The site and myself.

Author: choose (81.144.157.---) Date: 04-19-04 10:03 I may be wrong, Missi (and I'm sure you'll put me straight if I am) but two that spring immediately to mind are Tom Saunders and Chant. ................................... As Andrew said, Tom is hardly likely to have drawn any degree of enmity from anyone on this site, let alone sufficient to drive him away. He obviously had his reasons for moving on but I'm not aware that he confided them to anyone. Chant on the other hand was one of those that gobbed off about things he knew f.uck all about. Others may like him but personally I thought he was a turd and still do. Whatever HIS reasons were for departing I'm happy that he had them. The General Discussion forum has always been a hotbed of controversy and I hope it never changes. It reflects real life. I know it can be a bit daunting for those with delicate sensibilities but to homogenise it would destroy it altogether and it would then not be worth logging in to. As Andrew rightly says, the most active forum on a writers site SHOULD be the one about writing. Perhaps the 'writers' should consider Gen Diss a sideshow for writers rehab. I rarely go on the other forums but when I do I try to confine myself to the spirit of the thread. i'll stick my head out here and say I don't think I've ever got into a row on the 'serious' forums (I've no doubt if I have Dicko or Cockweasel, aided by super sleuth Mykle, will put me straight) Why IS it that so many people that despise the cut and thrust of the Gen Diss bother to go onto it when they can stay in the relative calm waters of four other fora? I suspect that like those that they complain about, they just like to have something to complain about.

For an interesting thread on the 'serious' "writing from ABCtales" forum try It covers freedom of speech and unsuitable material and explodes into a good, old fashioned, verbal punch up!

While I don't read every thread, I have to say that I have never seen anyone be unpleasant to you Jay. I think you're one of those people that is roundly liked by most people. I do hope that your message wasn't a dig at Liana, as I don't think that would be justified. The only people who have been driven away from this site, if any, are people who have tried to play silly beggars and found that eventually they couldn't put up with Stormy and Mississippi telling them so. You don't fall into that category. There are, of course, people who are sensitive and sometimes feel that the strength with which people express their views means that they feel that they'd rather take a break until everyone cools down. I think you fall into the latter camp, and fair enough. I'm not having a go at you, Jay, but this for me is one of those times to put aside past differences and all come together. abc may sometimes be a bit intimidating for quiet flowers, as we have some very strong personalities, but there's a world of difference between people choosing not to participate for a while and being 'driven out'. Some people, who have their own strong personalities, prefer to spend time online elsewhere, and that's fine too. I know in the past that you've thought I was having a go at you, when this was far from my intention. I'm pleased to see you back.

Dare I look?

I did

And?

A chap called Paul Mellette was calling everybody names for criticising his story about torturing a woman.........he got a right doing.

Well as it happens that resulted in one of very few threads that got deleted

Here is some very interesting back-ground to the earlier thread. Torturing Tanya Author: Tony Cook (---.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Date: 03-19-02 16:48 This story by Paul Melville (Mellette) is very long and it is also extremely sexually violent. Read it at your own risk. It's about as close to acceptable as we go but I'd be very interested in anyone's views as to whether we are correct in accepting it. But do be warned it is very gruesome and the violence is directed against women. It's also well written and well constructed. [%sig%]

Sorry, bad link! This should fix it.

Lots of interesting threads then though at that time on the 'Discuss writing forum,' everybody seemed happier and there seemed to be loads more contributors.

Being a newbie I noticed a big difference in the nature of the threads too, as you say Flash...interesting.

