the gothic culture

One old hippy right here radiodenver... Peace man.

you're right. Many, many 'goths' are young kids just trying to fit in, and are harmless. I'd rather bump into a goth chick in a dark alley than a chav bird!

I VELIEBE THAT IS A MISTAKE TO BLAME MUSIC OR CULTURE FOU CRAP THAT HAS LITLE OR NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Yet another murder chalked up to Marilyn Manson. Teenagers into satan, knives, and rock music are a dime a dozen. I wonder how many more murders are commited by football fans than by video game and rock music fans. This is cheap reactionary journalism. And was anyone else disturbed by the lack of evidence against this kid?

This is a subject of special interest to me, mainly because my own 15 year old son has become involved in a goth culture. I knew that some of these kids self harm. I told him that he obviously was not that stupid and with his intelligence he should be able to steer his friends away. Within a couple of months (he lives with my sister!) I hear that he too cut his own arm. The shock was complete, I can tell you. He was ashamed to tell me, and so was my sister, that is why it took 2 months. The thing is, he now see's just how many people truly love him, he is very bright too, and could go a long way in his life. A lot of these kids, as has been said above, are lost. Don't have any direction in their lives. I think the cutting thing, gives some sort of pleasure. They don't care about themselves. It is a Punk.....die young, stay pretty, sort of attitude. Unfortunately it is us adults who are to blame, for creating a lousy example of consumer greed/need! All our kids want is us to love them and show them the way to a more fulfilling, happier life imo. My lad still hangs with goths, but we know them now. And they know my boy has folk looking out for him, where ever he goes! Tai, with heart bleeding for the poor girl.

One really really sad case in America is that of a young lad called Beau Beasly...his parents refuse to accept their part in this tragic young man's suicide and blame Manson. I think it was wired who reported that they had tried to confiscate his marilyn posters and CDs which probably alienated him even more...he was suffering from bipolar and shot himself on Xmas eve 1998...he was only 12 years old! Marilyn Manson? Convenient scapegoat

It's called post hoc ergo propter hoc - after, therefore because of. I wonder what sort of music someone who is disturbed and capable of murder is likely to listen to? I would guess that they are more drawn to songs about alienation and frustration than boybands. You can't say that because someone who did something bad also did something else that the something else caused them to be bad. Human beings aren't as simple as that. In the Michael Moore film, Bowling for Columbine, Manson is one of the very few people who actually comes across as talking sense (I don't think Moore does, and the last sequence where he harangues an eighty year old man for believing something perfectly lawful is quite squirm-worthy). There was a lovely line in the last Art Brut single "And every single song, every single one said, We want our parents to worry about us, all we ever want is for our parents to worry about us"

Marylin Manson can't be blamed for this kind of thing. He is an entertainer, an artist of sorts, who holds a mirror up to society. Society thought it was much prettier than it really is and instead smashes the mirror and blames the reflection. It's so easy to blame MM when society is alienating people all of the time. We think we have difficult school groups here, but in America you really are branded into groups within school. Success is pummelled into you from day one. It ain't pretty. A problem does come when people take his tongue-in-cheek entertainment satire literally. I know people do. I lived in the same student flat as one, and he didn't get any of the humour whatsoever. He thought it was all real. Whether that is Manson's fault or not is debatable. I'm guessing he doesn't believe all (or even half) his fans are able to comprehend what or how is saying things. My old flatmate wallowed in self-flagelation and saying how crap the world was and eventually how crap I was (god he hated me, mostly because I wouldn't shag him). My car broke down in the middle of nowhere and only had one call left on my mobile. I rang him. He laughed and hung-up leaving me to walk 10 miles in the dark at 11 o clock at night to the nearest garage. When I got home I saw he'd sent emails to everyone saying how hilarious it was. Now, I'm not going to blame Marylin Manson for that. The bloke was just a c**k. (I hear he is a smart suited accountant these days).

there are still freaks and hippies!!!!

jfmf goth is not a religon

I don't find goths at all scary, in fact I think they're inclined to be sweet and in youth culture far more likely to be victims than aggressors. I also think Marilyn Manson is both remarkably funny and intelligent for someone who's supposed to be possessed by the devil, much rather him than the horrors of corporate America. And accountants ... well, they're just people who drift into the job because they've no talent for anything else. First cousins to auditors, of course.

If a builder (Fred West) commits murder, he's a murderer - you can't sensationalize construction workers! If a goth, or a pagan commit murder - there's a wealth of news there. I suppose it sells. ?

Kids look for a uniform a group to identify with. When I wasa wee lad of 17 there were far more choices, nowadays it does seem rather limited for the youth of today: punk, goth, chav, non-label. I used to go out with an SI-er and people who do SI are a bit fucked up to say the least. Myself I never saw the attraction. It all seemed so bloody pointless. Joe Strummer used to say "like trousers, like brain", and I think many kids of today have fuck all to believe in, they don't even believe in themselves. If they respected themselves more, and actually tried to make the best of what they had instead of being so nihilist then they would enjoy a better quality of life. Too much shit on TV, mindless vacuumed lives with no purpose. Give them something to believe in which isnt self destructive -- or to quote Paul Weller "what's the use in saying destroy?"

well goth aas you call it helped me when i was 18 till i was 25 i was goth and usaly goth is people who got picked and to rebel and act different to popular people

What ever happened to Hippies and Freaks?

Anyone remember doing this when they were ten on a computer? 10. PRINT "INFILITRATION STATION IS SKILL" 20 GOTO 10 Yeah, that was pretty funny when we were ten.

being goth should seriously be illegal marylin manson is almost like their god. im not against a harmless new religion but a religion that basically makes people more aleinated then they alrdy are? some of these people that start with following marylin manson start hailing satan and thats just wrong. a few are startign to do it at my school. if the government really cared they would put a stop to this goth bitch before it gets out of hand

sorry for the swear words and obvo all goth followers are not nasty pieces of shit ! sorry, it was thinking about what that piece of shit done and it heated the ol themometer !