Harry Potter - The Goblet of Fire

Well, I guess I have to wait till later on in the day - it's 1:07 a.m. here in Canuckville and in the UK it's probably about 5:30 in the morning - you are probably all fast asleep.

Professor junior (aged 10) and I are close to finishing the Goblet of Fire. The book would have benefitted from some judicious pruning, I think, although it does contain the most satisfying scene from the Potter series - for me at least - when the fish-like Harry rescues his mates from the bottom of the lake. Pleasantly regressive, I felt.....

forced to read this aloud to fishbone jnr. (ms.) and it was a chore ... the advenurous aspects had her gasping but for me the characters are too thin ... harry DOES things but he isnt any good at "being"

Ivory - Could it be that Harry's lack of "being" is the reason why so many people can relate to him ? Just a thought.....

now listen here professor ... i am rather hungover and this thought is just too large to fit is what remains of my brain this morning ...

Harry Potter appeal is similar to Tom Cruise perhaps ? The reason Cruise is so successful as a movie star (note, not actor) is that he is a blank canvas, bringing nothing of himself to the role. If Harry for example felt strongly about something a reader did not, then some of the reader identification would be lost. I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is perhaps important. Personally, I felt Goblet of Fire could've lost a good 250 pages, which is a hell of a lot of excess baggage. I did like the gag early on about 'most people would give their right hand for what you are going to do for me Pettigrew'; but the formula is starting to show through. I thought the rivalry with Cedric was interesting and was wasted in the end - Cedric getting the girl, winning the tournament, saving Harry, being school hero - that would have been much more interesting. Be honest, if you had as much money as Rowling, would sitting down to write Volume 5 have the same urgency. It's like the third album problem with bands - album one is all about desparation and frustration, album two is we've made it, we can kick loose and album three is all we've done for the last four years is be famous and have people tell us we're wonderful - hence, bloated unlistenable album.

i feel forced to draw the discussion back to northern lights again now andrew ... tho your point is an interesting one (and tom cruise doesn't do it for me by the way) ... lyra is a character who is good at doing AND being ... she is a lively living breathing person with all her foibles and opinions ... as with friends i like to appreciate fictional characters for their bad as well as their good qualities, their vulnerabilities, their wholeness ... however much i think about harry potter i can't really see past the surface of this character ... the blank canvas as you say ... if that is something upon which the reader can project tmeselves then that is another parallel with friendship that i can see ... but the best friends are not the ones who passively receive our projections but the ones who force us to examine ourselves by challenging us ... the same is true for me with fictional characters yet again ... and if potter passively accepts then what is he doing for the kids own view of themselves? no no ... give me lyra with all her confronting and her capacity to change us ...

Goblet of Fire? Goddess of Fire, more like it! Those looks, that talent, and a billion squid. The Perfect Woman!

errr hitch .. who is a goddess of fire???

Would agree largely with you Fishwife - Lyra and indeed Will are much more interesting characters, because they have flaws and desires and weaknesses and have to make choices; whereas Potter doesn't - although there was a little jealousy/rivallry raising its head with Cedric in the last book. And is it just me, or is the idea of a schoolboy regularly besting a wizard that massively experienced wizards were frightened of, quite ludicrous ? And he's not really all that hot as a schoolboy is he ? More Ron than Hermione. My prediction is for Dumbledore to die in Book 5 - he's so obviously the Alec Guiness character in the stories...

I've read all of them several times! I tend to think it drawls on toomuch. Its too big!

I wonder if you are all reading too much into HP. Or maybe because I have a childish streak and am a lazy reader I don't know. But I started to read HP from book one and had to read them all. I can only imagine what it must be like to create a character/story that inspires children to read no matter what thier age group. and see it in print and then to top it all for it to be made into a film. If you read some of the letters sent in by the children it is quite clear that they do not care if Harry is solid or not. they obviously envy Harry's adventures and care that he wins or loses. The letter from the school teacher who describes her class as not wanting to go home when the bell rang until the chapter was finished, and cheering and punching the air when he won the quidditch match. Harry replaces all those stories of our youth. Good over evil and all that, he is in the right place. I would kill to be able to have any of my work published let alone given the greatest accolade. The approval of a grateful audience. I like Harry Potter, long may he reign.

good points antoinette! ... i suppose my problem is i read too much into everything ... HP has definitely got kids reading and that is A Good Thing in my book

Well, I gave it up since I posted this - the book was too thick to hold up on my teddy bear, Dick, while lying in bed - I re-drew Prodigal Summer from the 3 day shelf at the library and am happily 3/4 of the way through it

Antoinette's points are all very valid and up to Book 4, I would have argued to the death with anyone who scorned at Rowling's work; however, if I argue with people that books ostensibly for children can have merit for adults (What matters, in my view, is the story-telling) then I have to accept the flipside of that, that it is acceptable to look at the books with a more appraising eye. My gripe with Goblet is that if you are writing a 600 +page book, then it should need to be that big, the story should be that important, and I thought most of Goblet was padding; the book only really coming to life when Sirius Black was involved. The rumours on the net about a major plot-hole were obviously true, because large chunks of the book are clearly crowbarred in later to patch up plot and too many of the characters are in there purely to be the potential bad guy. But, I would certainly praise the series and can only wish that I could create something which would thrill people as much.