Can men and women ever be "just good friends"

i knew he'd say that, Ari. teenage boys are always such fliers.

the three of mine are charmers - I'm expecting the normal phone calls from distressed female's - when eldest goes back on duty - he's got three weeks leave this time - that means three weeks of mischief and lots more calls for me afterwards I had one girl who made friends with daughter just to get near to him - I get on really well with this girl now - she's become a family friend even though there's nothing between her and Tell (eldest son) Apparently I am frightening - just being told so by daughter - thats put me in my place I can tell you

I have three kids now aged 25, 21 and 16. Oldest and youngest are female and the middle one isn't. They all get on well - despite the age gap, enormous differences in their achievements - eldest is very bright graduate just setting up her own business, the lad got 3 GCSEs is a ski instructor and chef and general traveller around the globe, the youngest is bright and exceptionally sporty. But it's the boy who is the glue in the relationship. He never contacts anyone but he's the peacemaker, the funny one, the laid back one and, above all, the one you'd go to for help, comfort and support. It's not because he's male, it's because he is who he is. The kids all have lots of real friends who are of the opposite sex - maybe because they have always seen my wife and I have those relationships.

I think we have to understand that, physically, we are capable of 'bumping uglies' with all members of opposite sex. For men, we have to see that there is no physical reason why we shouldn't have sex with, mothers, sisters, aunties, teachers, etc, etc, even Anne Widdicombe has the appropriate socket for our kind of lead. What we must, therefore, do is set out the rules. The very thought of sex with any of the above list is utterly repulsive. there are moral and emotional barriers to that kind of activity that need no explaination. Then there are less obvious members of the 'no go club' and this is where friends come in to it and it's here where the rules need setting out as they don't naturally occur without a second thought (as with your mother). It's when you don't do this clearly and accept that sex is a possibility you're consciously ruling out that you're in trouble. If you have the attitude that they're just a friend and it'll all work out in the wash, you don't put the case to yourself as to the pros and cons and next thing you're waking up, pissed, with your mates fiancee riding you back from cloud nine because she wasn't the kind of person you thought she was and she had misread the messages and you hadn't set the rules out from day one. (believe me, I know. What an engagement party THAT was). My lesson was that you can't saddle a horse that doesn't want to be ridden so the blame is with me for not setting myself some rules and getting drunk on cheap cider and flattering advances. MY POINT? well, accept that everyone you meet COULD be a sexual partner whether you're going to have sex with them or just be friends. Then you can really understand exactly why you're not going to have sex and you can form your relationship, platonic or otherwise, on those rules.

And did your mate every talk to you again, ely? Did the marriage happen? Loved your post - 'bumping uglies' will now enter my language! pip pip

A perspective: I used to belong to a group of almost exclusively blokes, with one or two girls who would hover at the edge as they were seeing one of our group. We were all very close to one another as close friends are. I introduced my girlfriend at the time but she didn't really fit in. I think in all she was scared of us. Then I caught her snogging one of my pals which put the mockers on that. Another girl I went out, I also introduced into the group. But it was different, she had a very strong personality, made immediate friends with everybody and they all loved her as a mate, but never needed to show it, shall we say. There was one time when she was upstairs talking to a mate of mine, I think we'd had an argument, and that was a bit strange, sicky feeling inside. But then the group sort of mutated and became a straight eight , four blokes and their girlfriends. I am sure they fancied my girlfriend and I did fancy one of their girlfriends but nothing came of it. In such a tightly knit group the only problem you face is when you are presented with a bill for a curry that cost £150 or if you get really drunk and decide that now is a good time to try how few clothes can you wear. The last thing basically killed it.

Right now, Mykle?

