probably a really dumb and rude question on my half though. Who said Einstein had a sense of humour? I thought he was an incredibly quiet man – excellent teacher, but very, very quiet. That is why at school they thought he was a dunce; I don’t think he spoke till he was 7 or something ridiculous. Bit of useless and contestable knowledge for you. One other thing about him though – and this point is so NOT factual – he never finished his field theory they say because he stopped using his visions and reverted to abstract maths. He conventionalised. Perhaps if dyslexics were, in his day, encouraged to make use of perceptual visions the physics world wouldn’t be the divided mess it is now. Now some physics expert is going to tell me to shut up because that is all so wrong. But hay – it is a dyslexic interpretation – don’t diss it, ;)
ely whitley
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Up until today I worked in the sign industry. I designed and project managed sign packages for large institutions like universities and hospitals. As part of my work I was trained as an auditor for DDA regulations, (Disability Discriminations Act). I had to think like a disabled person might do when trying to find my way around a campus or an office block. The number of different elements that have to be considered is huge. There are at least six different variations of visual impairment not to mention colour blindness, wheelchair access, hearing disorders, people who can and can't read braille or moon (another form of tactile writing). People who don't speak English. Most of it is about simplification. I only mention this because I'm struck by the comments in this thread. I reads like an alien nation is trying to apply for a visa. The world would seem to be made up of dyslexics and 'non-dyslexics' as though you can be classed by what you aren't. I've worked with a lot of people who would see the world divided differently, those with legs and those without; those who use sign language and those who don't. There's a whole world of problems out there and a whole set of assets that we see as being problems (Thia's point above) but let's not get into a 'them and us' mentality or into thinking that dyslexia is a brave new world of enlightenment. I'm sure there's a lot we can learn from anyone who can see the world in a different way to us but setting up camps isn't going to make it a better place.
timihim
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Ely whitely I hear what you are saying BUT: dyslexia can exist along side normal life, you can get brain tumours if you are dyslexic, you can be blind if you are dyslexic, you can be handicapped if you … you get my point. The thing is, whilst I could be interested in looking at the problems facing a person with brain tumours (I have had one, but fortunately had it removed at Christmas) it doesn’t seem to be something that I relate as useful to poetry. This is what I am looking at here: poetry and dyslexia e.g. how dyslexia is a useful concept for reading poetry. I think you are acknowledging ‘here and us’ as something that shows isolated self-pity. From what I can understand, you are essentially saying stop pitying yourself because there are loads of other problems that people deal with and it wont help your case to assert your self as different. . Yes – I understand that. I think what you are misunderstanding is that there is a problem within dyslexia in how you define it. There doesn’t seem to be any one trait that you could fairly say identifies all dyslexics. Whereas with blind or handicapped persons it is easier to recognise common traits, though whilst I understand these categories can be seen as discriminating - stereotyping - they are, on the other hand, defined for useful things, for example, so people can do the job that you do i.e. finding ways of making lives independent – or having independence as an option. The deal is with dyslexia, there is nothing that fairly relates to everyone, and if say there was a principle that could evolve which proved that as a concept it is useful to literature, at some point you have to create a definition. Thus, the way that you might create a definition is by saying, well, you are dyslexic if you are not nondyslexic. Thus, I don’t se making a team A and team B as a useful tool in itself, in fact I don’t think that there ARE two types of people: dyslexics and nondyslexic. Personally I think we are all a bit of both. However, if we can define certain boundaries i.e. recognising mental differences, we might then be able to regard the power structures that, in my opinion, repress a dyslexic’s natural talent. See what I mean?
Andrea
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I've read every post on this thread carefully and with great fascination. Much respect to you guys.
chant
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whoa, that's more than i could manage! some of them are MASSIVE! respect to you Andrea!