This link is very amusing and it is more like reading a chapter of a book with characters rather than a normal thread. It will make you laugh! [%sig%]

Andorra ok I am no expert but that was one of the most well put together and nices apologies I have ever seen and have to tell you now it did shake me, I don't know why probably because I don't know you but I was expecting a right slagging off which I would not have answered because as I wrote, for me, the subject is closed but this I found so compelling I had to answer if only to say a big thankyou. I have a saying I can take and handle most of the knocks in this world as since childhood thats all my life has ever been but to be shown kindness is such a big thing to me I just love and embrace it so much so, I just fall to peices trying to handle it but do know I am going soft in my old age and dread to think two more years never mind the big 40 I will be the big 80 thats of cause if I am around that long in this oh so quiet world at the moment, I say this because in the last few days I have gone completly deaf and although their are much worse things in the world its still not very nice. Really must stop this maudlin and thinking out loud and get to my bed so night one and all...

Good night, 'Jay' and may you sleep tight - and wake up with your hearing cleared. (Must be awful! - hope it's only temporary!) Very much appreciate this reply - as you said, the subject is closed, but your big thank you has to get a quick and very grateful big thank you from me. All best and warmest wishes to you, Jay, (Andorra)

Ok Jeff will do - you don't mind brilliant shocking green - its a bit like those safety jackets that the police wear - you know the ones that you can see in the dark - only it was in a bag of wool I found in oxfam *puts on dark glasses and starts to knitting*

The Torturing Tanya was quite an extreme thread - the story provoked a lot of reaction and it got fairly heated. Having read some of the stuff by the same author that DID not make it through the spike, I can only say that although Tony and I were very against the idea of censorship, I am 100% confident, even nearly two years on that we made the right decision about the story he is complaining about abc not printing.

Well if it's glow in the dark, that makes sense for crossing the road on dark winter's evenings etc. Many thanks in advance, Pi. You will not go unrewarded for this!

well hope you like it Dr Who lenght and with huge holes in it ...

Jay, nice to see you back. Gouri :-)))))) [%sig%]

Hi Jay Glad you're back to bring the voice of reason here again. Your wisdom & sense of fun has been missed.

Hi Sabelle, Vicky, Andrea, AJ and others who welcomed me back thanks so much for that. In answer to your question Tony sad to say not a lot only sitting on the side watching so many loved ones drift out of my life never to return and getting lonelier by the minute it was one of the reasons why I returned hoping to hear at least a few kind voices and very! nice to be able to say I have found them, also great!! how ABC never lets you down. Stephen how lovely to know I have been part of some ones dream especially when that some one is you and in "no way" have I forgotten that actually did happen in real life only wish I had made more of it at the time. Oh to have "so many" missed opportunities in life back again.

What arrives in the Spring, and spends all its time bleating? Why, a lamb of course.

It's nice to have you back, Jay. I've missed you. It's best to just ignore it when you get criticised on here. It happens to all of us. I think the best response is not even to reply. You have got friends here, so lets hope you don't go away again.

I've never met you, Jay, but I always enjoy reading your posts and I know you are held in high regard on this site and the forums. I agree with Vicky completely. It's good - nay, calming even- to have a huff every once in a blue moon, but good to come back too. [%sig%]

Hello Jay I've never ever fallen out with you so to be honest i'm bit puzzled by your remarks. But whatever it was that i did *scratches head* that you took deep offence to, apologies if i have gone over the line, but i don't think i have? Anyway I hope that's now water under the bridge. So again welcome back and i too enjoy reading your contributions and look forward sharing little online quips with you again. Respect Flashy.

Flash just as we seem to be hopefully! getting on to better terms again like we once where a long time ago, I really mean it when I say I am so sorry to be rocking the boat once again. I'm one off the worlds best hoarders of most things and that includes words and Memory this is only by way of explaining my thread to you not to start world war three all over again. I!! am equally as puzzled by your!! thread and maybe its so much better that unlike mine your memory is a short one which makes the hurts of peoples words fade quicker with time because the falling out we had was very big that we both ignored one another from then on until now that’s why I was so!! pleased!! to see your welcome back thread and said so. I do hope that clears that up but if not I can and will e-mail you with the details if you so wish but would rather forget it and start a fresh especially as you have made a kindly gesture and I have no wish to degrade that. Love!!! the word Respect you ended with and I send the same back to You!! Jay...

