RIP

Hurrah for the death of freedom of speech.

No funnies on this thread please.

am thoroughly booted.....:(

Just in case anybody gets the wrong idea the poster of this thread is NOT me. But since I'm here I may as well voice my views on the days proceedings. I hope Andrea is satisfied with her attempt to manipulate the ABC forum. I imagine she now regrets it. It's almost impossible to stifle free speech but she has given it a bloody good try today. The result is she/Richard/both have decided that no one will be allowed to avoid the scrutiny of the UKA thought police. It's rather ironic that all this should blow up over Easter isn't it? Freedom of speech has been battered and finally crucified today. Maybe it will be resurrected by Monday and we can all get on with our lives. UKA R.I.P.

am upset now...... I seem to have been totally annihalated, my user name and password will not be recognised nor my e-mail address. Now how am I going to edit my work on there.........sobs...... and Easter tomorrow an' all.

aha.......thought for today. Tis Easter tomorrow perhaps I shall be resurrected......on second thoughts, I bet not. I did warn ya all........tis a moderated site. Let this be a lesson to all writers. Only speak nicely to the editors, lest ye be snuffed out and your work left there unattended by your loving hand.

From UKA (No mention of her own role in this I see) Awww, what a shame! Author: Andrea (---.xdsl.tiscali.nl) Date: 04-10-04 21:42 Sorry guys, just to let you know that forum is now 'login only'. Only a temporary measure, hopefully, until the silly people bent on being spiteful get bored and go elsewhere :-) Shame, but there ya go - that's life, it seems. Unsurprising that the world's in such a mess really, is it, if a bunch 'o' writers can't even be civil to one another? Ah well... Any probs, let me know, eh? Andrea@ukauthors.com

you beat me to it Jah Wohl.........;)

Whilst we're at it, what else is "unsurprising" Andrea, is that sometimes those who are two faced and manipulative get whats coming to them. Don't they?

Never seems to happen to your mate Stormy, but that's no surprise as you only pick on decent people don't you poison proxy?

Good post hypo. Just what I needed. Saves me putting the kettle on for Horlicks.

Don't you make horlicks with hot milk?

I'm sure that many will be please to see that most of the posters above are no longer using UKA. So at least they know there's a place they can go for sensible writers. UKA already looks a sunnier place. Our loss is OUR gain

That'll do thanks. The sites are very different, those who want this, use this. Those who want that, use that. Those who want both, use both. Oh, and there are sensible writers here too, thank you Richard.

Look what I just found int' archives here <>

Yes those who want both, use both and there are a lot of people (in fact it's the majority of regular users) that use both sites. This indicates that what happens in the forums, whether there is a moderator or not, is not the most important thing! Abctales and Ukauthors give us a wonderful opportunity to post our work and that's what really matters.

Dear Hypocrite/mykle/server/anonymous/cretin The reason 'stormy' doesn't get taken to task for being two-faced is because he isn't. Or perhaps I should say I am not. Two-faced, is someone who smiles sweetly in their own name whilst stabbing the person in the back under an alias. I've never done that and never will. Unlike you server. Britgrrl, ace defective, once again you allude to knowing who the anons are, yet you know feckall. What was the result of your last investigation? Oh yes, a great poem became deleted.

Stormy, I did not allude to knowing who the anons are. I do not know who they are. In this you are greatly mistaken.

ABC tales hardcore number 1 running tings an all that ...seen myboy ukauthors... get yer ead down you lot...

Sheesh. Use both, or pick your favourite and use that. The way this argument is going, the people who are firmly of one camp will just be cutting and pasting comments made by the other camp to say "Look, fellow abc-ers, look what oiks the UKA lot are" or "See, fellow UKA-ers, what a fearful rabble that abc bunch are" There's a choice to be made about forums and whether they are moderated or not - but we don't need to enter into a huge debate about what sort we like or why one is better than the other. There's now a straight choice. Some people may want to be sure that there is someone looking over posts who will remove the ones that threaten to get out of hand, and they can go to UKA, others will prefer an unmoderated forum that in the end generally regulates itself and they can use abc. The bitching and sniping does no side any favours. And in the cry of all parents throughout the land, "I don't care who started it" Abc is an unmoderated forum, and so we can talk about what we like, but if people do desperately want to continue with this discussion, it might be nice to discuss the relative merits of the sites without name-calling and bitching.

If you wish to start a REAL slagging match Richard, just let me know. I can assure you that you are NO match for me. Now just go back to your cosy little sycophants nest and be a good boy. If you're not I have no doubt that 'mother' will give you a slap to keep you in line.

This so reminds me of the threads we used to have: ones that descend into chaos and end up with one or more members leaving. If this one does result in Liana moving on, then EVERYONE involved in ABC, from the management to the guy that posts a single piece, will have lost something special and unique. Well done!