I am good friends with two of my exes. I have tried being just good friends with other men - it has never worked for me - the sex thing always gets in the way, often more subtly than you realise. I thought I was friends with a guy for 4 years. In fact, he was trying to go out with me for 4 years. That's not really friendship. I did go out with him in the end. It only lasted a few months and now we're not friends any more. Our friendship doesn't work as it was based on him trying to get together with me and me rejecting him. Our relationship didn't work as he wasn't nearly so keen on "me" as on the "idea of me". male-female friends I think is a nice idea but in practice rarely works. maybe it works for some people, but not for me.

works for me...one of my closest friends is a girlie...i've known her since 1989...has never been any shenanigans...and there won't be...and she is very attractive but the friendship thing means I wouldn't want anything to happen... (and anyway I'm a happily married man!!!) she used to be a friend of a male mate...then they got sexual...now they don't really speak...they both came to my wedding and made small talk which was very sad to see as the three of us used to be really close... I have other female friends, went on a hen weekend with them recently...and they came on my stag weekend... it can work...I love the friendship of women, and my partner is cool about it...one of her best friends is her ex b/f

Ah but what you don't know is exactly what she has felt for you martin- you say "she is very attractive but the friendship thing means I wouldn't want anything to happen..." So therefore the ball is in your court and you have decided that you don't want to ruin the friendship but she may have been thinking something else but realising that you don't want to "get sexual" has decided to accept the situation as it stands. but my point is that you don't KNOW whether she likes spending time with you because you are mates or because she is harbouring a secret desire for you and while pretending to love your conversation she is secretly thinking lusty thoughts about your nether region! (don't hit me! I am playing devil's advocate!)

yep, I agree, you both may agree you're cool with it all, but as you become closer as friends there is a very fine line between that and becoming closer physically, especially if she is "very attractive".. people often end up getting involved physically in a moment when they feel vulnerable/misunderstood without ever meaning it to happen.

I've got several really good female friends who I don't find attractive at all. Not because they're unattractive, just that for me there's no interest. And I'm pretty sure it's a reciprocal thing, too. :) Of course, if you find every member of the opposite sex sexually attractive, then you're always going to have problems.

Well, all afternoon really, Ari. I woke up this morning feeling old, looked in the mirror only to discover I looked even worse that I imagined! Shock, horror, ego problems, shower - no difference. Last resort - alcohol! I discovered this imaginatively titled "Mississippi Steamer" the perverse side of me bid me try. It's magic, I'm pissed... Happy ever after - unlikely ;o))

I don't think you have to find "every member of the opposite sex attractive" But I think that an intense degree of friendship and mental closeness can lead to thoughts about whether you should in fact be with that person. And I think that it is fairly inevitable that one of the pair will at least consider it. That's not to say thay will ever have the courage to say or do anything about it. But in a way I think it's a shame as if they are really close they might have a good relationship. But then maybe the sex would mess it all up and all the insecurities which didn't impinge on the friendship before could rise to the surface.

missi isn't going mykle. nor is ali moani. :-)

well, i certainly don't find every member of the opposite sex sexually attractive(!), and I'm sure they feel likewise about me.

Janey, you put it very well!

we did have this conversation jane...we're both into eachother as mates....

I wish I could make it, Stromy, but I'm too old, tired and settled in my ways. I'm sad that Missi isn't going because I'm sure that he would really enjoy it. Still, at least you are going - so drink some of that Chez firewater for all of us that can't make it! Not too much now, you don't want to let the side down. Have fun and write us a perspective from the mature point of view. I get sick of all this, evil, wicked, bad, nonsense. We rely on you!

....and she's not my only female mate...there are others that i did fancy before hand...but worked it out..so part of your argument does run true...i do fancy some of my female friends but have no desire for the shenanigans to commence...

Ps. Take some bog rolls :o)

Something you want to tell us about, Jane? >:-)

i wasn't talking about jane....even though she's a very nice person, I haven't had "that conversation" with her....not yet anyways... *exits confused*

Blimey! things nearly got libellous there! I know that everyone wants to think that the person they consider as just a friend has mirrored feelings for their own, but my point is that I think it's maybe a bit naive of anyone to assume that and as such, be careful with your "friends" and consider whether they might be interested in you before you drown them with your relationship troubles and use them as a surrogate relationship until the next person you are really interested comes along. Thanks Gail (blushes) cough, got to get back to work now obviously....

