The Bible

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The Bible

I’ve taken a ghost copy of Mark’s “Token Christian” thread to bed with me for the last few nights and scrolled through it in my dreams.

(I can already hear my mate, Mississippi, going, “Oh oh!”).

From what I understand, the Bible is known as the inspired word of God and lays a foundation for the Christian life. Correct?

Well check out Deuteronomy, the book of the Commandments (I don’t know why we say there’s only 10 – there’s hundreds). Deuteronomy 17: 3-5: says that if a Christian comes across a guy who, “Hath gone and served other Gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of Heaven, which I have not commanded. And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.”

Blimey! That’s a bit strong, isn’t it?

So if you’re chatting to a bloke at work who happens to mention he’s a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Witch, you’ve got to drag him home with you and stone him to death. Don’t try and convert him. Just stone him to death.

Forgiveness doesn’t really come into it, does it?

Deuteronomy 7: 1-2: “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, sevennations larger and stronger than you. And when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.”

Blimey! Not very Christian is it?

Deuteronomy 7: 16: “You must destroy all the peoples the Lord your God gives over to you. Do not look on them with pity.”

No wonder we live in such a violent society if our children are being taught stuff like this when they go to Sunday school.

I won’t quote all of Exodus 21 to you. Read it yourselves. But for the most part it’s all about slavery and how you should treat your slaves. There are parts in there about boring the slaves ear through with an aul (21: 6), which seems a bit rough to me.

And there’s also several references in Exodus 21 on how to deal with murderers. You simply put them to death. No life imprisonment. No 20 years. No seven years. No forgiveness. Just slot ‘em.

I could go on, but it’s getting late. I should make it clear here that I’m not anti-Christian. In fact I may well be a Christian myself in that I certainly believe in some sort of creator, and God seems as good a name as any for Her. I just feel that a large percentage of the Bible needs to be re-thought and appraised.

I will finish, though, by stating that whatever I believe is irrelevant anyway, because according to the Bible I’m not even allowed in a Christian church.

Deuteronomy 23: 2 “A bastard (yes it does use that word) shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. Even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.”

And as I’m third generation bastard (no puns please), that kind of excludes me, doesn’t it?

