copyright

I was always told about the posting to yourself business and believed it but have since studied copyright law for an NCTJ journalism course and discovered it to be largely pointless. The legal situation is that if you write something original, you automatically have copyright of it until or unless you sell it or give it to someone else. All you have to do is prove that you really did write it first. In that context, if it came to a legal battle over who wrote something a sealed envelope and a postmark would be no match for a half-decent lawyer. Jeffrey Archer once drew significantly on a story that had won a competition he'd judged to write a short story (told from the point of view of a cat). The author complained but didn't even get an apology or an acknowledgement. Whatever you do, it's a risk, so I wouldn't waste the stamps posting stuff to yourself.

That is interesting David because I have been posting my novels on floppy disk to myself by special delivery in a tamper proof envelope and been informed that they are a form of copyright. My first novel I actually sent to a company on the Internet who keep it in a vault for a period of time and then you have the option of renewing it. The name slips my mind but if you require it Trish then just leave a message and I will gladly oblige. The only down side with this company is the £20 fee they charge.

Posting novels to yourself special delivery or otherwise is not a form of copyright. It's a form of proving you own copyright but, as I said above, if someone copied your stuff it would still be your word against theirs and you could quite easily lose. If NCTJ legal training is correct, which I hope it is, then there is no specific legal recognition of this practice In terms of the company with the vault, this is an utterly pointless exercise. This company themselves could easily read all the stuff they get sent, find any good stuff, pass it off as their own and flog it to agents and publishers. This option provides no security against copyright breach whatsoever and simply indulges the vanity of struggling writers.

I would have thought posting your stuff on this site is as good copyright protection as posting it to yourself. The advantage: it's free! The disadvantage: I suppose it increases the likelihood that someone will copy your work in the first place. Has anyone ever successfully argued in court a work belongs to them by referring to whom posted it on the internet, and when? Any precedents, legal bods?

I may yet be proved a fool, but I don't really see what the fuss is. As a profit-making scheme, the idea of stealing people's stories and sending them off to publishers is preposterous - we all know how unlikely you are to be accepted, so the time and effort alone would render the exercise pointless. Publishers themselves are too inundated with material to go trawling the Internet for more - and, if they were to start stealing stories, then they'd certainly find a legal loophole first. I can't see a devious businessman being outwitted by a writer who's posted his story to himself. Of course, paid lawyers are hardly likely to tell you anything other than that you've got a good chance of winning, because they want your money, and then the case will be bandied about forever while the law hoovers up cash from all fronts. So, I'd say that if you were ripped off, that's that. Forget it. Precautions are surely pretty useless.

Exactly. Other people stealing your work should be a long way down the list of concerns for the aspiring writer. Some way below writing something worth stealing, which should probably be the top priority.

I have to disagree and say it is very important that you copyright your work if you intend to have it published. I have now written eight novels and Nurtured Evil has now been published. I was hoping for it to be released before Christmas but it has been put back to January. If you have faith in what you write it is better to safeguard it even if it is not legally binding. I'm certain that if someone did publish some of my work in their name, the fact that I have definite proof in the form of special delivery would work in my favour. Another way and probably the safest would be to hand over your manuscript to a solicitor but this may be expensive. Anyway I will continue to post my work to myself in tamper proof envelopes and have been advised that this is a valid way of copyrighting your work. It also really does ease the worry of someone stealing your story. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you all. Hulsey

I'm genuinely confused by this approach. If a safeguard is not legally binding, in what way is it a safeguard?

Hmm... if I've written anything worth stealing then it was probably stolen in the first place.

I am a lawyer specialising in intellectual property law. As soon as you write something, you own copyright in it. You do not need to do anything further. The issue is whether you can prove that you wrote something or perhaps when you actually wrote it. You could prove this by sending your work to yourself or posting it on a reputable website or simply keeping dated notes and drafts. It is matter of evidence and in a dispute the person with the best evidence will be found to own the copyright. Posting envelopes to oneself is one of many ways of proving ownership of copyright.

anthiony, Would evidence have to be written? Some poets I know have poems in their heads which they perform in public but have never actually written down. If someone heard one of these poems, wrote it down and claimed to have written but the original poet had witnesses saying they'd heard him/her performing it, who do you reckon would win? It's an obscure one but I'm interested?

Thank you Anthony for clearing that up. Like I said I was told that sending your work to yourself was a valid way to safeguard it. I usually use special delivery and pop a floppy disk with a novel and some short stories on it into the envelope. It arrives the next day and costs about £4, which is reasonable. I take all aboard that it may not be legally binding but if there ever was a dispute I am certain that the envelope would be an asset to me. Anyway I really do feel more at ease once I have posted the envelope.

David - I'm afraid that your question raises some complicated issues about hearsay and the giving of evidence in court. The witnesses could only give evidence that they heard the poet perform the poem on a certain date. This in itself could not prove authorship as the poet could easily be reading someone else's poem. All that the witnesses can is attest to the fact that they heard the poem on the date. The poet would then also have to give evidence that they actually wrote the poem. Of course, if the poet does this and then calls witnesses to give evidence that they heard the 'real poet' perform the poem BEFORE the date that the 'rogue poet' claims to have written the poem, this leads to the irresistable conclusion that the 'real poet' wrote the poem and owns the copyright. Does that make sense? At the end of the day, any witness will be judged by their credibility in the witness box. So without any written records it really is just a matter of one person's (or some persons') word against another's. It is difficult to speculate about a hypothetical situation, but if one party has some written records, that party will usually be in a stronger position. My advice is to keep dated notes! Anything will help. Hulsey - Nothing is certain, but you are right that the envelope would be an asset for you in a dispute. Your system makes for cheap insurance and gives you peace of mind. I am quite obsessive about keeping notes and am comfortable that these would be sufficient to protect my rights. It is really a matter of how far you want to go to protect your rights. One could even swear an affidavit before a lawyer at the end of every day setting out the latest draft of their work! Hope this helps.

posting yourself everything that you write is costly and time-consuming to the point of barmpotness. our anthony reckons posting on a reputable website (which this is) might be enough - plus the dates that I saved my work are logged on the computer and will match up nicely. i wouldn't go to those other lengths, i just wouldn't bother ... after all, who's gonna want to nick my stuff anyway. i like to think it's good, but not THAT good.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mil.millington/saga.htm heres a VERY interesting and amusing little saga on copyright, and the internet. Interestingly, it also features Hannah, from Curtis Brown who is a pal of ABCTales... small world, as this url came from a czech friend of mine that is based in NYC, and has nothing to do with abctales...

thank you very much for your help. I have been ill so not had chance to read replies to my question on copyright. I always date my drafts & have them on my computer & most of them now are on abctales.com. i am confussed by some of the replies because it is still not clear to me about posting my work to my self,but i thank everyone for their help, in the event that i felt some one had copied my work then i have sraps of paper, drafts but it is worrying. thanks again regards trish