Cherrypickers?

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Cherrypickers?

Does anybody other than abc staff know who actually does the cherrypicking? The reason I ask is because I've read a good few of the pieces selected and confess to being a little puzzled about some of them. Is there some aspect of creative writing that I am just too dumb to appreciate or is it a case of the kings new clothes? It's alright passing yourself off as an intellectual art critic but in the end it is still just one persons opinion. Perhaps it's me that's taking things too seriously!

Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Come on Carly, a little bit of humility wouldn't go amiss!
Robert
Anonymous's picture
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH *wants to award cherries to last 3 posters for funniest sequence of messages yet*
ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
robert? ... please answer the following ... how many cherries do you have? did you deserve them? have you filled in the pedestal application form?
Robert
Anonymous's picture
*stands irritatingly upon the pedestal of self-effacement, choking on humble cherry pie*
jennifer
Anonymous's picture
Auntie Jackie, No, thankfully I have not been behind those doors - the poem just came to me - it was one of those that just seem to write themselves - and about a situation that I hope never to find myself in. As a 'writer', thankyou for your comment about the feeling I put into the poem - I really did write it with my heart and you have confirmed that that the emotion in it hits the mark I was aiming for. Jx p.s. Oh - Mississippi! you minx!!
ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
where did you get that pie from? morrisons?
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
I suppose you do all know what is being referred to in America when they talk about cherries?
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Dear sweet Jennifer, were you in 'Gone with the wind' ?
Perry Chicker
Anonymous's picture
Do they mean small red berries with pips in them, Guru Sippi?
jennifer
Anonymous's picture
What do you mean was I in 'Gone with the wind'?? The film or the book? And what on earth are you on about?? Jx
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Just being silly. In my imagination 'Oh Mississippi' sounded like something from 'Gone with the wind'. You know, one of those southern belles blushing with embarrassment when the man she secretly desires steals a kiss.
alison
Anonymous's picture
mississippi ... you really need to get out more! fond regards x x x
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
As it happens Alison I agree with you but it was only meant to be humourous, I'm not really a sad bastard! Well not completely sad!
ivory aka alison
Anonymous's picture
incidentally i think i need to get out more also ....
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Oh my god, you're at it too! How many people do you want to be?
alison aka ivory
Anonymous's picture
hehehehehe
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
For the next two days I'm going to use false names, and I'll see how much confusion I can cause!
Ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
So who's the bitch that's been using my name then?
ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
the ivoryfishbone above is an impostor ... i am the REAL ivoryfishbone ... do not accept any pale imitations ...
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
NO!
Ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
No, no,no. I'm the real Fishyivorybone!
auntie jackie
Anonymous's picture
Fishy, definitely Fishy. Perhaps this discussion board should be renamed FISHY TALES. Can I just say though that I am on the tail of Missivoryauntie. Beware, as I have a proverbial sting in my tail!!!!!!!
Missivoryauntie
Anonymous's picture
Blows raspberries!
Mark
Anonymous's picture
Also, I just can't understand the choices!
Antoinette
Anonymous's picture
I don't understand the criteria for cherries either. Some work has been rated highly and isn't cherried, whilst other low rated ones are. I have had a few cherry picked now and it always gives me a buzz. At least there is one person on the planet besides my other half that thinks my work is readable. At the end of the day we can only do our best. I believe we should write for ourselves and the pleasure it gives us, not for the complements of others.
cassieopeia
Anonymous's picture
I agree i must also say i read a few of the stories of the day and couldn't understand those choices either although when i get cherry picked it's 'yay me someone likes my work' i guess they have to take alot into acount but i would like to know what they think makes a good story/poem and indeed who THEY are!!
Carly Svamvour
Anonymous's picture
I'm a Canadian - the thing about the 'cherry' went out of style years ago - I rarely hear that mentioned now. Maybe in America ... don't know. About picking the cherries and the rates they get - the system sucks royally - the cherry picked pieces are picked because THEY'RE GOOD PIECES! Unfortunately, the system doesn't account for people who will deliberately 'underrate' the postings. The fact that they've got very low rates, means that mean-minded people went in there and rated them low. It works the other way around too - bad work - good ratings - that tells me only one thing - and what does the writer get out of having people hit him/her up for good rates when they haven't really done a good job? The energy that goes into to this process could be well spent in learning to write well. There happens to be an author on this site who has only two poems posted - they are both lousy poems - they need work - the author has a lot of friends - 'mutual click-admiration society' - therefore has a lot of rates - all of them 'good'. That's very nice - but the thing is, that particular author is not getting honest ratings - that particular author should spend more time reading the poetry instead of hanging out in the forums making silly remarks along with the other 'kiddies'. You are right - the editor doesn't get to the point on this question - she's too polite to get to the point - I'll get to the point - if you don't write good stuff, you're not going to get selected by the editors. Now you might be pissed off at my comments here - but you just keep in mind that what goes around comes around - it's a law of the universe. I'll take you seriously when you start taking yourself seriously.
tony cook
Anonymous's picture
A response to the above from the Chief Exec: Of course it's all subjective - so is any form of selection in the creative world. However I will get Diana Bird, the Editor of the site and the person who is finally responsible for the cherry picking along with her team of sub editors, to respond to your queries. She's got the flu this week so you will have to be a tad patient but she will respond next week! In the meantime keep on sending in your wonderful pieces and who knows, you might get cherry picked!