Mykle
Anonymous's picture
As to testing: Productive Pain (James - New Testament) Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does. The brother in humble circumstances ought to take pride in his high position. But the one who is rich should take pride in his low position, because he will pass away like a wild flower. For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich man will fade away even while he goes about his business. Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
Emily Dubberley
Anonymous's picture
There was that famous case of a printer who made a rather serious error when printing the Bible - all the 'Thou shalt cot's' were put in as 'Thou shalt's'... probably an urban myth but I found it amusing
Karl Wiggins
Anonymous's picture
I accept that these rules and regs were laid down for the people of the time. But isn't it about the Bible was given a complete re-write then, instead of claiming it as a foundation for the Christian way of life nowadays?
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
You are absolutely right Karl. Now if you can just talk God into it....
donignacio
Anonymous's picture
Ugh!
kurious oranj
Anonymous's picture
i think the second reason! baphomet is just another of these incarnations of the big man that we find in the dark ages, personifications as saint kinda. in the knights templar itself there are little subcults dedicated to various martyred members. the pope didnt like any other name for god so there was a lot of friction there, and ultimately the excuse for destroying the only real "defenders of the faith" i like calling the big man Dave myself
wearied
Anonymous's picture
Yup
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Wiggins, if you start anymore of these fucking bible classes I'm gonna put out a contract on you!
wearied
Anonymous's picture
Yup.
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
I think it was more about filthy lucre than religion Kurious. It's very difficult to believe that the Inquisition was about anything more than evil sactioning evil... but then I'm so pissed I can hardly type and I've smoked almost 10 cigs and I feel like a total hypocrite myself....
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Sorry Kurious! I've just realised that's what you said... I'd like a chat with you when I'm sober. Which really is most of the time. Do you know anything about the illuminati?
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Mississippi are you always so arrogant? Nobody forces you to read these threads! I expect you believe in free speech but only if it says what you want - about what you want. You should make a fine writer then - at least in your own opinion.
donignacio
Anonymous's picture
So hostile, Mykle!
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Perhaps donignacio. Although I thought it was fair comment! I think threatening to put a contract out on someone for searching for the truth brought out my 'righteous indignation'. Nobody is trying to tell Mississippi what to write or think but he should allow others the same courtesy. Other peoples thoughts and ideas can be inspiring and help us grow even if we are opposed to them. I think it was Voltaire who said - I might not agree with what you say but I'll die for the right for you to say it!
donignacio
Anonymous's picture
Well then, let it be known that I, donignacio, think that the Beatles's last album "Let it Be" is the shabbiest of them all, but contains some of their best songs. *Whew* I'm glad I got that off my chest.
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Mykle sweetheart, the comment was meant for Karl not you. Karl happens to be a friend who knows it was intended to make him laugh. I'm sorry if it offended you but I can assure you it was NOT intended to be offensive. Perhaps your 'righteous indignation' should be prefaced by 'self'!
donignacio
Anonymous's picture
Everyone is so mean! I'm going to hide!
Andrea
Anonymous's picture
Have to say, Mykle - you really ought to lighten up a bit - Missus meant no harm, I'm sure...
justyn_thyme
Anonymous's picture
*pours oil on troubled waters*
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
I'm very sorry Mississippi! OK! I did wonder if it was some form of joke but the 'fucking' and the heavy style made my think it was a form of bullying - I'm a sensitive soul (honest) :-) Since I was reacting to what I thought was a bullying threat - (I didn't really think you would put a contract out on him but the tone was very disturbing) - then the comments are no longer appropriate. No offense taken in the end I hope. I will just have to try and understand your perculiar vernacular. Is all the groaning and moaning part of the same joke or is that real?
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
By the way Missi - are these contrcts expensive? There are one or two people that.... :-)
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
It's ok Mykle, I'm not offended, on reflection I should have realised that somebody was going to misunderstand. Not everyone knows Karl and I are friends although he said as much in his opening post. The reason I used the 'F' word was because Karl has practically trademarked it in his posts and I am always amazed that he gets away with it. I used to get into a lot more trouble in the early days than I do now, and should remember that new members wouldn't necessarily understand my meaning. I have been told that since meeting me, others read my posts differently. I am honestly not a bully in any sense of the word, I'm a pussy cat really! I have been known to hold strong opinions at times though. Now about these contracts.......
stormy whether?
Anonymous's picture
is now a fucking thread? and can anyone join in or is it only for Mac users? *goes off to polish his incorrect PC*
PC49
Anonymous's picture
'ello 'ello 'ello, wot's all this then?
justyn_thyme
Anonymous's picture
Now that the waters are calm, we can all walk on them. I understand it is quite a short cut.:)))
stormy whether?
Anonymous's picture
ahh, if only PC69 had been on duty. that would have turned the thread around.
Karl Wiggins
Anonymous's picture
This has all brought up an interesting point, hasn't it? stuartwr spent a week and a half running a campaign of hatred against me and then claimed it was all tongue in cheek, expecting me to share in the joke. A joke is only funny if the other person is in on the gag. I wasn't and I am certain stuartwr meant every word. Mississippi, however, is a friend. And as such can say just about anything he likes about me because I would know him to be joking. Others might not, and Mykle I thank you for your concern. Mississippi and I have drank together and used the "F" word together on more than one occassion. And that gives him the permission to slate me. I did not, however, offer that same permission to stuartwr - and that's the difference. Now, off to start a few more biblical threads.
Stephen Gardiner
