I have to say that I feel both entertained and intrigued by Britgrrl’s posts - but then again I’m ratted and easily impressed. The world seems to be full of people that can’t admit to anything beyond a simplistic concept of a mechanical universe - it’s heart warming to sense a kindred spirit in many of the female post to this thread. Is it just hubris or simply over confidence that makes us so sure of our importance - but that’s another question :)
Mykle wrote:
She had mistaken life for love, mistaken his occasional need of shelter for a deep and intimate sharing, his appreciation of her beauty for an eternal communion of their souls.'
Sounds like self deception. Sometimes we want something so badly we tell ourselves many lies. We ignore all the signs that would inform us of the truth because we just don't want to see it; we greatly prefer the illusion. Who is making the mistakes throughout everything Mykle has written here? In this case it's the woman. I believe she betrays herself. The man just takes advantage of what she freely gives because he doesn't feel enough for her to care, one way or another; extreme selfishness on his part is not necessarily betrayal. In my opinion, he owes her nothing unless he lied and made promises he did not intend to keep.
I think often we have an unconscious agenda in matters of 'love'. We set out to prove something about ourselves, or the other. If that something is that we are totally unlovable then we 'arrange' for that to occur. If it's that he's a natural born cad, we conveniently place ourselves in the way of his tendency to behave in such a manner; offer ourselves up for the taking.
we can't bargain or barter for love in the expectation that if we give, then we should receive in return. Real love isn't like that, in my opinion.
it figures...just the moment i decide to use this thread as a chat-up and do this cavorting thing I've been accused of in the past...
all the prospects have fallen asleep..... sob
you're awake! i should try to keep my wits about me and continue in the vein of my earlier posts but can't be arsed! tired of the silly game....tell me M, what is the meaning of life?
I agree with all that you say Britgrrl.
In re-reading Pi’s ‘betrayal’ I realised that I had inferred self-betrayal from the lines:
“Your footpath reaches the bridge that runs over the water of her tears”
and “Her dreams float in clouds you cannot grasp.”
I was amazed that, in spite of everything, there remained a bridge for him above the tears and felt that it indicated that she had always made things too easy. I also presumed that her dreams had never been within his reach, nor had he sought to reach them.
It seems you were right after all Pi “The inspiration may have come from my poem but the resulting poem is yours Mykle,”
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Oh the joy of dreaming Britgrrl :o)
I’m almost 55 and far to old to do anything but dream of such an intelligent and sexy partner.
Oh to be so lucky and have such an intelligent and insightful partner :)
I’d settle for a kind-heated moron at the moment ;o)
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I was amazed that, in spite of everything, there remained a bridge for him above the tears and felt that it indicated that she had always made things too easy. I also presumed that her dreams had never been within his reach, nor had he sought to reach them.
You're really insightful, Mykle. I don't know about the poem - only the poet knows her intent - but look at what the latter sentence should have told her: he wasn't seeing who she was, inside, at all.
That's a heartbreaking realization, and one we'll do anything to avoid experiencing once we find ourselves in the free-fall of loving someone. At that stage, you have to believe and trust that the one you love will be there to catch you in their arms and heart. Have you ever been in an experiential workshop on trust building? The same thing happens. You stand facing out from an inner circle, then must allow yourself to fall backwards, trusting that one of the strangers closest to you will catch you before you hit the ground, get hurt.
That letting go and trusting yourself to another IS love, to my way of thinking. But in this poem, apparently, she had already learned that he was never there to catch her. So, yes, why was she still hoping, building bridges, providing the clarifying waters and signs that showed him the way to where she was? Why was she still offering up her dreams, her whole self?
She had mistaken the light that shone from his are soul as the sun.
In fact it came from the hole in his head where his brain should be.
Whats the exclamation mark at the end for? This is a noxious gas of a poem and what's more it's on the wrong forum.
Only someone with a good sense of humour would ask about the meaning of life Britgrrl - well we won’t go into the idiots that do it just out of a need to sound intelligent - and I would say that it depends on who you are and who you intend to spending your life with!
LOL V. Omit, you are a cynic, par excellence! But I think we're discussing content and motivation here, not a poem per se. Still, you may be right; perhaps this should be on the discuss abc writing thread.
I answered because I'm interested in the question of why people feel betrayed in love.
You know what brit if Jack didn't get an Oscar for five easy pieces he should have, he was fantastic in it .All weekend i've tried to finish several stories i've started and failed miserably.....so rather sadly ended up on here looking for entertainment.
Britgrrl, do you refer to the film with Jack Nicholson ( is that how you spell it) , Five Easy Pieces returning to his family that are all talented musicians?