'thia
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:)hi:) i've had the same trouble getting the discussion on screne.. happy birthday timihim!!!! have a great time in france!!!! take care pioden.. i hope all is well!! (:peace:)
'thia
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:)hi again:) i am venturing back into the discussion, tentatively, feeling less alone in my thoughts/feelings/confusions:) although many points may have been missed, a strong reality has been hit upon.. that is that most still see dyslexia as a disability.. the only way we can do things our way is through disability acts, special education allowances, etc.. but with these allowances come ignorance (based on noneducation, not meant in the insulting sense), prejudice based on fear of what is not understood, fear of that which is different.. in short, it is discrimination.. when i descibe the experiences my dyslexic son has at school, the first assumption of the listener is that i am speaking of racism, because that is what it smacks of.. i am in fact speaking of the failure to meet him where he is, the insistence upon changing him and/or sequestering him because they have not yet found a way to include him in the mainstream which is comfortable for all concerned.. but dyslexia is not a true disability.. it is a normal mindset which happens to be present in a statistical minority.. but the thing i've been thinking about most is how einstein believed in sixth sense.. he believed there is more to reality than meets the eye (or the ear, nose, tongue, fingertips).. we discussed how some learn best visually, auditorially, kinetically... i have found in my own experience, (and whether this is due to dyslexia or not i don't know) that i learn best through the sixth sense.. by nature, my best lessons have been those that were fun to learn, or the painful lessons.. in other words, those with emotional significance are those that stick with me.. perhaps this is why the recent misunderstanding occurred.. although i humbly admit i cannot claim to read everything correctly when i try to read between the lines, my point remains that that is how i naturally look for information, not through the five senses but through emotion.. perhaps that is why i am starting to feel like i could explain things in intellectual terms til i'm blue in the face but it won't sink in until it touches the heart.. i assume that only because that is how i myself tend to operate.. i guess my challenge to myself and others is that we redefine logic.. some would say, if you see logic through emotion, it is not true logic.. most want to draw a line between logic and emotion.. if that line exists for me at all it is very thin and very shakey.. and i feel that logic should encompass not only knowledge, but imagination.. einstein said "imagination is more important than knowledge.." i agree with him, but am open to other beliefs as well.. i would be content with a compromise in which others could concede that imagination is at least AS important as knowledge if not agreeing that it is more so.. the bottom line is, when different viewpoint are being explored, this requires an open mind.. for myself personally, openning my mind means i must also have an open heart.. this leaves me feeling vulnerable and easily hurt.. therefore, as this has been quite a thought provoking discussion, it has consequently caused me to become ultrasensitive if not mellodramatic:) and timihim makes a very good point, that each individual is different.. dyslexia does not define an individual.. it is one of many aspects of a whole person.. though we may have that one aspect in common, we can be as different as any other two randomly selected individuals.. that is why i try to clarify that i speak for myself, not all dyslexics.. but when i start sensing discrimination, i start feeling myself rally towards the united/untied mindset and i begin saying "we" but it is really just me:) i think, though, that the experience of discrimination based on ignorance is indeed something that we all share, as any minority group shares.. i look forward to a day when civil rights improve in this area, as it continues to improve in others.. we have a long way to go in either case.. perhaps this is what accounts for the chip on my shoulder (among other things).. but i am trying to fight it.. they do say that what does not make us bitter serves to make us better.. thanx for letting me stick around:) i do want to become better:) (that is to say i want to be a better person; dyslexia needs no cure..)
'thia
Anonymous's picture
p.s. i am not trying to set up separate camps.. i am just speaking of how hard i have worked to feel included in the existing camp and asking other members of the same camp to offer the same willingness towards trying to understand and accept diversity and variability.. what needs to be understood above all is that many have spent a lifetime being told that it is not ok to be themselves and must conform to the majority.. i have done so to the best of my ability and not without sacrificing a big piece of who i am.. does it really ask too much that others take a step out of their comfort zone when the one making the request has done so on a constant basis every day of her life for three decades and counting? maybe it does ask too much.. i don't know anymore.. (:peace:)
pioden
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'thia ...... there is one distinct problem with this kind of communication as you can't see the friendly face so easy .... you can't see the body, hand and eye content of the other person .... we have to go by the written words and not the actions ...... but then again it always takes time when you new to any place ... take it easy ...... here's a viritual welcome hug {{{{ ok (mind you it looks more like set false teeth set out to eat you sorry not sure how to do a viritual hug but have one from me anyway ok) there is ever present tendency to mis - interpret what we read (funny really when you think about it ).... we (dyslexic's)are prepared to defend our point of view due to the lack of knowledge that there is about dyslexic and the mis -understanding of what it means to people that goes with the territory .... we have a place to set this record right ..... I know only too well the pressures that we place upon ourselves and how easy it is not to be able to laugh at ourselves ... as well as join in laughter with other .... but to join in takes time ..... you've brought with you a high level of enlightment for many who use this site of that I am sure and when more than one vocie speaks of the same experiences it makes that reality easier for other's to graps and to see that it is not a personal isolated thing but a shared experinces that many may wish to avoid but can't because we're standing up and saying hey we're here too you know and we're not going away go to the home page and start your own abc .... put your words here let people read your poetry let them understand sorry for misspell words only my spelling dictionary just disintergrated in my hands .... it's that well used and getting old and tatty anyone got a replacement ?
