I live in a rabid tory constituency, so my labour vote would be in Andrew's eyes, a waste of time. But that isn't how I see it at all. All the 'non-voters' and 'spoilers' count the same as the positive voters. To say 'I won't vote because they're ALL wankers' is tantamount to voting for the favourite, simply because it ISN'T a vote against him/her.
In the scenario of a 40% turnout, the other 60% are kidding themselves if they think they haven't 'voted', because they have, so they might as well apply themselves a little more responsibly and make a positive vote for the lesser of the evils as they see them.
I really and deeply believe that personal integrity is at stake here.
You can choose your internet friends but you can't always choose your neighbours.
Ideology's dead??????
I don't think the victims of 9/11 would agree.
Also - left-wing extremism is still something to watch for and to be wise to. Never take anything at face value. This makes interesting reading - how an extreme left-wing group can infiltrate major organisations appearing to support right-wing sentiments.
Unfettered technology is the answer to everything according to the former Revolutionary Communist Party who lost a major court case some years ago which led to the demise of their publication Living Marxism that used to be sold on street corners in a town near you regularly in the late 80s/early 90s. They metamorphosed into the 'Institute of Ideas' (!) and 'Spiked'.
It all makes such sensible reading (love the suit Mick) until you get the agenda.
As I've said before on here - Charles Clarke is my MP and he has voted for basically everything I don't believe in over the last parliament.
For the first time in my life I am uncertain of what to do in voting matters...
It's a bit of a bugger.
I should have said dying Emma... I agree that there are still large pockets in the world where this festers but the general trend as far as states and peoples are concerned is toward pluralism... Idealism can never triumph over pragmatism in the long run... by definition, as things change unpredictably at times, you need to be open minded to move quicker. The more flexible systems will always survive as they can adapt quicker, its just a commonsensical law of nature.
It is why our major politicans/parties are all fighting over the middle ground... It is why the management of the economy will continue to be the major factor at every election. It is why people care less, whether something is privately or publicly owned and more so that it can be shown to be delivering the goods...
It is increasingly about grown up politics which is why the Conservatives will be thrashed with their silly campaign...
The links are interesting, but it shows that they have in practice to shed aspects of their previous idealogies... it is silly to rail on about globalisation using the internet.
I think even if you're a natural conservative voter and you hate Tony Blair, you'd have to heave a sigh of relief that Howard isn't going to get in. The "Are you thinking what we're thinking" campaign just makes me go, no and thank Christ for that.
Although I'm delighted to learn that they nicked the slogan from kids TV favourite "Bananas in Pyjamas"!
Who was it who said we should have a vote against option?
I've always liked the idea of voting by being handed a rifle and taking aim at cardboard replicas of the politicians you least want to get in. The vote goes to the least scarred cardboard replica, and then *it* gets given the seat in place of the politician it represents.
Of course, it would disadvantage those who can't aim straight.
'Are you thinking what we're thinking?'
Jesus Christ - NO I'M NOT AND NEVER WILL BE AND PLEASE STOP SAYING THINGS THAT MAKE PEOPLE SCARED AND HATE EACH OTHER AND IN FACT, GET OUT OF MY FACE YOU UNHAPPY AND UNCHARITABLE HUMAN BEINGS.
Or just a plain 'no' would probably do.
I don't want the conservatives to win cos they are awful right now but who else can I vote for? I can't vote for parties that have had any associations with socialist values. I wish Maggie were still here.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking Banana 1?
I'm in a safe Tory seat with no chance for tactical voting, so it's Civil Disobedience for me.
For the rest of the campaign I'm taking 11 items through the "Ten items or less" checkout at Tescos.
[%sig%]
Hox! that would lead to anarchy. Who knows where it will all end? You may as well just go on the street pimping your crack addicted grandmother to finance your expensive tastes in slippers and snuff.
Of course Bourgass couldn't actually have been sent back where he came from, because of international law but it suits the Tories and the rabid press to say otherwise. Not a lot of press commentary on the fact that the trial spent 20 million quid to convict a guy who'd already pleaded guilty and got life imprisonment for murder and to fail to convict the eight other defendants. Brilliant use of public money that.
If you live in Folkestone, sod what I said about not voting, vote Lib-Dem. Apparently if the Labour supporters there go Lib-Dem, Howard will lose his seat. That's the best outcome this election could have. In fact, if you can, find a Labour voter in Folkestone you can vote swap with and ask them to vote Lib-Dem for you - everyone wins.
The best outcome in this election would be for everyone in Sedgefield to vote for Reg Keys whose 20-year-old son Tom was killed in Iraq. Reg is now standing against Blair.
I'm in a dilemma myself... I really LIKE my mp and he's *whispers* conservative. I've tried, but I like him. He works damned hard as well. I cant stand Tony oozegrinsmarm Blair, and I've ALWAYS voted labour. I think I'm on the verge of a breakdown.
*High pitched maniacal laugh*
interesting thing liana said about socialism.
which brand of socialism are you talking about?
do you mean the tony benn/neil kinnock/michael foot/jim callaghan type of socialism? the socialism that this country rejected at every opportunity?
do you mean the socialism that has che guevara posters on the wall? beatles in the charts? little red stars on a beret? jumpers for goalposts? hoary welshmen standing on a crate shouting slogans through a megaphone as busloads of cowering scabs (themselves also working class) turn up to the last few shifts down t'pit? do you mean the socialism of ben elton and germaine greer?
nostalgia for socialism. a new scent by calvin klein. it costs fifty quid a bottle, but it covers the pungent smell of hypocrisy.
