Why Are Women Drummers So Crap?

Debbi Peterson of the Bangles was good, if the records are anything to go by.

Is it because their breasts get in the way? As it happens I saw a band a couple of weeks ago called the Zimmer Frames, both me and my mate Chris remarked how good the (female) drummer was, it turned out she hadn't played in nine years. So not only are they good, but they stay good without practicing.

I think part of it may be because; to be a good drummer you must have very good stamina and strength. Women do not have the upper body strength of men. Most rock drummers I've ever known were in outstanding psysical condition and strong as a bull. Visit me http://www.radiodenver.org/

The woman who plays drums for Lenny Kravitz is brill and hits it hard. I suspect the crapness comes down to the fact that drumming is not considered a 'female' musical expression, and so isn't encouraged by parents from a young age; most women drummers probably take it up later in life, unlike men, who are encouraged to bang on pots and pans from the age of two. It's more experience than ability. I do great air-drums for Led Zeppelin. Mr. Bonham has met his match.

I think the inventions of vibrators has finally taught women how to keep a rhythm going.

Drumming isn't about stamina and strength. Drummers make or break bands. Without the tight, precision accent of a drummer, music is porridge. There is no roller coaster ride in popular music without drummers heralding the arrival of the centre-light-pop of a guitar solo, the shimmering decline to tranquility or the mudane courses preceding another emotional peak. There are loads of talented female drummers. Drumming increases stamina and strength...an effect. Guys go for guitars, drums and bass...women are sexually attracted to the big, low-end bass...the melodic, saturated blaze of guitar...but not so the seemingly mindless onslaught of the drum-skin. Pity, because drummers are the crucial back-bone to a band.

There's a whole lot of crap written about drummers, along with the standard jokes about wannabbes that can't play a musical instrument, so they buy a drum kit. Although the standard rhythm section is normally considered to be bass and drums the drums aren't by any means indispensable in popular music. The all time greatest performer of popular music is indisputably, Elvis Presley, but the first records he made, and that made him, were drum-free zones. Of the five singles (ten songs) recorded and released by Sun studio in Memphis, only one track had drums on it. That was 'I Forgot To Remember To Forget', the last single. By that time he had taken the music scene in the south by the scruff of the neck, given it a damned good shaking and almost single-handedly established modern popular music. It was on the basis of those first five records that Tom Parker became his manager and RCA paid $35,000, (an unheard of sum in those days), for Presley's contract. The statement above that music without drums is 'porridge' is complete garbage. I suspect that the real reason women rarely make good rock musicians is that the rhythms and beats are highly primeval, having warlike undertones in their base construction and feel, and are more 'hunter gatherer' than 'homemaker, the instinctive and traditional roles prevail, albeit subconsciously. As with all things, there are exceptions.

The whole idea of Man the Hunter and Woman the Homemaker is absolute rubbish and an inaccurate stereotype. Women also hunted, and in some places of the world, still do, with as much accuracy and skill as any man. These typecasting of the gender roles is a product of late 19th century male chauvanism; the (male) anthropologists just couldn't imagine that women were capable of equal skills and roles as men. Apparently the belief has yet to die out...

I can't even recall the drums on "Kung Fu Fighting". I imagine they don't set the world alight though.

Yes, AG, but we're talking here about a remnant patriarchal society in which women are constrained by heeled footwear thus excluding them from the thrill of the hunt and men are rapacious ruthless predators seeking trophies which will bring the acclaim of their competitive peers. Everyday life in Essex, in other words.

If there's any absolute rubbish here it's your wanky feminist views my dear. Try reading some respected anthropology instead of regurgitating that boring old crap so beloved of bra-burners. Whether you like the idea or not, there ARE things that men do better than women, and vice a versa. It's not chauvanistic to say so. Put your weary, incensed, fragile, female psyche back in the draw.

Missi, I have a degree in anthropology and have done plenty of reading on the subject. I -may- have some small idea of what I'm talking about. My female psyche hardly plays a role in this debate, and isn't what you'd call weary, incensed, or fragile anyhow. Quite the opposite. But I -do- agree that there are things men do better than women, and of course, vice-versa. I'm not sure drumming is necessarily one of those things, however, unless someone can prove than men are hardwired to play drums better. Then I'll change my belief that it's down to social 'norms' and lots of practice.

Then again, there -are- differences in male/female brains, such as spatial perception, language acquisition, and the use of the two spheres of the brain, so it might just be possible that men's brains are somehow wired to hold the rhythms better; is drumming a left- or right-brain activity, I wonder?

