This way please...

Oh no. I don't mind you cherry-picking cack every now and then to make me feel you people have poor taste, but bringing my attention to something genuinely, unquestionably excellently written and practically faultless is unforgivable. Shame on you - this is exactly how you *dissuade* young writers from continuing. You're damn lucky I have such a big ego.

Good piece of writing Tom. You're a talented writer dude. And what you should do sometime.. is get your short stories together and see if you can publish them in a book or something. I mean that man. You said this in your interview: ".. What are your aspirations for your writing? Professionally, none. I’m not a novelist and the chances of me having a short-story collection published are almost nil. Nevertheless, I want to progress as a writer. There’s never any end to aspiration when it comes to quality, no point where you can feel satisfied.. " *** I don't reckon that's true.. I don't reckon the publishing world is just open to novelists. I think there is a place for short story writers too. I reckon it's possible to get a short story collection published. Even if you're a novelist you're gonna have to face many rejections.. Tolkien faced loads man.. and so did J.K. Rowling with her Harry Potter books, but they didn't give up. So I reckon if your persistent enough.. you can get a short story collection published. I really believe this.. and I really believe you should have a go. I mean you've definately got what it takes. Choose your best pieces of writing, and send them off and see what happens. Don't get put off by rejections.. remember many great authors have faced lots of rejections.. eventually you've got to hit the bulls-eye man. I would buy a book of your short stories. I have quite a few books of short stories on my shelves.. so there's definately a market for it. Just got to choose the right publishers to send your manuscripts to. And you tend to pack quite a lot into your stories, which I feel will stand you in good stead. Your characters are strong.. the descriptions are strong.. it's all strong. I dunno just an idea.. what you got to lose.. maybe a bit of time.. and a bit of money on stamps.. but life is short. Is better to regret something you have done; than to regret something you haven't done. I reckon if your tenacious enough and don't give in.. you'll get there man. God Bless

Thanks to Andrew, Henstoat and Funky. Very much appreciated. Getting a short story collection published is unlikely (extremely) but not impossible, Funk. Don't worry I haven't given up trying, just not holding my breath, is all. I've been around the block a few times in this regard so I speak from experience. The main problem is that agents and publishers are reluctant to work with a collection if there's no novel in the pipeline. Novelists are allowed to bring out a bunch of short stories every now an then, but the book business tolerates this rather than actively encouraging it. If you're not willing to write a novel (I've written two and I'm just not a novelist - some people aren't) you're pretty much consigning yourself to the fringe, which isn't that bad a place to be. There's no money in it, but no-one ever got rich writing short stories - at least not in the modern era.

It's a shame the publishing world has to be like that. It shouldn't just be for novelists, the novel is just a part of writing. There should be all kinds of books in the stores.. and every type of writer should have a chance. I'am in the same boat as you Tom. I'am not a novelist really. I can write long short stories.. but every time I try and write a novel I just lose interest halfway through and can't do it anymore.. I prefer writing short stories. I did have an idea though, been playing with it for a while now.. about how to bring short story writing back into the publishing equation; maybe write something like 12 - 14 short stories, but all related around the same theme, so that they all connect together, and reveal something new each time, eventually when the reader has read all the stories they see the full picture. A bit like when you've finished a jigsaw. Each short story is a story in it's own right, but also a jigsaw piece. Kind of deconstructing the novel. A post modern novel perhaps. Instead of having chapters that follow a time-line. It's a collection of chapters/stories that can be read in any order, but each one builds up that jigsaw.. puts a new piece into it.. if you get what I mean. That way they can all be stories in their own right. Don't know if I'am explaining this too well. What happens is: you could have the final chapter in the middle somewhere, the beginning chapter near the end, and the middle at the beginning.. and the reader can read any story they like, just pick anyone of them - cause there isn't a chronological order as such. Just stories that weave together. So that it won't spoil it if they haven't read a certain story, because it doesn't matter.. that's not the point, it's a chilled out kind of book; they don't need to read something to understand something else.. they can pick up the book and start reading any of the stories in it, and they don't have to read any of the others to understand what's going on. They can start on any story they like. Choose which one they want to read. But after they've read all the stories it will have been lthe same as reading a novel. But perhaps more fun. Don't know if that makes sense. It's kind of what I'am going to do I think.. as I can't write a novel to save my life. Not yet anyway, but I can write 12 -14 short stories that are all connected, stories in their own right. Like the musalchemist chronicles that I'am writing for example. I've written about 4 now, and each one can be read in any order, but each one, tells something different and reveals something new about the bigger story. But there's no set chapter format timeline that you have to follow. They can be read in any order. Maybe you could try that too.. connect some of your stories together.. make a kind of jigsaw.. I kind of call it the jigsaw novel. I dunno man I would just love to see you get published cause your talented man.. and your talented cause you've spent long hours writing.. been at it for a long time.. so you know your trade. I dunno try the jigsaw idea, deconstruct the novel and see where you end up.. experiment see if you can make something out of it. Maybe if it works.. not sure if it's been thought of before.. but if it works it could be a revival for interest in short stories. We can't give up, us short story writers, we got to stick together and show the worth of the short story to the people and what it can do. Get people hooked on our way of writing. Fight back with our creativity.. open up the publishing world for every kind of writer. Not just a certain type. I don't want to be pushed into the sidelines by money.. not anymore.. I wanna prove to the world that short stories have just as much to say as the novel does. much respect ~FS.2002~