Hi d.beswetherick such a long name but do remember it of old anyway if we speak again how can I shorten it as I can't spell very well but no worries if you would rather not. Thanks for the welcome and the wise words just what the doctor ordered... Jeff you have the same name which I gave to my wonderful eldest son 53ys ago and have never regretted it so you go in my good books straight away even though up till now we have never spoken, I do remember being one of the first to take young Vicky under my elderly wing and have never regretted that either. Hopefully we will speak again and thanks for the mail...

Hello Jay - I got a pic nic ready if we need to sit out in the wayside should anything anything untoward happen ! Nice to see you back too Pi xx

yes Jay, you are infinitely more interesting than 62.189.219 but do put us out of our misery. I do so hate allusions and delusions yours, with no illusions Pert (mostly)

I've been using UKA mainly for quite a while now, not because I've 'deserted' ABC, it's just that UKA suits my way of working better. I've never been one much for forums anywhere - mainly because I don't have the time to make any regular contribution. On UKA it's much easier to give and receive comments on writing - at the point of each piece of work - which is much more useful to me (and believe me, they're not all superficial praise, but they are usually constructive). Having said that, I have been involved with ABC almost from the beginning and the encouragement and support I've had (and I hope have given) has always been great. I've been involved with a lot of the live events which have been highlights for me and have given me the opportunity to meet some of the amazing characters whose words grace this site. People come and go of course, that's life, but the co-existence of ABC and UKA should be a cause for celebration for writers and readers everywhere - lfie was a hell of a lot more isolated for writers before their existence. We all find places where we're most comfortable or challenged, accepted or marginalised, praised or ridiculed. The important thing is to have these places to go to and be thankful that people are prepared to run them - it ain't an easy job. If either ABC or UKA should disappear it would be a sad day for all of us. Gettin' off me high horse now - John.

Hi Gouri hate to say this but can't recall who you are, no matter though thanks for your kind remark...

(Perhaps this last message by Barenib could be reposted in the ABC/UKA thread? *Just a thought*)

'The only people who have been driven away from this site, if any, are people who have tried to play silly beggars and found that eventually they couldn't put up with Stormy and Mississippi telling them so. ' I can think of a few notable exceptions Andrew.

Oh Pioden its sooooooo lovely to hear from you, I am always ready to sit in the wayside our!! special!! place with you, when your not around I miss you so just give me a moment and I will be over then we can eat that pic- nic together and catch up on all the goss. Clever arn't i at my age learning another language like that last word above soon be able to surpass even you, hope you won't get jealous when it happen's I wouldn't hold your breath though, see you soon Jay xx

I may be wrong, Missi (and I'm sure you'll put me straight if I am) but two that spring immediately to mind are Tom Saunders and Chant.

Kath, my old mate, how are you? I should have posted on here earlier but I don't get to spend too much time on the forums these days. But welcome back anyway. Love, Karl

Jay i can assure i haven't fallen out with you or been offended by anything you've ever posted about me or posted directly in response to me, i certainly haven't ignored you because you've hardly posted on here for ages. I have to say this because i disagree with you on this. If i have upset you in the past with my so called humour then i do apologise, because it certainly wasn't intended to hurt your feelings in fact the opposite to make you chuckle. Hope we're ok now. Flashy

Saw a note on the UKA and ABC thread posted yesterday from someone who had had a disagreement or upset of some kind with Jay. Could the names have been confused? (I have never seen 'Flash' argue with anyone, ever) [%sig%]

Jay we could always take up knitting now I'm a granny - a very young granny I hasten to add!

Don't hold your breath, Kath.