I used to have quite a few female friends, but like was said earlier, as far as I can recall, they were married or otherwise spoken-for most of the time I knew them. That kept anything from happening, at least from my standpoint. I seriously doubt if any of them were attracted to me anyway. Some of them were wonderful, though. Had they not been taken already, I would definitely have been interested. In fact, one in particular I first me in 1977. We worked in the same department for two years and spent weeks at a time on the road together (business trips). Sometimes there were 3-4 in the group, so it wasn't just the two of us, but often it was. Then she moved to London, then to New Jersey, while I was still in Connecticut. She was still married this whole time. Then in about 1994 I got the classic good news-bad news story. The good news (from my perspective) is that she and her husband were getting a divorce. The bad news was that she was moving to Palo Alto, California in two weeks. *OUCH* Well, she was in no mood to get involved with anyone else at that point anyway. As of a couple of years ago, last I heard, she now has a new man in her life and is very happy. Good for her, but still..... Some of the others were essentially "trophy dates" without the "date." They weren't bad people, but I would never spend any time around someone like that today. I just wanted to be "grandiose by association." Hey, it was the 80s! To answer the question about "just good friends," I would say it is very unlikely, unless there is some other factor keeping them apart (marriages, geography, lack of reciprocation).

Ooh I like it when everyone starts getting their "true life stories" out of the closet. I used to be "best mates" with this bloke at University. his girlfriend hated me and I could never work out why (doh!) as there was "nothing going on" and at the time I didn't think it ever would. But the following year we ended up getting together and he said that he had thought about it right from the start. I was a bit freaked out by it. No-one else was surprised though. He ended up really messing me around and we haven't spoken for about 5 years, although he has been emailing me recently to try to rekindle the "friendship". I see no grounds for a friendship and struggle to see why I ever did.

powerful men ... hahahahhahaha ...

I though it was funny too - could not help it ! sorry

Seem's to me in my wisdom Janey that you got out in the end the question you started this thread for, will you won't you rekindle this friendship as you are either flattered or not sure what to do so put it out to tender for some help. Of cause I could have it completely wrong as I know nothing about being just!!! friends with a man as in my day there wasn't such a thing it was all or nothing...

Well my 'true life' story has been available for some time. From a guys point of view mates of the opposite sex are much easier to deal with; there's no jockeying for position, or competition for a start. It's also so much easier to pour your heart out to a woman as the macho, 'I got to keep my mouth shut or my mates will think I'm a wimp' syndrome isn't present. Suffice it to say that most of my best mates are women, I love 'em dearly as friends and nothing is likely to happen 'cos I don't fancy them, nor them me. Having said that, my last relationship started out as mates (12years), and when it got sexual (at her instigation), it ended up wrecking everything, I haven't seen or heard from her since we split 18mths ago. There is no such thing as an amicable split from me, I put too much in to stay friends!

Certainly it's possible to be just good friends without being attracted to each other. I have two best friends and one of them's a boy. The idea of anything romantic happening is just plain icky, despite him being one of the nicest boys I know. And I know he doesn't have a secret flame for me because he told me so emphatically after we watched 'When Harry Met Sally' at a sleepover. Mind you we're only 15 so I don't know if that makes any difference… :)

well actually Jay I'm not interested in seeing this bloke at all as I feel I have wasted too much of my precious life on him already so that wasn't the reason for me starting the thread- actually I have got a number of good male friends but I do sometimes think of some of them differently- and the ones I don't think of "like that" I have no certainty of how they feel about me from time to time. I'm not being big-headed- I just think that when you are an adult, if you spend lots of time with someone and share lots of "special moments" it is rare that one or the other won't consider something more. "When Harry Met Sally" is more of a reason for me writing the thread to be honest! I really liked that film as I think it was quite honest- and the story could easily have ended up with them NOT getting together ( except it wouldn't have been very Hollywood!