Lianna is a Tory. Lianna is a Tory.
Actually, if I liked him, works hard for the town etc I'd vote for him. Thats Democracy innit. I don't hold with this tactical voting stuff. Vote for the person you think would represent your views/interests locally.
I am looking forward to the day when it will be all personalities and not parties. I mean most reasonable people have a spread of 'left/right' views, why should we still expect politicians to conform to the old class war style of politics?
That's part of the problem with the Party system, good local candidates get swept away with the dross whenever the national mood changes. Perhaps the election of a few more independents would free backbench MPs to stand up against the Party whips, instead of being "lobby fodder" for the Government.
A fair point - Labour had to concentrate on getting elected, because there's no point having great politics on the opposition bench. Perhaps some people feel that they've not actually built on their electoral success, popularity and huge majority in Parliament to actually do a lot.
They have managed the economy very well, credit where its due, but you don't really look to Labour to manage the economy, you're after a bit of social equality. If Maggie Thatcher really was that bad, and the Tory rule of 17 years was so dreadful, shouldn't they have had loads of work to do to set matters right? Instead of which, they've run out of steam after seven years (if they hadn't been in Iraq for the last 18 months it would have been very visible that there aren't actually any ideas left in this Government)
Labour under Tony Blair are safe, solid and eminently electable, which is great for the Labour party, but doesn't seem to do much for anyone else. They are a country mile better than the only realistic opposition - perhaps a better Tory party might have pushed Labour into being a more dynamic and enterprising government.
You can be socialist without being calamituous though - Nye Bevin springs to mind.
>> ...They have managed the economy very well... <<
This is really the important bit, Andrew.
Without a stable economy there is no point in even having further policies because the country would be bankrupt.
As much as I despise greasy Brown (and I do) his methods have stabilised the economy, something thatcher's lot never did. She spent seventeen years asset stripping this nation of everything we owned that was of value.
I find Gerry's quote from Howard's TV appearance highly ironic as Howard is the grandson of an illegal immigrant.
oh right. so those bustards in the labour party have betrayed us all by daring to function economically as some kind of cheap gimmick, a facile attempt to address economic inequality through long-term goals. what a horrible bunch of monsters. if i had a gun, i'd shoot them all. we didn't go through the cod war to put up with this kind of malarkey. death to blair. death to brown. death to labour. give us back our socialism. give us back our michael foot with his walking stick. it's about time blair realised that he can't go on pi$$ing on the hopes of "real" socialists anymore.
You're a very angry fellow, aren't you, Bingo?
It's very important to manage the economy, but it's something that once you're doing it, the electorate take for granted. I actually think Blair's government has been the most competent in my lifetime, but I don't much care for the Clinton concept of "winning the election is the only thing that matters" - you should want to win the election, of course, but you should want to win it so that you can deliver your policies, not just so that you can be in power. I don't think Labour are quite there yet, but I think the third time might well be that way around.
You are right Bingo... If you compare this government with previous ones, and what is on offer as an alternative, there is very little to complain about really....
...unless perhaps you were against the war, but with signs of democracy and people power in the Middle east showing up barely 2 years after the invasion, perhaps even these people may concede there was an equally moral case for taking those risks... If this process has been brought forward by say 10 years due to the war, many more lives/livelihoods will have been saved than were sacrificed in the war.
Of course we must never let politicans off the hook, they start believing their own infallibility... Justifiable criticism is good, even necessary, but when it comes to the crunch, there can be only one government returned in May.
"do you mean the tony benn/neil kinnock/michael foot/jim callaghan type of socialism? the socialism that this country rejected at every opportunity?"
Yes, the country rejected the socialism of Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Jim Callaghan at every opportunity... except for the FOUR times it elected governments that had all of them as prominent ministers (1964, 1966 and twice in 1974).
That's not to say their policies are the right ones now. The world's changed and the Labour Party's changed with it. In my view, some of these changes have been right and some haven't.
From a personal point of view, amongst other things, I support higher taxes to pay for free public services and welfare benefits. I support public ownership of utilities such water, gas, electricity, telecommunications and public transport. I support strong trade unions. Under some circumstances, I support deficit spending to stimulate the economy.
That probably makes me a socialist. I don't see why that's hypocritical. It's a series of honest opinions. Other people have different opinions. That's democracy.
'Mp's surgeries suck', you slap me again and i'll break your legs.
I would like, a 'socialist style' free education for my kids, thanks. Like Blair said they could have. I wont be voting labour, because they're lying *****
I'd like the public owned companes to be owned by the public again.
So yeah, that kind of socialist govt.
Yes. My main direct experience of the RCP in action was when they stood in Hornsey and Wood Green in the 1992 election.
The set up a stall outside Wood Green library and got people to put on rubber masks of the three main party leaders, then got other people to pelt them with wet sponges.
They also handed out red, blue and yellow coloured toilet roll proclaiming that after the election all the parties would 'shit all over you'.
They got 97 votes.
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