Jail or Jesus

Well, it didn't start badly. I've always been a sucker for a pretty face and nice bod...

Getting religion can change people. One of the most anti-social hooligan vandals at my old school is now a Church of England vicar.

ANYway, back to the subject. The warden interviewed in the YJ article said that prisoners themselves said that meditation and/or yoga classes were beneficial to them, as they gave the inmates a way to self-examine in a non-judgmental way. I suppose the only downside to making the inmates go to church is that many churches don't encourage self-examination, only the 'thou shalt not' train of thought...

Sorry, Milton. Threads crossed on the ether.

I've seen many drug addicts find Jesus and then lose it and turn right back to drugs again. Personally, I think convicts are better served cleaning highways and making license plates.

Hrm. How about a two-pronged effort: give them job skills and -also- a sense of their part in something greater. I think most criminals feel they don't have much to lose; life is a cheap grab-it-and-run. If they had some kind of spiritual centering, would life seem so cheap, I wonder?

The basic flaw is that by forcing them to attend church, you're forcing them to embrace a belief in imaginary things, which of course does nothing to teach them about the reality of how their actions affect society. Making them chant and sing about an imaginary entitiy seems rather pointless and a waste of effort, not to mention a good way to undermine the authority of the judicial system.

It depends, I suppose, on whether or not they believe in God in the first place. If they have some belief system, maybe it would serve to remind them (and I understood from the article that they actually have a choice of whether or not to attend). If they were atheists, they may well prefer jail. It's a dumb idea in this particular Kentuckian incarnation, but I see the intention behind it as a potentially good option to just throwing away the key. Some people -can- be rehabilitated. The ones who can't? I have some other options....

It's a well intentioned alternative, but ill conceived, which if I were offered in lieu of jail time I would suddenly become religious for what ever duration was required to get me by. An effort to rehabilitate through Jesus. Jesus saves! A-Men brother. I've found Jesus! (at least until my next little run-in with the law)

<> Since the majority of the American electorate seem to have voted for a president who claims to talk to this 'imaginary entitiy' every day then it doesn't seem too perverse to imagine there must be some beneficial effect of prayer - at least as to making seriously shady villains more acceptable in the eyes of the average Yank.

I wouldn't know. I'm not your average Yank.

Like I said, it's a complete waste of time. Denver is right, anyone would rather turn up and recite crap a couple of times a week than do some time in the pen. Slimeys opinion doesn't count cos he's a part-time religious fanatic.

The problem with the article is that it did not say what the nature of the offence was. There's a big difference between someone arrested for dealing and someone arrested for drunk driving or possession of a small quantity of pot, for example. For those whose primarly 'offense' was using, rather than dealing, it is common practice to offer a 30 day rehab or 30 days in jail, or for lesser offenses, attendance at a certain number of AA or NA meetings over a period of months. Attending church would be useless because it does not address the nature of their problem. The rehab or AA/NA option can and does work, though the success rate is small. The success rate of jail, however, is essentially zero. For dealers and the like, church would be a joke, as well as useless. Better to send them to jail.

Better to send them to yoga and meditation, so they can figure out how to fill the empty core inside them; if life is full and satisfying, people don't commit crimes.

Errrr.... AG: you are right about a few, but so very very wrong about many, I am sorry to say!

Ignorance of the way of God is the source of all suffering, Jasper. True, for those who don't believe that they are a part of a greater whole, the whole concept would be wasted. But why not give them that option? Not all criminals, even hardened ones, are above redemption.

There was nothing Orthodox about 'Vald The Impaler' whatsoever........and he had ever right to despise the church for its deception! But then he was real, whereas The Nazerene was nothing more than some Artisan's fabrication on bequest of the Roman Catholic Church in its crusade for power for 2000 years. If only Atilla The Hun simply cut off all their heads instead of allowing himself to be bought off with a sack of gold to spare Venice by the Pope of the day...damn!

Grrrr...I simply refuse to talk to you when start with all this God shit, AG! But you know that, which is why you used it......chicken shit!