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Tony, thank you for taking the time to respond to my message and I look forward to reading Diana's comments, however I would hate you or anybody else to think that the reason for my original message was disappointment on my part at not being selected for the ubiquitous cherry. My point is that the editors claim the cherry is the 'Oscar' for writing excellence. Who exactly are these people, what qualifications do they have to make such judgements, what are the academic criteria applied and how come they so often seem to be at odds with the voting of lesser mortals? Somewhere else on the site it says that these are peoples dreams; tread carefully on them, perhaps it would be better if the editors were non-commital about the quality or otherwise of submissions and published instead a popsong style chart based on readers awards, this would at least preserve the sites impartiallity and maybe make potential contributors less hesitant about submitting their work. I hope all this doesn't sound like the ramblings of a dissident, I am just curious about the machinations of the site, which incidentally I think is a lovely way of allowing people to expose their innermost thoughts anonymously to the world at large. Personally I have no ambition or need to have the approval or otherwise of anybody, I am one of those people who know the worth or otherwise of my own work, mostly it's otherwise!
Brad Rohus
Anonymous's picture
I am A new kid on the block, so haven't read much. I can say though that I have generally enjoyed the Cherrys more than the non Cherrys. It probably will save me time in the long run. About Diana Bird offering a response, I can't wait. I do wonder, though how you catch the flu working at a website. I love the whole idea of being among the first to get to read a new budding master at work before the masses, so keep up the good work all...
James C.
Anonymous's picture
Never heard of a computer virus,Brad???
Moya
Anonymous's picture
With regards to the suggestion that 'cherry-picking' be based on number of times read, under the present system there seems to be nothing to prevent someone spending all day hitting their own work thus artificially inflating the figures. Not that I am suggesting that anyone here would resort to such underhand tricks, but the temptation would be there.
Diana Bird, Edi...
Anonymous's picture
Thank you for the interesting discussion about the cherry picking process and your patience in waiting for my reply. Just for the record I had flu that had nothing to do with the technology we use. We have three editors who cherry-pick their favourite stories and poems. We do this so readers have somewhere to start. We also want to highlight the work we love. The editors are diverse individuals, from different backgrounds, in an attempt to reflect the diversity of our website. Our other staff, including myself, spend time every day browsing the work and cherry-picking those they enjoy. I get emails from readers every day recommending work that I try to incorporate in the cherry-picking I do. We do want to give users their say too and we have several projects in the pipeline that will help. We are developing ways to highlight those pieces that reader’s rate highly. 'Writers of the week' are asked to recommend others work and we will soon have the facility where everyone can post their recommendations. We will also have a system that will allow you to review other people’s work. At the moment you can get an idea of which pieces get our readers clicking by viewing stories and poems by 'times read'. The writers are what has made this site what it is. We welcome suggestions and recommendations on the pieces you loved reading. You can email me or post your thoughts here. I hope this sheds some light on the process and gives you an idea of future developments. If not let me know!