pioden
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Ely whitely as to the signs wow what a good job you do I can only sing your praises and really really really mean it no sarcasim or anything else ........ My Library has now got fantasic colour backed signs a different colour per sections for instance History blue literature red ect ect so that you can find where you going real easy ..... I have trouble with notices it a real bane ..... when you go into a cafe where the menu's up on the wall ..... it might as well be written in another lanuage for all it's worth .... Some dyslexic use colour perspective sheets over the page... not sure on the low down but I do know it stops the letters form jumping ...... my sister wears pink lenses in her glasses it helps her .... yet I don't have that problem but I do wonder whether without people such as ourselves standing up and taking the flack whether you'd be doing these notices .... also I am aware that dyslexia is connected to a specific gene group and that they fall into the same gene group that cause Downs syndrom ....... and the rare disorder Neuro fibrioma (I think that's how you spell it )... NF .... my sister was 17 when she died of the fatal form of this disabilitating illness ...... the fibro was in the main canal to the brain stem .... it took her six months to die ..... she too was dylseixc ...... all are inherited disorders ..... all of which are part of our everyday world ..... all of which fight for support ......not segration but understanding and understanding can only be gained by knowledge and knowledge can only be got through people like us telling you what's it's like ! No sympath required just action ......understanding and agreement to meet half way ..... we are not special cases .... we are just ordinary people say " hey do you know this .... I think you should know " Dyslexic is not easily seen is often hidden and greatly misunderstood !
'thia
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:)thank you very much pioden..sincerely..more than words:) i don't wish to set myself aside by seeing dyslexia as a subculture in and of itself.. yet others have set me/us aside and i/we are just trying to find our way back in to society as a whole where i/we belong as surely as anyone else.. although dyslexia may have neurological origins, i personally choose not to see it as a disorder or disability, simply a difference.. there are as many talents to be found as there are struggles.. there seems to be something ironic happening in regards to dyslexia.. more is becoming known about it, yet less tolerence is given.. more specifically, in education, they did not know much about dyslexia when i was in school.. but teachers were more accepting of differences and more willing to give credit for alternative approaches.. for instance, if i bombed a history test because i couldn't remember names or the order of events (or misread 1912 as 1921), i could draw a sketch of a specific battle and the teacher would admire my effort and initiative and pass me.. today's standards are strict and do not bend.. if you bomb a history test, you bomb history, period.. a student must do things by the book and there are no exceptions.. those who have difficulty doing it by the book are considered special ed, but even then, the goal is not to meet that student where he is, it is to try to "fix" him or "help him conform".. most teachers would recommend chemically induced compliance (meds) rather than to try to find a teaching strategie that meets his learning needs.. and so we exist in a society where we are becoming more enlightened but yet at the same time we are taking a backwards step from accepting differences.. it was suggested that my son may need to earn a certificate of attentance, rather than a hs diploma, because of his difficulty with linear structure/standards.. this same son has a genius IQ.. so i still have to think there is something wrong with the picture when a certified genius is not given the opportunity to earn his diploma unless an infuriated mom fights for his rights.. and this protective streak is a major reason why i so easily get my ire up on this particular subject.. but i think i do need to step back and get to know folks before i jump to conclusions about intentions.. this evening after work, i will try to make time to visit the home page and set myself up, and maybe lurk awhile before jumping in.. thanks for the friendly advice on that pioden:) i do appreciate your insight and sensitivity:)
'thia
Anonymous's picture
OOPS!!!!!! BIG APPOLOGIES TO KARL!!!! i was just rereading some posts and he said somebody needs help to set up a board for dyslexics.. when i read it the first time, i thought he said somebody needs to help set up a board for dyslexics.. i thought he was implying that we needed to start our own board aside from the general public board.. that is where much of this debate originated.. but it was somebody else, a dyslexic somebody, who was looking for support and was wanting to set up a board and needed help to do so.. i suggested dyslexia.com, the davis dyslexia-the-gift site.. just wanted to say karl, great big SORRY for the misunderstanding.. yet this is a case in point of how misunderstandings can so easily occur.. by the fact that the words "to" and "help" became transposed when i read them, a whole different meaning was taken than what was intended.. :)<
Pretentious, moi?