One of my favorite novels I read as a kid was like that. "The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury. It was nothing but a bunch of short stories threaded together. "Not for what you are" is a story that's just itching to be published. (Give it a shot!)

Sad, but there is some truth in it. As to why - when was the last time you bought a book of short stories by a writer you'd never heard of? Exactly. And you're someone who likes short stories... (this an open question to all, not having a go at any particular person). A collection of short stories is tolerated if you're someone who is going to knock out two or three novels, but they don't sell well. Publishing is a commercial business. That doesn't mean anyone should stop trying - sometimes short stories can be a calling card, sometimes they develop into something bigger (a Murakami short became his best ever novel), sometimes they give you ideas, sometimes they give you a breather from working on a novel, sometimes you learn a lot by writing them, sometimes they're just fun to write and sometimes you just have to get the damn stories out of your head. There's more to life than being in a book you know...

*would like to point sean nelson towards tom saunders work* but as the thread doesnt have seannelson in the header, its unlikely he'll read it... oh well...

Thanks, Liana. I'd like to point seannelson toward all the good people above (then again, perhaps it might be better to hide). A book of themed short stories is certainly a way to go, Funky. Tama Yanowitz did it with Slaves of New York and Melissa Bank had recent success with The Girl's Guide to Hunting and Fishing. I'm sure there are others. Don't know of one where the order of the narrative is deconstructed as per your idea - you should definitely continue with it and I wish you the very best of luck.

The most read books are anthologies of short stories. No matter which countries you are in. Short stories rock and inspire lingering souls everywhere ... Trust mmmmmwwwwwwaaaaaaa

I recently spoke to a lady in the publishing business and she told me that it is a common misconception that publishers and agents are not interested in short stories. On the contrary, they often want to put 'themed' books together and would probably love to find new, original talent like Tom's. Martian Chronicles - superb book and yes, it is basically a series of short stories skillfully sewn together. The end result is something etheral and striking. Writing can defy convention and I for one would like to see Tom in print.

'Trainspotting' is the book of themed short stories that spring immediately to mind, or 'Jesus Son' by Denis Johnson. Jesus, I'd love to see everyone in print.

All the agents I've ever contacted or been contacted by have told me they're not really interested in short stories because publishers say collections don't sell. All of them wanted a novel - if not at first then ultimately. I was with Jane Bradish-Ellames at Curtis-Brown (big agents) for a while several years ago and she passed on my short stories from the word go and tried to get me to write another (terrible) novel. I did my best, but the whole waste of time (two years of my life) has soured me a little when it comes to the business side of the writing world. Of course, things might have changed. I'll be glad if they have. Thanks for your kind thoughts, though, Wolfie. May success come your way soon. Mark also.

You want to work on how to sell yourself, surely. If they don't like 'short stories,' don't call them 'short stories.' Be cheeky and call them 'novellas.' And take this 'themed collection' thing to heart, I'd say. Re. Funky's 'jigsaw novel.' I'm writing a similar kind of thing, but I call it a 'scrapbook novel' because it's also kind of a diary - there are anecdotes, personal thoughts, short stories and even poems - a blend of fictional and factual, and all that really binds it together is a collection of characters, principally me and my perennial ally, Manley, who emerge in some form in most of the pieces (but not all of them!) and a quintet of ladies called the five harpies. Felipe Alfau did a similar thing with both his novels, Locos and Chromos. They're essentially short story collections (he even says at the start of Locos that you can read the chapters in any order you want,) but what makes them hang together is that the same characters emerge in the different stories and reveal different aspects of themselves. Apart from that, it doesn't even take place in the same location!

Yeah it's annoying sometimes.. there are authors on this site, who I think write better than some of these published authors in the shops. I know probably the reason for these published authors success is probably down to money and who they know I guess. Money sucks man, I wish money didn't exist. But yeah there's more to writing than a being in a book.. Just don't want to see great writing become forgotten. I kind of want it to be immortalised, and remembered. I thought maybe if something gets put in a book, then it will be preserved for generations to come. Not sure if the internet will last forever, but a book might.

Back to the Martian Chronicles -- Ray Bradbury almost published solely in magazines. Why can't Tom submit his story to a Lit Mag?