Robert
Anonymous's picture
carly, at risk of jeopardising my kiddie label (and i DO hope that i was one of the kiddies you had in mind)…i will muster all due seriousness to reply to your comments so…a cherry = good writing? no. a cherry = writing liked by one editor. bad work, good ratings = one thing? yes. it means that other people like different things to you. as for “if you don’t write good stuff it won’t get selected by the editors”, i think even the editors themselves would disagree, and they have indicated as much elsewhere on these boards maybe mississippi does fulfil a useful function on this site after all
Roy Bateman
Anonymous's picture
There's no easy answer to this one, is there? Certainly, like everyone else, I've encountered some stunning clunkers among the supposedly elevated ranks of the cherry-picked, but I can't envisage a better system of selection than the present one. To amplify what others have said, no other system is free from potential manipulation. Anyone can artificially boost their "hits" total, and I have grave suspicions about some of the entries on the "Most read" chart. Some aren't exactly highly-rated; many have attracted very few readers' votes. Some gain a terrific number of "hits" in a very short space of time for no logical reason. All very odd, eh? So, what about rating by reader's scoring? Sorry - anyone can fix their score by arranging for a friend or family member to vote several times. Register again under a different name, and you can do it yourself! Who's to know? Would every single site user be totally honest all the time - even one feeling aggrieved at their inability to gain their supposed fair share of those succulent cherries? Anyway, fear not, chums. Help is at hand: careful analysis of cherry-picked entries and the current bestseller list has provided me with the ideal winning tale. Ready? 1. That all-important title. Call it "My dreadful/horrific/whimsical childhood in.." Choose your location with care - Scotland is good, Ireland is better. A deprived, lonely childhood is always good for stirring in bucketfuls of pathos: Dickens understood this, and he didn't starve, did he? Countless others have mined the same rich seam since, so you'll be in good company. 2. Vital ingredients, in no particular order: rain, child abuse (any variety, the more the better), rain, poverty, more rain, religious bigotry (absolutely essential, this) and yet more rain. Anyone who's sat through "Angela's Ashes" will know that there are grim outposts of the Celtic Fringe which suffer a permanent monsoon-type climate. It doesn't matter if the locals are born with gills, this is your place. If you actually grew up cheerful in Chesterfield, get that imagination working overtime! 3. Storyline. Am I joking? If you simply stop, preferably teasingly in mid-sentence, you'll be able to carry on under another title and collect yet another juicy reward! Better still, try sending exactly the same thing in under another title - you might get lucky. So, now you know. Let's see those stories rolling in and those cherries popping up! In fact, I shall be jolly disappointed if this message doesn't get an honorary cherry. Keep laughing, folks.
Mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Oh god, what have I started? Now I know why my wife doesn't understand me, she's not retarded after all! The problem lies with ME, no one seems to understand me. Author Moya thinks I'm advocating a 'times read' list when in fact I actually said 'readers awards' meaning the star rating system. Since reading Moya's message I tried to vote for one of my own poems to test the feaseability of 'fixing ' the star rating (just the one star you understand) and was pleasantly surprised to find myself taken to task for being cheeky. On returning to the fray I find that Roy Batemen had addressed this possibility in my abscence. Whilst his suggestion regarding using friends/relatives or re-registering are probably workable who is going to let a friend/relative know that they are a cheat? Personally I find the whole idea of cheating reprehensible and quite frankly, bloody pathetic, and in any case why do so many people think it's important to have a damn cherry in the first place? (I for one would sooner have fifty fellow authors give me high star ratings than have the approval of three or four editors, in the event I don't have either so it 's not important.) Sorry I digress. Having read Diana's comments with interest I find that even she appears to duck the issues raised. She says that the other cherry pickers (who are neither named or have their qualifications as arbiters of quality listed) select 'their favourite' pieces but as I said before their choices don't seem to coincide with that of the general readers. Surely this must indicate one of two things, either the cherrypickers are far more intellectual (or far less) than the rest of us or we are pretty tasteless. She also says that 'writers of the week' are asked for their recommendations but who picks the writers of the week? Do I smell a conspiracy here? OK, I'll call a halt to my opinions before I upset somebody. I can assure you all it was not my intention to appear troublesome and in fact to a large degree it's been a bit tongue in cheek. Having said that I do love a bit of lively discussion, don't you?
IFBone
Anonymous's picture
gawd are we really rehashing all this cherries/who picks em / stars who gives em ... stuff? .. i thought we had BEEN through all this ... at length ... i rarely rate anything .. if i see something i like i will usually mail the writer and tell them directly ... occasionally i have been startled into awarding a one star but not often ... god ... now i am rehashing ... heavens ....
Chris Wright
Anonymous's picture
The Last Word On Cherries, or Beware Of The Cherries ('Cos I'm sure they're gonna get you, yeah!) I was keen on cherries once, so I went cherry-picking and promptly fell off the ladder. I didn't half hurt my flippin' knee, I can tell you. Whilst I was convalescing under that very same tree, the girl next to me gorged herself on that plump, red fruit and almost choked to death on a stone. What with all the panic and squashed cherries, a beautiful summers day (greedy for cherries) ended resembling a scene from Pulp Fiction, which served to remind me that, as Robert Pursig (I think) once said: "Be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it!!" By the way, if anyone would like to read any of my eclectic mix of poems (all sans cherries) and offer me some constructive critiscm (or unbelievebly sychophantic praise, gawd bless yer) I would be most grateful. Thanks to ABCtales for providing this platform from which we can rise above the cynics.