Well why wouldn't you have a degree? You have one in every other area of human knowledge! The problem with degrees is that there are degrees of ability within them. The knowledge required to become an 'expert' can be gained just as easily by serving time at the university of life. Very often first-hand experience is of greater value than listening to some professor boring the arse of a class in college. Styx, with the greatest respect, being a skin-basher doesn't make you an authority on drumming. I hasten to add, I'm not one either, (I believe however, that Tony Meehan was bloody good). So much of judgement is subjective, (why, I even believe that miss USA may have a valid opinion to offer, that's if it wasn't buried under the endless barrage of misplaced self-aggrandisement we are beaten about the head with almost every time she deigns to post her wisdom for the benefit of all here). Where Presley v Richard is concerned, I believe the statistics and preponderance of informed opinion in the music business would disagree with you. I don't remember reading anywhere that Richard has sold over a billion records world-wide and has accumulated at least 19 number 1's in the charts. Richard isn't even the best popular musician to come out of New Orleans (that honour goes, arguably to Ray Charles), let alone the world. I've also never heard anyone else claim that Richard was the 'king of rock'. Be serious, it just never happened outside your head.

"If there's any absolute rubbish here it's your wanky feminist views my dear. Try reading some respected anthropology instead of regurgitating that boring old crap so beloved of bra-burners." What I *said* was, I have a degree in anthropology (and alas, it's the only degree I do have), and thus I *have* read some respected anthropology. I've never claimed to be an expert in anthropology. Why is that self-aggrandisement, pray tell? You're right that degrees can only go so far, and that life experience goes further; I *do* have a bit of that, too, ya know. I don't have a degree in Elvis studies, however, and far be it from me to *ever* question your expertise on Elvis, Little Richard, the Memphis music scene, etc. I wouldn't dare. But tread into the realms of things I -do- know something about, I think I have the right to say something about it. That's fair, innit?

So you think I've been a little harsh with you then? My use of the word self-aggrandisement wasn't specifically as a result of your posts on this thread, but more of a conclusion arrived at as a result of your posts over the last year or so. You've been accused of behaviour in that vein before, not necessarily by me, but MANY others. Perhaps we're all wrong. Having said that, I agree, you have the right to express your opinion, I just wish it wasn't quite so self fucking righteous and sanctimonious. You may not have actually said, 'I am an expert in anthropology', but your statement infers you think you are. 'The whole idea of Man the Hunter and Woman the Homemaker is absolute rubbish and an inaccurate stereotype'. Actually, it isn't rubbish, whatever your bloody lecturers may have taught you. The chances are, that they received their wisdom in the same way. I would have thought it was common accepted knowledge that females have an instinct for nesting, far in excess of any similar instinct prevalent in males, who much prefer to hunt and kill, even if it is their own kind, then just screw cos they can't resist it. I don't have a degree *in* anything, but I do have a degree of general knowledge that has stood me in good stead for most of my life. I have also at times, come across university graduates in various fields that were complete frauds, and got away with it for years on the basis of the letters they insist on putting after their names. (I've also come across many others who were on top of their game and for whom I had the highest respect) I also agree it's *fair* that you have the right to express an opinion, even if it is wrong. Styx, the film you refer to is either very old, (if Frankie Lymon is in it, as he died 38yrs ago), in which case Little Richard would have been 32, or is a recent thing using archive footage of Lymon. Richard is 70 this year I believe. He, along with Jerry Lee Lewis and several others always claimed to be the 'King' of rock'n'roll. The difference between them and Presley is that HE never did make that claim, and in fact was embarrassed and pissed off about it at the time. I wouldn't personally take anything up with the guy as he's renowned for not believing anyone on anything. Fats Domino was and is a lovely man and great entertainer, but he was hardly rock'n'roll, and he was also very limited in what he could do. He's been very content to stay in New Orleans where he's been a big fish in a little pond for decades, bless him. I never for one second considered you 'a idiot', and I'm sure you have very valid opinions. It may be that Al Jackson IS as brilliant as you say, but Presley is, if such a label exists, the king of rock'n'roll. He may not have taken the first or second steps on the road but he bloody well ran the next mile, and most performers were left stranded in his wake.

Maybe you simply misunderstand what I say and how I say it. That's your problem. Man the Hunter IS rubbish, and has been disproven by however many anthropologists it would take to convince someone like you, who are even less of an expert in anthropology than I am. We're not talking about the 'nesting' instinct; we're talking about a woman's ability to DRUM, in case you with your advanced life experience have forgotten, which has absolutely no correlation with homemaking instincts or killing instincts. And I think the old chestnut about 'men like to have sex with uncountable women, while women don't' has also been disproven, certainly by several girls in my high school class. Again, another belief perpetrated by myopic male dinosaurs such as yourself, who find it convenient to view their own sexuality as being more than the sum of the weak and delicate female. And being that I have to listen to your half-assed, semi-knowledgeable "opinions" about things of which you have, shall we say, less than enlightened views on, I certainly do rather expect that I can pop up occasionally and drag you by your long hair, screaming out of the dark ages. ...... *titter* God, that felt good to write! Thanks! ;-)

So you went to school with a few slappers? Big deal

what do you call a myopic dinosaur? jathinkhesaurus. Thank you verrre much.

What do you call a Glaswegian myopic dinosaur? Hedidnyseeus Boom b--- sorry – dropped my sticks

I should clarify that I meant 'women having sex with uncountable men', not other women.... *cough* *picks up Lou's sticks for her and hands them back*