<> Personally I wouldn't disagree with that statement Ag, but I can't really see what it has to do with the topic. I'm not sure that modern Christianity knows as much about the ways of God as a crooked politician - let alone has any chance of inspiring it in drunks - at least pick a religion that's not based on drinking... this is my blood. What they really need is a good 'spin' around Scarborough beach :o)

Christ, you make me sick Slimey.

Well, when I use the word 'God' I don't actually mean it in the anthropomorphic sense that most people attach to it. If you prefer, I could just as easily use 'the Tao' or 'the Way' or 'the Force' or 'Spirit'. It's just easier to use 'God', although this always inspires some debate! For those who are so inclined, moving away from the trinity-based religious concepts toward rather more inward-looking or gnostic practices isn't a bad thing; hence my recommendation of yoga or meditation as ways to self-discover. This programme takes place in Kentucky; you can bet your bottom dollar that most of the people were raised in one of the god-fearing, goin'-to-hell branches of Christianity: Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, etc. Getting them back in touch with it wouldn't be such a stretch. -Some- of them would actually benefit, so my argument is, why not have the programme? Of course, I take Missi's caution that many people would choose this option and take the piss, but not all.

Yeah, I knew what you meant, Ag, but I was trying to point out that the only 'God' they were likely to be introduced to was precisely the 'one of the god-fearing, goin'-to-hell branches of Christianity.' that you mention in your last post. Since in the vast majority of cases there will be nothing new in the 'experience' then it seems unlikely that it could help. Where as, I do think that exposure to a different kind of religion might work and I was suggesting that one that discouraged, rather than encouraged, drinking might be a lot better bet.

Most of the hellfire n damnation religions abhor drinking! Maybe Buddhism or something gentler and more moderate would be appropriate. It's not enough to tell people, 'don't drink'; they have to find a way to find the root of the emptiness that they then fill up with drugs/drinking/crime. Hmm. Maybe hypnosis would work...

Probably me getting mixed up then, Ag. I was brought up as a Roman Catholic and we were taught that wine turned into the blood of Christ during Communion... I thought this idea was from the Last Supper and common to Christianity but it maybe just RC's. Many of my friends used to say I'm just off to 'church' when they meant they were going to the pub.

That's why some of the States in the South are still 'dry' states: you can't buy alcohol on Sundays. The Bible-thumpers have thus decreed. No drinking. No dancing. No sex. No rock n roll. And people actually buy it. Hard to believe. What miserable lives...

Transubstantiation: the change of the substance of the Eucharistic elements — bread and wine — into the body and blood of Jesus. It does seem to be a Roman Catholic dogma which probably stems from John (6-54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you...

I'm sure Jesus meant it as a symbolic gesture of commitment to the Path. He used a lot of metaphor in his teachings, which of course got taken a little too literally by less evolved souls...

I just used to think it was a pity Jesus wasn't drinking milk at the time :o)

Well, some cultures like to drink blood, but I sure wouldn't. I don't care whose blood it is, either... :-P

That reminds me - it seems that Dracula landed in Whitby not Scarborough. I'm still not certain and the Count was unavailable for comment...

The Count was Russian Orthodox, most likely, not Roman Catholic...;-)

*little smiley thing*

I read in Yoga Journal that they are teaching yoga and meditation practice to inmates in Northern California. I think maybe finding the missing spiritual element may be helpful to people who are straying off the path...

Alternative sentencing is popular - no doubt it is with the drug and alcohol offenders offered the option instead of going to jail or rehab! "I don't think there's a church-state issue, because it's not mandatory and I say worship services instead of church," said District Judge Michael Caperton, 50, a devout Christian. Do pop concerts count?

They are lucky, the judge could be really nasty and sentence them to spend a weekend with my x-wife.

:o)

A complete waste of time. The only people of any use to organisations like the church, are volunteers. The junkies will accept the offer and laugh all the way out the courtroom door. Denver, don't make suggestions about spending time with your ex-wife, some here would relish it.

I doubt it! A weekend locked in a cage with a pack of rabid wombats would be more enjoyable.

RD, you married her. There must be something good you can find to say: I'm sure you wouldn't have fallen in love with a total monster, unless it was a 3-beer-beauty-shotgun-wedding kinda love. Well, was it? ;-)