Bridging the Gap (Discussions with Atheists)
By mark_yelland-brown
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Lately I’ve been wondering why people call themselves Atheists rather than Agnostic.
I was under the impression that technically to be an Atheist you had to have had absolute proof that God doesn’t exist and therefore could say with confidence, “There, that’s why I don’t believe in God”
The obvious response to that is: that is what Atheists do, they don’t believe in God because of various reasons, normally because of the state of our world and main stream religion saying there is God who is good, and that Science has disproved God etc.
But I always thought that Agnostics with their stance of not having enough evidence to really believe in God, or just not being sure enough to say they believed in God was just, more honest. Many Agnostics admit they couldn’t actually deny the existence of a God but didn’t see any real reason to commit to believing.
I’ve been making comments on Atheist's sites lately, mainly because so many are appearing on my Face Book page. The reason why I respond is usually due to what I might see as an obvious flaw in an assertion they might be making and I would want to put a Christian perspective or correct what I feel maybe an obvious or not so obvious error.
In doing this I’ve been amazed at the confidence of some of these people and also sometimes plain ignorance. In terms of confidence, perhaps `Chris` might say “Well obviously religion is just a myth, there is no God”. That’s a relatively polite assertion, some can be scathing and foul in their anger at people who are `stupid` enough to believe in God.
And I see this guy at the keyboard sharing this incredibly important truth! Wow, there’s I, a person of faith for 22 years and there is no God, I should be shattered, but weirdly, I’m not.
I suppose it’s about authority and experience , I have the experience of walking down a road of faith, with all the miraculous proof, revelation, intimate relationship with another person, supernaturally greater than me, other. And the authority of a book that has been my guide the whole time I’ve been a Christian, authority and experience.
I can’t deny the light I’ve seen, so `Chris’s` assertion is madness to me and scarily arrogant.
The Problem
Because of my experience of `discussions` with Atheists, I would never, now, use any of the above to argue my point as a Christian, it would be completely pointless. This particular argument is too polarised. It’s as if both sides are so entrenched in their position of being `right` that no one is really going to change their mind, and that’s why feelings can run so high. People get really angry.
I get mostly angry at lazy insults and stupid unthought out arguments for a point of view, including Christian!!
I get `their` position, I became a Christian at 27, I had discovered Spirituality at about 19, due to a Paradigm shift; a very sudden change of heart and mind that shook any confidence in one’s own particular beliefs and opinions. New Age Spirituality is more acceptable because it’s obviously more inclusive, whereas as Christianity is far more exclusive in its belief that Jesus is the only way to God, and is alive and in fact God, mad right? Or so I thought!
The more outspoken you are in your belief or unbelief the more embarrassing it is when you have a change of heart.
I had a first hand, subjective, supernatural, in the literal sense, experience where I suddenly `knew` God existed. I also received a `Spiritual` gift of `tongues` or `glossolalia`; Biblically , in the New Testament, this is a `gift` of the Holy Spirit that has recently, in the last 100 years or more appeared again, especially amongst Pentacostalists and Charismatic Christians. Well, I was neither; I called out to God on my own in a room I was staying in, and suddenly had the ability to speak in a language that was foreign to me, that was fluent, had a wide vocabulary and seem to come straight from the heart, (Please see my piece: `Making Sense of a Born Again Experience`) :
I also had the strange revelation that there was a reason to be good and a reason to love, I just `knew` it , totally subjective but as powerful as any `truth` I had previously , strongly, believed.
My problem is that I know what it’s like to be strongly against the God of the bible, I was very outspokenly against `Him`!
But you can’t legislate for an experience like that. The easy, comfortable response is that I was deluded, but that doesn’t stand up to the subsequent experience of the next 22 years of walking a particular path that non believers haven’t walked, that is the path of Faith.
A few things have become clear that prove to me that Spirituality cannot be `naturally` experienced, it comes from a different paradigm and can only be personally understood `first hand` Also, with total hindsight, the irrelevance to most unbelievers of the need to explore the possibility of God being real, which I now believe is itself proof of a `supernatural` blindness!
We are far longer dead than alive so surely our eternal destination would be of the utmost importance, but it’s something that is not only irrelevant to most people but a subject that mostly is an embarrassment, and not really an appropriate topic within `polite` society, which again, with hindsight, is foolish in the extreme!
My stance when debating with Atheists is to focus on the possibility of a sudden complete heart and mind change, and also challenge them, if the need arises, of the actual sane and sensible evidence for the existence of God. There is far more great material out there than the average believer even knows about.
Finally, I think there are many reasons why someone chooses to decide to call themselves an Atheist.
It could be in response to someone not only believing in a God but also explaining that because there is a God we have a certain responsibility. Now human nature being as it is the non believer may think that who is that person to tell me how I should be living my life?! And that in itself seems arrogant and completely inappropriate. Also background, another usual reason why someone may choose to be an Atheist is a negative experience of growing up in a household where `God` was portrayed as angry and unloving, or in any other way that shows Him in a bad light. There the transcendent nature of God is hidden behind the small minded, petty nature of a God that is just like any other human creep!
The heart of the matter is that people who have decided there is no God, have many times come across a `God` that is not worth believing in anyway and I actually think it’s a good thing that got rid of that `smaller` construct!
There is also the condition of the world around them, if there is a God how could He let so many awful things happen?
Before I even attempt to give an answer to that huge question, I would want to ask this question: Why do you imagine that Christians haven’t battled with the same question? And if they have they’re still Christians, the question must have been satisfactorily answered by some of them!!
My own answer to the question of suffering is contained in my knowledge and experience of an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ over 22 years; I `know` God is good. I believe that there was a `fall` of man in whatever way you choose to see it, This planet is broken, people are a mixture of unbelievable good and potentially horrific bad. Something happened. The overall Christian message of reconciliation gives a solution to the fall, and the eventual consummation of love and restitution, that’s my personal and current answer.
Wars of religion apparently prove that a belief in God is a bad thing. I don’t see that I see selfish ambition, greed for power and wealth under the banner of `religion` God being used as an excuse. That’s not in the teaching of the Jesus I know. The abuses of Religion by men have nothing to do with a faith in God, in fact a faith in God puts man’s fallen nature without the reality of God’s love firmly into contrast!
Chairman Mao and Stalin could easily be used as an argument against Atheism, I presume.
After my `arguments` I have a disclaimer, you cannot prove God, in the end it’s faith, informed by subjective experience, explained and reinforced by the Word of God, it really is!
And this `experience` can only be used as an explanation, not proof.
The best argument is Fruit. The fruit of a life lived in God.
Finally!!!
My corner of Faith is that of a Christian, I don't have any authority to speak for any other Faith.
If atheists are not my brothers then I’m not manifesting the love of the God I believe in. The difference between me and an atheist is the simple fact that I’ve actually encountered someone I believe to be God. I feel the need to share that as much as you want to share your position of non belief. There needs to be more love exhibited.
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I think the term atheists
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"I was under the impression
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