This is pathetic, two threats merely for slagging off another site! Maybe they do have a point in UKA (and yes, I use both). Andrea and Richard work incredibly hard to give everybody a chance to post their writing, just like the people who created ABC. Thanks you to both teams by the way.

speaking of sycophants.... having heard some biting and dismissive opinions about both sites (not to mention certain people) in personal exchanges quite a few times, I can't help but notice a couple of biggie S's doing their 'sincere' strut across these UKA/ABC threads. They're the same when talking/writing about/to individuals....there's considerable difference between what they say privately and what they write/say for public/Other consumption. Who are the real manipulators, huh? *gags*

Well I'm sorry if that's how you see it, but I don't notice anyone on UKA taking Richard to task for his references to ABC. Oh, I know he didn't mention the site by name but as the row involves no other sites but UKA and ABC it's obvious that it's this site he's referring to. For the information of those on THIS site I copy his post on his own site, below, then perhaps all those that see him as a hard-working champion of everything that's righteous will have a clearer insight into his manipulative ways. It seems to me that in the attempt to show some unity between the sites, Andrea and Richard have driven them further apart than they ever were; a classic case of too much interference being ultimately destructive. I doubt that they will see any sense in my remarks though. I would also point out (in answer to Emma's comment on the UKA & ABC thread)), that whilst there may be (or not), a certain amount of communication between the management of both sites, the membership couldn't be further apart. They think differently in the main and have different objectives. The number of users common to both sites is miniscule as a proportion of the whole. There is very little the sites have in common apart from the fact that they both have writers on them. >> Author: Richard (---.blueyonder.co.uk) Date: 04-11-04 11:09 Hi guys, The time has come to tighten the reins of UKA to keep out the trolls and trouble makers. There are already plenty of well-known sites for the lowlifes to wreak havoc on and, as far as we're concerned, they can go back there. UKA is a site for writers intent on improvement and commitment. We do have rules and perhaps, for some, we may be looked upon as 'little Hitlers' 'suppressors of free speech' or any one of the dozens of labels stuck on people intent on civility. We are not suppressors of free speech and we NEVER remove, alter, ban or stop members from expressing themselves... UNLESS... Unless a member is bent on causing trouble, is not constructive in their argument, not polite and basically behaves in a manner or 'talks' in a manner that they would do if they were face to face with that person. Poison, vitriol and hatred has no place on UKA and will not be tolerated. Forums are ideal places for cowards afraid to reveal their true identities. I'm sure that most of the sniping, back stabbing and nastiness would never take place face to face. Anyway. For those who would rather have a writers' site free of all the above then you know that UKA is the place to be. For the rest... there are loads of other sites to cause trouble on but sorry, you can't do it here. NOW Anyone who wants to use the UKA forums will need to register by emailing me here webmaster@ukauthors.com The reason you can't register via this forum is that it's currently a bit buggered, but will be fixed asap. We're altering the script so that once you've logged in via the main site, you will also be logged in on the forums, but of course you'll have to be a registered UKA member to do this. Until then, please just email me with a desired username and password and I will enter the details as I receive them. I'll then email you back. If you've already registered you should be able to login as Andrea has fixed any loooooooooooog user names that have occurred (this is a problem with the encryption bit). If you have registered but can't login, just email me with the details and I will fix. Here's to a better UKA. Cheers all, Richard <<

Oh dear. And what a shame we can't have threads like this on UKA. How we all revel in the bright sunshine of lonely, self-righteous trolls whining about jackboots and free speech. Incidentally, I'd love to see an example of the kind of "humorous mickey-taking" that's been stamped out. I doubt it's anything anyone will miss.

Yes, I agree Jon, it's a pity you have to come here for your entertainment isn't it?

Well, actually, missi, seems a number of ABCer's do the regular astral trot over to UKA for THEIR entertainment. Amazing how some of you know so much about what goes on there, and every word/poster to each of the threads, going to the trouble to copy and paste as well as search UKA forum archives for 'incriminating' evidence! Sounds very gleefully undercover and 'wifely' to me....*yeah...been there, done that*

Well I am sorry Hen, but it was humorous mickey taking. One such post was, and I quote; "flashes bum". That's it. Ok, so maybe it's light on the humor, but then so is UKA. Oh yes, I bet everyone who saw it was wounded beyond repair. Nasty nasty troll. Congratulations Andrea, you really pulled it off. I hope you are proud of yourself. I for one, am incredibly disappointed in you. ABC was bumbling along quite nicely before you started this war. And don't come over mock horrified ... you did start it.