If so, there is an interesting short of Jack playing the piano on the back of an old truck going nowhere.
Also it’s an interesting comparison between Jack’s rather dumb companion and the intellectual friend of his brother.
flash and M, yes that film...can't recall if he won an oscar..what stories? on uka? ..pretty stereotypical in the contrast between the women though, wasn't it...but that difference did make his desertion at the end awfully chilling ..and sad...
Hey, Emma, I've just been to Tesco before they close for the afternoon and guess what I just bought?
RASPBERRIES!!
Two punnets ... less than half price due to sell-by-date ... all right, I know that's not normally a great romantic utterance, but this is a Tyke-to-Tyke conversation.
Brit i'm about to go and watch a film which do you recommend
The Lady Killers with Tom Hanks
Secret Window with Johnny Depp
Mystic River with Sean Penn,Tim Robbins
Eternal sunshine of a spotless mind with JimCarey
Binky does Boston with Binky Boop Boop de Boop
hehehe, I've also been at Tesco today and bought THREE punnets of Rasperries...one up on you there, Neil...
and I paid full price for mine...quality is everything, as I can't stint on the experience.
With respect Flash,, and considering that I’m very drunk, the focus of this thread should be about betrayal.
We are arguing what is the difference between what, perhaps, we hope for and what we obtain. In the end it is small things that make the difference between what we aspire to and what we attain,
Oh, shit, I’m talking nonsense again..... suppose I could blame it on the Stella (what’ the point?) it’s just badly expressed the way I feel!
In my world feelings count for more than logic and love - with all it’s dangers - is the only way forward.
All you Need Is Love - a foolish sentiment or a top twenty hit? The Beatles knew a bit about love and they tried to tell us all about it!
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I’m very drunk -possibly the best time to talk about betrayal - and I don’t care about ’love’ anymore.
I don’t care about betrayal - because that presuppose someone to be betrayed when in the end both concepts are subjective. To get back to the subject - betrayal - it’s something that you sow the seeds of with your first kiss. Not that all kisses carry the hallmark of a doomed relationship - my goodness I’ve discovered an opened cans that I feel compelled to drink - though I know I’m already beyond the pale (pail?)... Sorry. I’ve forgotten what we were talking about - betrayal .... you’re kidding surely?
Just pass me another can and let me fade into the oblivion that I have paid for but do not expect to obtain.
I’m ratted - and yet I remember the fields of grass that remind me of your pubic hair .
I’m ratted - and hope that you cannot forget the caves of joy I once explored.
I’m simply ratted - and I can’t remember what we hoped for and yet lost.
I’m ratted - and maybe it helps me to forget why I should feel betrayed
I‘m ratted and I just want to feel you in my arms again,.
I’m, ratted and yet I know that it’s impossible.
I’m ratted - yet I continue to dream.
I’m ratted.
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George, you were a blacksmith????
*imagining george taking off her shoe, filling it with wine , drinking thereof. Hmmmm. A hoof and foot fetish*
Do you do hoof and foot massage? I lurve the nibbling on toes bit too, though I may laugh if it tickles. I must confess I'm given to laughing at such times, though as with Mykle, not at, but with.
Yes, I was a village blacksmith as a youngster, before I gave it up and joined the merchant navy to see the world. Your imagination needs a little adjusting though, Shelagh. You see blacksmiths don't shoe horses, those that do are called farriers, although some blacksmiths do both jobs. A village blacksmith in the late 20thC. was kept busy repairing agricultural machinery and making wrought iron stuff. It was mostly farm work, as the use of horses had practically disappeared there was very little call for horse-shoeing, so specialist farriers took over the work covering large areas and are mostly mobile. ie. they have mobile forges and work at riding schools etc.
I'd be happy to drink wine from your shoe though, and have been told that I am very good with my hands.
I agree Emma, but, I think that many people feel that they have been betrayed in love because their partners have left them in an emotional sense. When you are in love there is often a sense of a shared destiny, perhaps a romantic dream, in which you expect to walk hand in hand together into the future. When, for whatever reasons, this fades and you wake up with a ‘familiar stranger’ who no longer seems to have anything in common with you or your aspirations - it’s easy to feel betrayed without realising that your betrayal is just as profound.
Michael/John? hang in there...you're going off on a jag.. i got pic you handsome devil you, though you probably don't remember sending it..well i'm here to remind you ( i seem to be stuck in lyric mode over the last few hours!) of a what an arse you made of yourself last night..lol..
teasing. not really. thank you. shelagh
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