*wimps out of posting*

I have thought about this one before. As someone who has more male friends than female it's an intersting point. I get fed up with people always assuming that there is something going on when I'm with one of them. But the truth is I think that the answer is no. "Just friends" isn't possible. It's too asexual. The slight feeling of attraction is always there. It's the fact that you a) Will never act on it b) Will never want to act on it c) Will never want him to act on it for a miriad of reasons, such as knowing them too well - how they behave in relationships for example, and also not wanting to screw up an important friendship (THIS WILL HAPPEN) that keeps you just friends. It's the same impulse not to act on an attraction which I get when I find out a gorgeous man is married. Call it choice. But the attraction IS there. On some level it has to be. I always put it in terms of last man on earth. I know, catagorically if the last man on earth was my father, or brother that the human race would die. But if the absolutely last man on earth was say my flatmate Damo, and I was the last woman, it might have a chance. Of course it WOULD HAVE TO get to that point before I'd ever act on the slight attraction, because in all honestly I'm really not interested in him.... but the possibility is there. Platonic friendships are a chioce.

I'm mates with 98% of my ex's (I have a lot) and am civil with the remaining 2%. One of my dearest friends is a bloke (although, come to think of it he is an ex too), we see each other regularly and often go on hols together. Have many other male friends with whom there has never been (and never will be) any sexual attraction. We just like each other is all. And they're not 'spoken for' either. Yes, it's definitely possible 'cos I'm living proof *she smiled knowingly*.

no

Pish, Phisch!

Ps Have never seen the film "When Harry met Sally"

some women have this other language called bitchin where they just open their mouth and the most disgusting dribble shall flow, no matter who it might hurt or what trouble it may cause, there seems to be a lot more of it going about these days.

Has Billy Crystal ever been better than in this picture? A seminal work. It deserves the Oscar for best plot structure. A triumph of form and content. Personally I think that men and women can be friends and are friends in real life. I think there's usually some tension present though, however invisible. This is probably genetic isn't it?

Until recently all of my friends were female, had to be, too much jealousy elsewise. However, since joining abc I have got a couple of really nice male friends who don't fancy me at all. I feel very comfortable in their presence 'cos they don't make me feel threatened. One of those mates is a very notorious writer here and I think (despite his inferiority complex) is the tops. You know who you are. xx

I just don't believe it's totally possible. Okay, maybe being friends with ex's are possible but the sexual tension and underlying attraction thing is done. I think it's difficult to start out as friends and remain that way without ever exploring those avenues. I don't know.

Oh bugger - if men and women can ever be "just good friends" I'm in deep trouble. Ho hum.

I read this thread just as I was leaving work and I thought about it. It led me to write a short article about love and friendship and sex (which was a little embarrassing as I kept thinking someone was looking at what I was writing on the laptop on the train.) When I got in I wrote a short short about the idea of Just Good Friends. I will upload the story later perhaps. The article really isn't good enough to be posted and will stay on the laptop for the moment. iceman

I believe that it is possible, although unless you discuss the issue with every friend of the opposite sex you can't be sure. Even then you have to allow for the possibility that one of you won't be totally honest for fear of rocking the boat. I have had female friends that I fancied at some point in the relationship, and some that I didn't. Some may have been attracted to me, if so they never said. For me it's just a case of recognising that sexual attraction can arise between friends, and deciding to deal with it; either say something, or decide to let it go. When people keep quiet but don't / can't let go, that's when the wheels come off.

Hox, youve just hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph - sexual attraction can arise between friends, between strangers, aquaintances... there is no law. If you are great friends, and there is a sexual attraction for one of you, then talk it out.. if you are good enough friends, it wont matter one way or the other. With friendship comes respect and if the other person doesnt feel the same as the one that is panting over a cuppa tea or a pint, then ultimately, it shouldnt be a problem.... we all have crushes that drift and die, or fizzle out. The real trouble starts when you fall in love with a friend.. real love. *eyes Hox*

I agree with Vicky. I have plenty of male friends, a few of whom I've messed around with in the past, and one of whom fancies me (very awkward and potentially nasty situation). Sometimes it's fine. I feel very comfortable being touchy-feely and tactile with them, because we've got all the sex stuff out of the way (except with the one who fancies me!), so we can be very relaxed and genuine with each other. Other times, it's not so fine, particularly when there's drink involved, but that's another story.

I lurve this thread, but sorry... got to go.

in my experience, men can be MUCH more hurtful bitches...

Strange you should mention that, when I got to my hotel I found the bog paper had almost run out. Fortunately I found a spare later on.