I have no quarrel with you Shelagh, in fact I don't really have a quarrel with any particular person on UKA, I just despise the 'fit in or fuck off' attitude of the management. I at least use my name so you all know who to aim at.

Nor I with you George. Most know who I am, too. I'm not addressing YOU, I'm speaking to your 'argument' here - what you are saying. And you are not one of the biggies S's, as far as I'm concerned. THEY know who they are.

Yeah man don't try and belittle peoples writing as less better than others thats a bit of a rude thing to say if you dont mind me saying so.

Mississippi, the main reason you are so against any form of moderation is that you can't moderate yourself! All this nonsense you talk about free speech is just an excuse for you and your fellow savages with Tourette Syndrome to post whatever you like. The hypocrisy of the professional thread manipulators, not just Mississippi, accusing UKA of manipulation beggars belief. Regular ABC thread readers will know - despite all this talk of free speech - that anyone who offends the cosy little coterie of the ABC “old boys club” is quickly assassinated by the poison proxies unless their armour proves exceptionally effective in which case they suffer continual sniping and personal abuse. Because of this “rat pack” policy many interesting, amusing and talented people have abandoned ABC for the happy haven of UKA. It doesn’t seem that long ago that the Tantric Fish was swimming in their safe waters and many other have taken refuge there too. It amazes me that anyone is taken in by the “free speech” nonsense as many thread readers must admit to themselves that they would occasionally like to post in opposition to certain regular threaders but are afraid of the consequences. You are free to say what you like so long as you don’t mind being shot for it! [%sig%]

Couldnt post that on UKA could you? Welcome to ABC, where you are free to post what you wish.

As someone new to ABC and someone who doesn't even know who UKA are I agree with some of your comments. I'm not going to give any damning endictments of anyone but I have found that it can be hard being a newbie on a discussion board such as this. I have had the odd disparaging and unjustified comment from some people. However, I have also enjoyed some good fun with these threads. Free speech is a must but one must have a thick skin. People can be abusive on here because maybe they cannot be so in real life. Some of the most abusive on here are probably quiet mice and really nice in real life even I suspect the aforementioned pissismippi....lol Anyways take the good with the bad. Realise that this isn't always a serious format and have fun with it.

I can't see why I couldn't post it on UKA, Liana. Can't see why I would need to though!

Not me dear. See new thread. Have fun! *blows kisses*

"Oh yes, I bet everyone who saw it was wounded beyond repair. Nasty nasty troll." I wouldn't bother to delete the thread in question, but on the other hand, are you saying you actually *miss* it?? Is it really worth anyone's effort? Yes, you can argue about the 'principles' involved, but I'm more concerned with the practical implications, and I'll only be convinced the UKA admin are doing wrong when I'm given a good example of something worthwhile being deleted. For all this supposed oppression, I don't find the ABC threads much more "fun" or "interesting" - there's just more crap to weed through. I get 'involved' in a thread at about the same rate on both sites. 'Hypocrite' has a damn good point about the 'principle of free speech' argument. Free speech is something that is afforded to you by yourself, and the community you're involved in - it's *not* just a matter of admin regulations, and if people are verbally attacked for expressing their views, as they frequently are here, then that's as restrictive as thread-deleting. The ABC forums has a particular dynamic that has advantages and disadvantages - one of the obvious disadvantages is that you've got to be bloody thick-skinned to say what you feel here.

Like I said, somewhere else, it's an education. My post on other thread was naive with regard to the two sites, and came from a newbie point of view. I shouldn't have posted there at all. Missi has clarified the relationship a bit, and all the stuff on these forums is really getting to me now, it's ruined this site, possibly irreparably, I'm a bit worried. See other thread.

I personally don't give a dogs dick about anything a Hypocrite has to say or think actually. But I still defend his/her right to come on here and talk bollocks. Jon was ALWAYS going to be a UKA'er in loyalty, partly because they think he's jesus christ, and partly because he was a prime mover in trying to get moderators on ABC in the hopes it would protect him from those he perceived as enemies. I seem to remember he was part of a suicide squad that tried a character assassination on me some time back, with little success. Emma, you don't HAVE to take part in General Discussion you know. There are other forums that are largely innocuous. This forum has always been lively and I suppose, as Jon says, it helps to be resilient. Most members in fact don't use the forums at all, but still enjoy posting their work and reading that of others.

I have been a bit perturbed by Liana's resignation Missi, which is the irreprable aspect I refer to. I love the Gen Dis and wouldn't like an 'innocuous' equivalent half as much. But I don't know whether the freedom of speech is killing the freedom of speech in one horrible viscious circle that eventually implodes the community it purports to benefit. Remember the Castaway experience ? Though everyone denied it, it was the black and the gay members that were hounded out.