Anonymous's picture
yawn...
pioden
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'thia... have just read your poem .... see it didn't hurt ..... and your words are so very true ...... we all live with some form of trepidation .... your poem shows this well ..... I use to put my whole foot in and find myself in a right mess .... now I tend to just edge my way in ...... well sometimes .... As to dyslexic setting themselves up as a subculture ... I think it's being the other way ... like most excluded groups ..... we've never got together before and really talked about it ..... we opening doors and need to push them wide before we all realise that these differences are quite natural just that we've all treaded(educated) as clones ..... Educators have been suffering from the same problem as society the need to ensure that it cuts its cost's to meet our pocket and meet our so called needs at the lost to those who do not conform ..... we're put into little boxes and expected to all meet the same target ..... we all read things in the same way ..... we all apeak in the same way ..... tush .... If you listen to the radio today you will here this over and over again ..... the costs to the tax payer .... the cost ...... the cost ..... you can't really put a cost on what we're losing because it might just make you realise that we're not all trades people that we're human and therefore different! What is a typical person? what's is normal? .... who is normal? I've put my IQ test sheet in the bin ... it scared the life out of me ....... besides I see it as measuring my ability only at that point of time ...... and not a judge of what I could and cannot do .... to be honest I think it puts pressure on you that's unnecessary ..... I'm just an ordinary person and I'm constantly learning new things ...... and I can't stand expectations ..... and that's what that puts on you ...... unneeded pressure ..... bin it as soon as you can allow your son to be your 'son' ...... he will grow with your love .... your understanding ..... keep an open mind ..... give your son one and throw that "IQ build up your esteem paper" in the bin ..... he can achieve and will in his own time at his own pace ..... "time" is the problem for a dyslexic not ability !
skydolphin
Anonymous's picture
It makes you wonder why we perform anchors, Why our mouth is dry when we try to speak, When we try so hard to follow through, When really, achievement increases in the void. this is not dyslexic! this is your personal style! who told you you are not understood?
skydolphin
Anonymous's picture
The figment in consciousness, the letters of my name very nice poem timihim! this line is full of meaning! bravo!
timihim
Anonymous's picture
Thank-you skydolphin but the point is … you say it is not dyslexic because you understand it, but in the same sentence imply that to be dyslexic is something negative. I am not into being subversive, trying to flip over dichotomising obligations, I am proposing a consciousness that is intermitted with a particular history that is, in one sense dyslexic. I am supposing that there is a particular phenomenon that can be tapped into that can be recorded as dyslexic. It isn’t an esoteric medium it is available to all – understood by both lexics and dyslexics – but I am proposing that it has visionary tendencies rather than literal/linear/lexic ones … If that is boring for you Oh! Pretentious one I am sorry but I think dyslexia is a much unresolved issue for many people, especially the venerable i.e. children in schools, being coached into believing dyslexia is a negative phenomenon. I am interested the principles of otherness … how I am dyslexic because I am not lexic … and what I think are that these two things dwell within each other. In other words, someone who has perfect lexic ability is able to tap into the consciousnesses of someone who doesn’t and there are boundaries that we can assert to define for one another. But ultimately to transgress through these is a space which is purported and that exists within kindness and the eloquence of communication. And that is what poetry is about isn’t it? Connecting, not at the level of words or sense but in a human(ist) sense … we write and read and communicate on the principle that something is removed and transformed into someone else’s imagination. So that is why I think there is something virtuous about a dyslexic medium and it goes beyond the tenaciousness of simple binary opposition swapping … goes beyond unique style. Though the compliment made me buzz … so thanx again
'thia
Anonymous's picture
hi pioden:) thanx:) yes, i too have learned the wisdom in not diving in head first.. learned the wisdom, but have i learned the lesson? not completely? i'm impulsive by nature.. biting my tongue is not a strength of mine:) also i see what you are saying.. i don't try to come across with an "us vs. them" attitude, but our shared experiences are a common thread that can't be denied, and the experiences themselves set us aside.. what i mean is our experiences make us who we are, so there is naturally a bit of a sectioning off that occurs.. as in those that have experienced what i speak of and therefore can relate to it, and those who have had a different experience.. it is not a competition, though, about which of these two groups are better than the other, because both are equal.. it is not a battle between the two.. it is just each speaking their mind and trying to have their voices heard.. perhaps some may seem defensive or argumentative because they by nature are more passionate in how they express themselves, but for myself, when i get emotional it simply means i feel strongly about something, doesn't mean i am angry or trying to start a fight, as it may seem to those who don't know me.. that is why your advice was good, to let others get to know me:) i'll find more poetry to add to my first attempt:) but i totally hear what you are saying.. we did not choose to become a group which is set aside from others.. we are the victims of segregation.. it helps tremendously to discover we are not alone in this, and it is natural to rally together in a misery-loves-company sort of way, but also in the hopes that