Anonymous's picture
And lo, while journeying on an ass to Damascus along the biblical thread, a great white light and a rushing wind appeared before Mykle and he fell to his knees...
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Thanks for clearing the situation up Karl & Missi. It seems I'm a little 'trigger happy' at the moment. Although I agree that where you have neen is more important to this life (especially for a writer) but the destination is crucial to the next. It's not really the journey but how the journey changes you that is important - and the YOU at the end of your journey IS the destination.
Vicky
Anonymous's picture
Deep stuff Myke. So have you missed me? I've been out of action for a while...and in the middle of a religious debate too.. Ah well...God works in mysterious ways...;)
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
I have missed you Vicky. I've not been well and I could have used a bit more banter to take my mind off feeling naff. Perhaps that's why I was a bit 'trigger happy' with Missi. If God is in us then we can we be Paradise? The old testament had a hard response to your new thread Vicky - an eye for an eye - and so he should die. I can't say if I agree but I'm sure the mother does.
Vicky
Anonymous's picture
I'm sorry you've not been well Mike. The OT might have said that but the NT says something different... ..... oh the confusion.
kurious oranj
Anonymous's picture
yee haw i hate lay theological debate with a passion. the old testament is *basically* a story in the later parts about a small group of persecuted people who had to kill others to survive. they said it was alright because their god told them to. god was like an older brother, he came round after school to pick up abraham and burn alive those who tried to nick his dinner money/slaves/pottage etc. one day abrahams brother fucked up, and i really mean fucked up, he got his brother's mates expelled from school and in a fit he flooded the entire world. after a bit, he thought he was being a bit evil and decided to calm down a bit. to later chroniclers he was known as jesus. three in one, see? the holy ghost didnt get around much because he frankly scared the bejeesus out of all the canaanites. jesus was a top bro, everyone wanted to hang with him, he was a generally nice guy. christian morality was based on him, not about what he said when he was god baphomet and everyone else who used to hang about with god got pissed off when he turned into a bit of a 'blouse and went off to raise families. the metatron started working as a barbershop trio. then philosophy comes along and then a very few people actually question why people have to be nice since it is by produce of a slave mentality. even then the Bible is a top repository for stories, some evolving over 4000 years so technically being as valid as greek mythology as an inviolable store of information for us poncy goatee-wearing writers and god's still a flipping hard bloke, so don't mess with him
Vicky
Anonymous's picture
Prove it
kurious oranj
Anonymous's picture
he's harder than *your* dad
stormy whether?
Anonymous's picture
uh oh. I can hear mykle's footsteps rushing to this thread like the Severn bore rushing to Bristol. or is that bristle?
wearied
Anonymous's picture
Dear Stormy Whether? You appear to have inserted the word "severn" superflously in your posting above.
Vicky
Anonymous's picture
karl, you're right there are more than 10 commandments... 613 to be precise. No I havn't read them all, but Judaism is big on numbers and they worked it out a long time ago. Not being funny, but I doubt if it mentions Christianinty any where in the OT, everything in there is supposed to pertain to the Jews. If you want to know how they manage to have friends of different religions without stoning them etc, I'd read the Mishnah...or talk to a Rabbi... p.s...Many of my friends from work are stoned on a regular basis
Vicky
Anonymous's picture
My dad's a @!#$...you're point is? p.s. Not speaking metaphoriaclly this time.
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Kurious: I thought Barphomet was the god of the Knights Templars and the reason they were persecuted and their leader Jack De Morney was burned at the stake - well either that or the Pope (French) and the French King were after all their loot and needed an excuse.
Don Ignacio
Anonymous's picture
Just be careful you're not using these quotes out of context. And what's printed in the New Testament lays the foundation of Christian life and it can null and void things that are in the Old. (Like pork!) Am I being trivial?
justyn_thyme
Anonymous's picture
The stuff about killing off one's enemies, killing murderes, etc may well have been the sensible thing to do at the time. These were little clusters of folks trying to stay alive. There was no properly constituted government like we think of today. It was a kill or be killed world. If you got into it with a neighboring village/tribe, they only way to ensure that they didn't kill you off was to kill them first. These were also very poor societies. They couldn't afford to keep people in prisons. The only reason this sounds cruel by our standards is that our society is so much wealthier and we can afford to be generous.
andrew pack
Anonymous's picture
Justyn is right - these were the rules at the time. If you read Old and New Testament beside each other, the God they're talking about is clearly a different deity (or at least one who has undergone a complete transformation in character). I suppose if you were Jewish in those days and believed in a God that was all-powerful AND looking out for his chosen people, you needed to do some mental juggling to explain why the Jews seemed to get oppressed and enslaved all the time without God butting in, hence the whole idea of God testing people's faith. This always seems an odd concept to me as it seems that late converts get a better deal than people who believed all their life and had to get tested. The importance of these rules are for when people say "Homosexuality is wrong, it says so in the Bible". As Clancy Wiggum says, "Yeah, the Bible says a lot of things". The Old Testament contained rules for its time, rules which were probably necessary to survive in the world as it was then.
Da Pope
Anonymous's picture
I'm currently writing 'Newteronomy', a guide to Trappissed (sic) beer. Now where's my Sherry Amour? Karl, you poor lost soul, I forgive you. And your altar-ego (sic) stuartw. Two er, souls in one body. Try getting out more. +++
Mykle
Anonymous's picture
Wearied: since my postings are not compulsory reading you can skip the rest. Andrew and Justyn are right about the violence of the times. The reason Moses lead his people around in circles for 40 years was so that he could toughen them up - lose their slave mentality - ready for the battle for The Promised Land. A bit like the Fremen from "Dune" without the worms.
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