being seen

how utterly brilliant!! I am still laughing... well done! (off to read the story now)

Whow that's pure magic...

We've talked about this before, Max. The simple fact is, the bigger a site gets the less likely it is for any particular piece to get read. It's true that both the number of pieces on the site and the number of visitors per day are both growing, but the number of items on the site is expanding far more rapidly than the number of people visiting. Hence the total number of visitors becomes spread ever more thinly across the total number of stories. One solution would be to limit each contributor with regard to the number of pieces they have on display at any one time, like an art gallety with limited wall space. Another possible solution would be to have more grades and selections (however arrived at) so that visitors were directed to particular, outstandingly good stories. To a small extent the cherry-picking system already does this. But in the end it does come down to serendipity or plain luck which pieces get read and which don't.

I too have pieces on the site which are completely bereft of visits. One solution which I believe may work is to make sure that every time you review someone's work, in the comments, mention a piece you would like someone to look at. You scratch my back and I'll scratch mine so to speak. However, please don't ask me to read poetry!

What seems to happen with some authors such as twotoasts (who is a fantastically good poet) and funky seagull, etc. is that people will read one of their works (presumably accessed through the last 10 entered list) and want to read more. If they then highlight the work to others via the forum, they develop a following. You can probably lose readers gained inthis way by then writing a whole lot of rubbish- and I wonder at the wisdom of my recent poetry spurt in this regard, since I am a naturally talentless poet. The thing to do in that instance is to replace your trashiest pieces with good stuff via the edit buttons. You'll find you're loathe to do so though.

As always, you have to ask yourself how much time you devote to reading other people's work here on the site. Although we do have a lot of readers who don't write, most of us here are writers. The only way to get most work read a lot is for everyone to spend twenty minutes or so a week reading other people's work. There are a lot of people who read through the last ten pieces, but if someone comes in and posts twelve new bits of work in one go, then they probably get one read and if it doesn't dazzle, the rest go unread - much, much better to post twelve new pieces over a three week period and get them all read.

Several people wrote in response. I'd like to say "thank you". It seems that the success of ABCtales militates against the success of the individual writer, in that there are far more items to see than visitors to see them; and except for the cherry-picking system (which is acknowledgedly -- and rightly -- subjective) there is no mechanism to bring the work of unknown writers to wide attention. Someone, I believe it was D G Lennon, suggested that good writers might build up a following when those people impressed with their work talked about it here in the discussions. Someone else (Andrew Pack) said that writers should make a point of reading a bunch of items each week. Trouble is, most people will read from the "last ten posted", and there are now so many new contributions that the last ten become history almost before they're submitted. It's impossible to keep up. I'm sure people will go on submitting their work, if only because people love to see their stuff "in print" -- that is enough of a boost to fragile confidence in itself. But it seems that, as Sirat says, some kind of limiting mechanism would mean that more work was more widely exposed than it is at present. Perhaps a limited number of subscribers? Or a limited number of items per subscriber? (I just checked, and there are 2168 subscribers with 18604 items at present.) Max [PS An especial thank-you to whoever it was gave me a ridiculously generous five stars!]

My experience wehen I first started posting was that people were quite sniffy about new writers requesting feedback on the disscussion board. I remember one thread being called 'Desperately seeking a thread not called feeback', which put the fear of god into me. I think it's perfectly legitimate to announce your arrival on site, or to ask for feedback. Obviously the individual needs to show restraint, but at the same time, why shouldn't you be able to proudly announce that you've got something that you want seeing? I do my best to despatch electronic missives full of rambling and incoherant opinion and criticism, and I'm happy to have a read of any stuff that is pointed out me. I think everyone has to take responsibility for getting each others stuff read. I'm doing my best but I've only got two good typing fingers and staring at the screen for too long makes the colours vibrate and the hum from the stack get loader and louder. Drop me an email if you fancy I'm always happy to have a read.

Oh, just in addition, I think we should all give Mr Funky Seagull a big hand for doing exactly what I've just suggested. A round of applause for our avian friend...

Don't ask me to read neilwills. He is horrid and unkind to poets. I have written a poem about it. I intend to persue him mercilessly and read it to him as punishment. It is very long and emotional. He will be sorry.

I just read some of his stuff. I read a lot of people's work, mainly from the recent 10/50/100 as they crop up. I will look up anyone who has said things on the forums, out of interest to see how their work backs up their opinions, but someone being new and announcing themself just as a name doesnt do the trick for me. It doesnt bother me if someone professes not to like poetry, I understand the attitude though not really the stance. Bore and let bore!

The cherry-picking system is all very well but some of my favourite stories on the site such as some of the ones by cjaysmith which I really liked, haven't been cherrypicked, so I'd rather not restrict myself to cherries. At the moment I'm just clicking the random button to read stuff, it's simple and quick, I've read some pretty good stuff so far, and then if I read a piece I like I'll look at the other stories the author has written, it works pretty well. Yeah, it's mainly down to luck whether you get read, but if you post on here asking people to read your stories then it usually works.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with asking people to read your stuff here. But it helps if you say *why* they should read them. Same applies to asking people to read somebody else's work. For instance if I just say "Read my latest story, it's called "Witchcraft", you're going to sniff politely and move on to the next thread. If I say the same thing and include a past-in link I might improve my chances slightly. If I ask you to read it, include the link, and tell you that it's a story told by a little boy in rural Ireland and perceptive readers will be able to find a very serious subtext which amounts to a completely separate story hidden in the overt one, then you just might be sufficiently intrigued to go and read it. You can also slyly slip in references to your own work in threads that have nothing to do with it, although I would never do anything like that myself. Oh yes. What do I mean by a paste-in link? Well, here's an example of one: http://www.abctales.com/abcplex/viewStory.cgi?s=23084