anonymous grass
Anonymous's picture
I know fort a fact one person who voted themselves into the most clicked on. And they voted themselves top marks from their work computer under a different name. And they offered to do the same for me, which was very kind. I said no because I'd rather know what people really think about my stuff (** or a tactful blank for some cherrypicked), but the reason they did it for their own work is because they DESPERATELY want to get published and that seemed the best way to be noticed. I don't see how any way that bypasses an anonymous and impartial panel could avoid that sort of thing happening. On average I think I've had higher stars for stuff not cherrypicked than the other way round (not saying much) About times read: I write mine straight onto the site (laziness and not trusting the moods of my computer) and know that some of my stuff looks like it's been read loads of times when it's just me hacking away at it. Also going straight from SUBMIT is the easiest way to see if anyone else has read/rated something. Could there be a way of cutting out adding a "read" to your own stuff when you're logged in? My very favourite poem on the whole site is Ivoryfisbone's Thursday (if it's Tuesday I'm sorry. I know it begins with a T) which has no cherry. I wish she's write some more HINT HINT
David St Bonk
Anonymous's picture
Somewhere in my life I know there is a cherry, it's better than an apple or other kinds of berries. It makes me sad to think, that all my work's in vain, when I do not get a cherry, there, against my name. So come on ABC, do not take me for granted, I'm a budding writer, who's ready and enchanted, with your web-site. (surely this is worth a cherry, it does ryhme) P.S I like the sound of that Mississippi, I bet he's got muscles!
ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
anonymous grass ... you have quite made me blush ... still anyway i have taken your hint ...
stormy_petrel
Anonymous's picture
Haven't joined in this b4. All the points I would make have been better put by others many times over. Roy Bateman's post - tongue in cheek maybe - best reflects my thoughts. I too have read tales like those he describes. I often suspect that it is the subject matter that the piece is picked for and not necessarily because it is representative of the best writing on this site. If there is a fault anywhere it lies with the definition of a cherry. Suggestions on a postcard please. An afterthought: Perhaps different fruits could be used depending on the quality of the work. I was going to invent a list but I'm tired tonight. Over to you guys. ps Root vegetables for the worst of writing? Fondest regards, Potato head
sweetman
Anonymous's picture
Dear me, the number of people who are getting worked up over this! I must admit I have never scored one of these elusive cherries (guess I`ll have to submit a story first, really...) but the system seems quite simple to me. Compare it if you will to any book released, as follows - Cherry = good review from media critics. Number of hits = people who bought it including all those sucked in by advertising, price promotions etc etc. Star rating = number of people who bought it and actually had a strong opinion on it. These things do not NECESSARILY have to be correlate strongly. Learning to take these things in one`s stride is part of developing a thick skin, something everyone needs if they want to get published... :-)
Jennifer Pickup
Anonymous's picture
I have been reading stories on this site for months now, but only last week did I finally submit some of my own work. I had a story and a poem cherrypicked immediately - before any of the public had read them - so cherrypicking is not based on the number of hits!! Hello to everyone - keep up the good work - it's wonderful to be able to read work by so many talented writers and to have such access to it. Jennifer
ivoryfishbone
Anonymous's picture
sweetman ... i like your explanation ... but let's face it ... it feels good to get a cherry ... like getting a gold star on your homework ... and after all ... the editors on here, same as the editors on any literary mag ... make their choices ... it would be interesting to see some guest editors and their choices eh? ... the thing that makes this whole ABC thing different is that the punters get the chance to make their input ...
Diana Bird, Editor
Anonymous's picture
Dear ivoryfishbone, I love your ideas about guest editors. We are going to have the option for users to recommend other writers work on their ABC set pages. But would anyone like to send me his or her recommendations and I will start a reader’s recommendations page? Thanks for all your comments, Diana Bird
Jennifer Pickup
Anonymous's picture
Dear Mississippi, I can assure you it's there- try searching for my stories "Passing Through" and "Love at First Sight" - also poems "The Girl" is my favourite of my own, written on Sunday. Right - I am off to look at some of your work... p.s. secret poster? Am wondering if you're being cheeky or just stirring??? Jx
auntie jackie
Anonymous's picture
Hi Jennifer, Welcome to this mad, mad forum. Mississippi stirring?? Never. I'm now off to find your work also. Bye. auntie jackie :>)
Jennifer
Anonymous's picture
Well - just read your Last Goodbye story, auntie_jackie - made me cry - beautiful. Oh - Mississippi - it is quite obvious from your two brilliant poems that you should be doing more posting of poems and less of discussions! N night Jx
auntie jackie
Anonymous's picture
Hi Jennifer, Found your work, and I am impressed. Well Done. It seems that from your poem Behind Closed Doors that you and I have been behind them together. In fact that was the title I had picked for the book that one day I will write. Need to pluck up the courage though, as it will be painful. I apologise if I'm wrong, but you wrote this poem with so much feeling and knowledge that I made the assumption. Anyway Jennifer, keep posting. Many thanks for your kind remarks about my story. auntie jackie :>)

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