Must have missed that Choose. I still think that they may well have done precisely what I did - got bored of the sniping that does sometimes dog abc. I know, and like, Chant, and I think he's more than able to look after himself, though that's not to say that he might not have got tired of having to. But I still suggest that people who have left have decided to go, not been driven off. I mean, there have been people here who have had the most appalling private emails sent to them (not generally by regular forum contributors), who have stuck around. I can't imagine anyone giving Tom Saunders, who is a smashing writer and a lovely guy, the sort of stick which would have driven him away. I'm not blindly defending abc - sometimes it DOES feel too much like a little cosy club which doesn't want new members and the arguments do sometimes get wildly out of proportion to the subject matter; but I just don't feel that the accusation that regular contributors have actually driven someone off the site by making them feel unwelcome holds water. The two who might be justified in saying it has (and I'm not wanting to take sides or reopen old wounds) are still here, and they are Ralph and Paul Greco. Anyhow, as I've said a number of times on these forums - the busiest forum ought really to be discuss writing on abc, and that is generally friendly and helpful, without being too fulsome with praise. Sometimes the heat generated on general discussion makes me think that we've all gone to the cinema and spent two hours squabbling over the pic-and-mix rather than watching the bloody film.

Andorra must say I have never heard of you so I am sorry your thread did get over looked by me but I am rectifying that now. Someone mailed me which could be about the same thread you are speaking about if so I have already read it and dealt: with it, as this thread did not, I repeat!! did not, mention my name “Jay” or in fact any name and as I see it had nothing to do with me and I didn't know anything about the person apart from seeing said person's name on here. If there is an another thread somewhere and they have named!!! Me i.e. “Jay” just point me in the direction of this thread like the other very nice person did then I will be only to pleased to deal with it, also the person who wrote it. All I’m asking here is proof that my name was written! down!! then an apology from me to You will be quickly!! on its way, till then I am asking you in the nicest possible way to reframe from using my name in threads this way without proof or if you only heard it word of mouth as that could just mean anything and I think this is fair. As I wrote to the other person, I admire you speaking as you find concerning Flash and wouldn’t take that away from you as I would do the same but just a suggestion were you around when this happened as it was a very long time ago and I at the time had great time for him and believe it or not was very sad for a long time when we were having no contact, just letting you know as these are my last words on the subject unless someone can produce proof then I will eat all the humble pie you want as I will always climb down if I am definitely proved wrong that would not bother me in the least, at the moment I think enough is enough and fingers!! crossed!! judging by Flashy latest threads to me we have both hopefully agreed to disagree and are back on track once more I’m game if he is…

Karl lovely to hear from you but I know I am right when I say you will always only wish the best for me so drink up and think of me at the same time. Hope all at home are in good health and happy. Kath xx

do you mean liana?

Whilst your thinking choosey why not enlighten us all?

Andrew your last few words on the thread above starting with the word sometimes "anyhow" I thought that was great and so well put but best!! of all so witty and had me laughing so much I nearly fell of the chair I am sitting on. Take it from me I deem this as an honour as I can do with a lot more of that even if you didn't mean it like I read it, life is so boring on your own at times and laughter is such a good medicine even if we do all see things differently... Had to add I can just picture that scene.

Dear Ms Jay, I would like to apologise. You are absolutely right of course, and I will refrain from using your name loosely again, certainly. I meant no harm, but that is no excuse; I should not have said a word! I was just wondering, a bit puzzled and confused by what I had read, and thought - without thinking clearly, as I see now - that perhaps I should bring it to your attention, just in case - which was ridiculous because as you point out, I was not around at the time! and I did not have the slightest idea - not a clue - what I was talking about! - I was completely out of line, speaking in ignorance; and in any case, I should have asked permission before mentioning your name in any context. I will not do so again - and I do apologise for my actions and for any concern I may have caused. (I also assure you these were only passing thoughts as they shot through what is laughing called my head) And thank you for your note - it is much appreciated, Sincerely Andorra

hey it's funky Jay! Missed you Kath where ya been? Everyone leaves the site in a huff if you stay on long enough... my own huff only lasted about a month if I remember rightly. I guess in that way we're like a big family... there are always fallings out. We all come back in the end though. good to see you hunnie

I'm sure that's not the case! Jay - it's good to have you back. Tell us what you've been up to!