our voice is more likely to be heard if it becomes a chorus instead of an off-key solo.. you have good advice in regards to my son too.. at home dyslexia is not even an issue.. we are just who we are and whether we're dyslexic or not is not even talked about, unless he encounters a frustration i can relate to to which i can say "ben there, dun that, wanna borrrow my t-shirt?" but there is so much more to him than what his reading/thinking style happens to be, as there is more to me.. at home, he is not dyslexic.. i just call him by name, and i am just mom.. i only mention that he is dyslexic (or that i am) in contexts such as this where i am trying to describe the "dyslexic experience" to those who may be interested in an inside perspective.. and for school i must mention it because the only way to have him treated somewhat equally is to accept labels which open doors.. they had no clue of how they were destroying him, how much damage they were doing, would not take my word for it, would not change their ways.. therefore i had to have a private evaluation done so that treating him with understanding, respect, and fairness became "doctor's orders" rather than just the plea of a protective mom.. that is why i find myself on a soapbox more often than not, is because fairness and respect is a god given right.. a parent should not have to threaten a law suit to obtain it for her child.. yet that is the point i was pushed to because he buckled under the academic pressure, as i tried to warn them he would if they did not change their approach.. now they are supportive of him, better late than never, but it was not without a fight.. and though the battle is won, the immediate concern is still the daily question of whether or not he can bring himself to get out of bed and face the day.. very sad to see what they've done to him, but even sadder are those students who are literally suicidal before anyone takes notice to what they're going through, let alone realizes that the boxes they're being forced into is what creates the problem to begin with.. yes, time.... that is all he needs, all anyone needs, and in the meantime to have his effort acknowledged and not be accused of laziness, not trying, etc.. he is making an extreme effort to get a handle on the world of words.. once he does that, he will catch up.. they accuse him of not caring, not wanting to better himself, not wanting to learn.. at home he reads the dictionary for fun and is self-taught at computer programming.. i challenge to ask themselves if this sounds like someone with no thirst for knowledgement or desire towards self improvement? but you hit the nail on the head.. they do not want to see him as an individual.. they just want to find the box they think he should fit into and try to force him into it.. they do not seem to have the time or the money to see students as individuals anymore.. yet they always seem to find the funds for new football uniforms or the time for pep rallies.. i guess i just can't relate to their priorities, so my life as a parent has become a need to remind others of their legal obligations and becoming a b!tch about making sure they follow through.. i didn't use to be a b!tch, i swear.. but again, our experiences make us who we are:) (:peace:)
pioden
Anonymous's picture
As a mam myself I know just where your coming from .... having had the experince of having a son put into a speical needs class only to find himself been bullied by those with behavioural problems ..... the journey we have taken has been so long and bad ..... it led my son tring to commit the worse sin .... take his own life .... he's lucky I'm a fighter and wouldn't let go ...... it's the other side of the bargin we never chose to take due to the myths and lack of understand about dyslexia .... they reckon that to cover the whole of Wales there's so few speical needs teachers who know how to teach Dylsexic kids and yet 1 - 5 kids have some form of dyslexia ..... byut even less is known about the way it can and does effect people lives ... the unreported and unheard voices of the child who can't cope My son sings and plays the guitar ...... self taught ..... he's just had his first stage debu in a professional Panto .... good things always come when your prepared to wait and be patient ... he still suffers from low self esteem and finds it hard to take praise .... The best thing of all was to rub the nose of one of his X head teachers into it .... he was never allowed to particapte in school plays or various other things ..... he was basically excluded from education and the other things that surround school life can you imagin the face of that head teacher when he met him after the show .... he hadn't realised that he had been watching one of his own pupils on stage due to the makeup ! This was get your own back big style .... my son tells me that his face was bright red from embarresment when he was showed him the show photos that they put up in the Theatre foya and there was my son on stage ..... never once did they help nor encourage him in this and to get there he has done it all by himself .... so much for education ... they didn't even acknowledge his gifts when he was there so my son has decided that he will never acknowledge them ..... the infant, the junior or the high school that he attended if he should make it as he says ..... schooling for him was punishment not enjoyment ...... but this you will know possible from you own similar experiences ..... strange is it not ....... you are most definatly not alone .... our experience most definatly make us who we are ......
pioden
Anonymous's picture
for writer's of childrens books ...... perhaps you should realise that the enjoyment of your work is not reaching the children who need you the most ..... think about what we've said ..... this is your bread and butter and the poeple who teach kids to read beside that of the parents are reducing your audiance .... More to the point ....... the more children who are helped to discover reading and it's joys .... the more they will read as adults .....
Primate
Anonymous's picture
Someone's been reading their dictionary then.

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