Is Labour Buggered?

With every year that passes the appalling Maggie Thatcher recedes further into legend, David Cameron looks and sounds sensible and moderate and I wonder why on earth I ever voted for a party which could be so supine when the Americans come making demands. The economy's done reasonably well but I don't think that will save Labour next time, unless they kick Tony out pretty sharpish.

They are still, perhaps, though, the lesser of 2 evils, no? The only problem with voting for a party in opposition is that it's easy to make promises when you aren't in power... :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

Levy looks a little like Arvin Sloan from “Alias” – which might explain one or two things…? :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

The funding thing is a massive embarassment but you may of noticed that the Tories aren't quite as keen on the investigation as you might expect - the SNP, who don't nominate people to the House of Lords, called in the police - and there's good reasons for that. Labour, the Tories and even the cuddly Lib Dems all have a litany of intimate relationships with their very rich members of the House of Lords that are profoundly inappropriate in a democracy. It might help if people became lawmakers through a system of election on the basis of one person, one vote. I'm sure someone suggested that a few years ago. Unfortunately, the prime minister hasn't wanted to give up any of his huge powers of patronage and is now getting his reward. It's worth remembering, though, that the Tories were happy with a system where people got into the House of Lords on the basis of who their dad was.

I think the whole British voting system is buggered, and needs a serious overhaul. That will end this riduculous situation, at least in part.

The British voting system... the American voting system... the Iraqi voting system (probably)... :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

Yes, let's go back to dictatorships. At least then no-one can complain that the person in charge isn't the one they voted for...

Nail on the head, AG!! :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

As David points out, all the political partys indulge in cash for something or other. It really only hits the papers when it's the party in power that's caught out. it won't make a damn of difference to anyone apart from maybe a hiccup at the next election. Most sensible people cast their vote according to their political beliefs, not whether or not they like the current incumbent. Actually, that's crap, they don't, and that's really part of the problem in politics.

Party politics has become pretty much irrelevant. Socialism has become a dirty word. And Tony's teeth are too big. :-) * P * :-) ( Read my blog! - www.oddcourgette.blogspot.com )

I sincerely hope labour ARE finsihed. They're an effing disgrace. The preening vain arrogant Blair and the thick fat useless Prescott. But then I think all politicians should be driven off a cliff into the sea.

Yes, but then they would be eternal feminist martyrs, like Thelma and Louise! And that just would not do... *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

And what, exactly, is wrong with feminist martyrs, eh? If feminist martyrs didn't exist, women wouldn't now have the right to vote for Labour! "preening vain arrogant Blair"; what a great description! Bet *he* don't think like that!

Morning, AG! Nowt wrong with feminist martyrs per se, I just don't think it would be right for all politicians to become feminist martyrs - specifically in the Thelma and Louise vein (or should I say "vain"...? (...sorry...)). *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

I doubt Two-shag Prescott could *ever* be termed a feminist martyr.

_I_ am a feminist martyr, not that I want to brag or anything.

And for what aspects of feminism have you martyred yourself, Dr. Jekyll?

I have martyred myself for the cause of the French Feminists, mainly for Cixous, who said "Censor the body and you censor breath and speech at the same time. Write yourself. Your body must be heard." So I have made my body LOUD, with a bang.

By 'censoring the body', does that mean not farting in public?

I think it maybe means not writing with breast milk.

Oh come on, AG, I'm sure the Right Hon. Mr Prescott has burned his bra with the best of 'em! (...BTW, why aren't Labour MP's called "Left Hon."?... & why aren't MP's in Newcastle and thereabouts called "Reet Hon."?... Hmm?...) >>> I think it maybe means not writing with breast milk. ...Like... ew, dude!! *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

Could be that 'censoring the body' is either learning to control your body-language or limiting yourself to ideaologically sound tatoos.

Seems to me that Labour have been 'buggered' for a while but it's ironic that it is 'New Labour' that has buggered them... buggered by Blair.

Mind you it is worth considering how much barmier Bush might have been without Blair's influence. Certainly, Al Jazerra might have fared badly without Tony. I also got a sense of Blair wanting to help with the crisis in Lebanon but being frustrated by Bush and his reliance on his old oil buddy condiLezza

Barmy Bush 'n' Buggerin' Blair! (sorry, couldn't resist) *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

I love it Pepsoid :O) Barmy Bush 'n' Buggerin' Blair That's the B-team - what a pair! The greatest Christians anywhere. A safer world their simple prayer. Might is right and all is fair. They bring you war because they care! They bomb for Jesus - so best beware. Or you'll soon be dead or in despair. For love is not what it used to be. Now it's a reason for democracy. Bush and Blair know you can't be good. If the CIA don't run your 'hood :O)

Brilliant!! "They bomb for Jesus..." Inspired and accurate. With the bullets of Love and the missiles of Compassion I shouldn't wonder. And I woudn't mind them being martyrs, because martyrs by definition are dead.