...but not much more

Thank you Richard, I knew someone would get there.

*starts doing a wild Morrissey dance.*

RE: Thank you Richard, I knew someone would get there. ????uh don't know what you're trieing to say.. you're all too clever for me I guess. cynical.. why you all so cynical.. where's your fight.

tom is a fantastic asset to this site ... if nothing else ever happens as a result of ABC then tom ought to get recognition ...

It took a tattooed boy from Birkenhead, to really, really open my eyes Funky. If it helps, the only suspect who hasn't come in to acknowledge the reference is Robert. (And I meant Richardw, not Richie w) Feel safe to say Fish that after seeing that photo on thoughtcafe, I would recognise Tom, even at a old-skool-Captain-Birdseye-lookalike contest. (yes I mock the beard to sublimate that his writing makes me exceedingly jealous...)

tom is the one i would tie myself to railway tracks for ...

ooooh i do apologise for my previous posting ... am getting confused with a fantasy concerning old b&w films ... (it's a blood sugar prob ... am applying danish pastries) what i meant of course is ... tom is the one i would throw myself in front of the king's poodle for ...

Yeah Tom's a nice bloke too. I would if I had the power get him published, he deserves it. I read his stories and they're just so well-crafted, it humbles me.. Guess I've just got a bit too much fire at the moment, maybe when I've faced enough rejections from the publishing world, I'll see the truth of it. didn't mean to get so heavy..

And what would be your banner, young Haddock? "Old Blokes for Women"? Please don't get trampled by dog paws on my account. Eat your cake and listen to the wind in the trees. Give Bert a shove from me. Has he gone to sleep? I'd spend an eternity under Elton John's wig for the right to read your splendid work. What an earth is Andrew jealous about? Suspect he's an air footballer (same as an air guitarist only they wear earrings and get injured more) and can't grow a beard - at least not on his face.

Don't be daft, Funky. Say what you feel. I am cynical, but you don't have to be. I was born cynical. I came out of the womb, looked about me and said: "So what's their angle?" I'm joking, I think . . . just.

Hey Tom - I have a beard, just not as resplendent as yours. Ask Liana if you don't believe me. And I can play football - only with my left foot, and as I get older I end up playing deeper and deeper, but I can play, and over a short distance, I'm bloody quick.

Yes. Andrew has a beard. And ive even sat next to him in a pub,and managed not to scream. I think im getting better. *takes a deep breath*

Hmm. It's one way to make a woman scream, I suppose. Something of an ambition for a lot of men. I've haven't played football in forty years. I say played, but in reality I was one of those skinny, blue-kneed little lads who stood shivering in their shin pads by their own goal. My first and only strip (to show you how ancient I am) was the red and white stripes of Stoke, team of the greatest soccer player of all time, the first soccer knight, a man who played professionally into his fifties (!), who never in his whole life had a hair-do or a million pounds or ate any kind of spice.

Tom - you're totally right about short stories being generally ignored by publishers over here - but not necessarily but those in the US, where they are much more into shorter stuff. Have you ever sent anything to say, the New Yorker? If you had a number of your stories published in magazines etc (and I have no doubt you could), then publishers might consider sticking them together in a collection.

Yes, Julian, I have sent stuff to the New Yorker and other magazines in the States. No luck, apart from e-zines, so far. I trust you're doing the same thing, as your own stories are excellent.

I'm glad you think so Tom - as yet I haven't sent anything out, but the US will be where I look if I ever do. Mind you, I don't hold out much hope if you've been knocked back. How DO people get stuff in print?????

*scratches head in puzzlement* Who knows? I'm perhaps not the ideal person to ask. I think there's an element of cometh the hour etc. I'm sure it helps if your work seems, however approximately, to fit in with some current trend or category of fiction. If the reader/editor/publisher can say to themselves and the world that you're the shiny new Joly/Joseph Bloggs. I don't imagine it hinders you if you're young and attractive and "well-spoken" and therefore easier to market. Also, most of the people in the book trade are middle-class and I sense they're more comfortable dealing with authors who share a similar background - no conspiracy here, just human nature. Likewise, this might make it harder for them to understand work that's in any way critical of the social mores they've grown up with themselves and inevitably perceive to be the norm. As I say, who knows? Just have to try and write better in the future, I suppose. Could be we're the problem.

Something I've noticed about the American short story market is that it is virtually *essential* that your story has a North American setting and ethos. They are very parochial in their tastes, they won't buy a story that's set in Blighty. The Canadians will, but not the Yanks.

Very true. American E-zines aren't quite as bad, but there's seldom any money in them and absolutely no kudos.

but that's not all, for, afterwards, i will be leading you through to the winner of the first illusionary gold-plated cherry of 2002 for most grotesque simile/metaphor in a forum posting... *goes off to search through Andrew's postings.*