The Ballad of Barmy Bush 'n' Buggery Blair!! :-) :-O ;-) *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

Aug 16th 2005: Condoleezza Rice says of Iraq "We are witnessing democracy at work", while it is quietly admitted that Iraq may well become an Islamic republic - perhaps she should just have said "Everything is going well - trust me I'm a doctor..." July 24th 2006: Less than a year on and the new Iraqi Prime Minister has learned a lot about democracy from the US & UK. He pointed out today after a meeting with Mr Blair that the majority of voters in the US & UK supported an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon yet their democratically elected leaders (Bush & Blair) total ignored their people's wishes. It's encouraging that he has noticed in such a short time what at least half the American electorate and many of the English never noticed. In a Democracy you do whatever you have to do, promise whatever you need to promise, to get elected and then once you are you in power you can do whatever you like... until a few months before the next election.

Indeed! It never ceases to amaze me, the short-term memory of many voters... *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

while I think its true that people have (selective) short term memory with regard to elections, I also think its true that there is a kind of learned helplessness. People generally seem to think 'there's no point', 'nothing will change whatever you do", 'they'e all the same', 'its the best we can expect so just put up with it' etc etc. Weary resignation. This may help to explain why more people now don't vote than people who do. (UK, and as far as I know the USA as well). I don't vote and may never do so again. However, people should take heart and stop swallowing the propaganda that tells them a non vote is a wasted vote etc etc and begin to realise the opposite is true: that not voting is the most powerful thing that you can do with your vote. When people abstain from voting in large numbers,as they now are, it frightens the life out of politicians, as they see their legitimacy fading away. At a certain point, we could force the buggers to do what we actually want, not what they have decided. Maybe then we could live in a society that is organised for the good of the people that live in it, and not for the benefit of the politicians. (and of course the corporations and wealthy individuals that bankroll them)

I don't think non-voters bother any party in particular (though I also believe that ALL votes count, whether cast or not). On the assumption (for the sake of argumaent) that non-voters are drawn equally from all partys, the outcome of an election would be totally unchanged from that of a 100% turn-out. All that crap that slimey spouts about 'majority of voters' supporting this or that is typical of the propaganda he dribbles to support his arguments. The truth is, nobody knows what the figures are, one way or the other, either here in the UK or in the USA, simply because there hasn't been a vote on it. It may be that opposers of government policy on the middle east do the most shouting, but that indicates absolutely nothing.

I think that non-voters, in great enough quantities, are bound to unsettle the politicians. They are an unknown quantity... who knows where their allegiances lie and when they might suddenly decide to all vote for, I dunno, The Green Party or something? I count myself amongst their numbers. I can't claim it to be a particularly conscientious decision, I just literally don't know who to vote for. There is so little disparity between, at least, the main 2 UK parties at the moment, that I don't know what they stand for any more. What happened to Socialism? When did it become a dirty word? And when do the politicians on either side listen to us anyway? I suspect there are more insidious and less obviously effective ways of "changing the world" than through the ballot box... *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

"You're in a pickle, no doubt about it" - mississippi (The Real World)

Hehehe! Oh you're a card... :-) *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

I do my best.

I don't think Pepsoid's in a pickle at all, Missi, and actually identify with what he's written here. There are some areas where there is a clear 'right/wrong' but mostly 'politics' are as murky and confused as the (group of) people they spring from. In fact, the less reflective (and able to contain their own contradictions) the politics, the more univocal and potentially dangerous they are. In my view this applies to beliefs, groups, and individuals. Basically - admitting one's lack of surety is probably a sign of psychological strength, and if more people were able to do it we might have more chance of reaching conclusions together, in the groups (of all sizes) within which our lives are played out.

Thank you for clarifying my confusion, Galfreda! Yes, I think the crux of co-operation and the ultimate peace that could potentially spring from it is the strength to admit that we might be wrong. If more people in power admitted they might be wrong, perhaps there would be fewer conviction-backed conflicts...? *** pepsoid *** [[[ " It is a pickle, no doubt about it " - The Oracle (The Matrix) ]]]

Well that all sounds very plausible but it's actually a load of old tosh. The majority of conflicts are started by maniacs that eye someone else's property/land with envious eyes. They don't give a dogs dick about the niceties of life.