part of the reason mugabe has survived for so long is the support of south africa, if they were persuaded to drop their support for mugabe, he wouldn't be able to last, as long as they do support him, his regime can sustain, possibly beyond his life, i presume there is a mugabe dynasty...
Aww, Missi is a frustrated idealist. I am too. The problem is, frustrated idealists can be a scary lot if they seek to create their 'ideal' at any expense. Our good friend Mr. Bin Laden is _also_ an idealist; isn't he, too, interested in getting rid of offending governments with no consideration for consequences or casualties? (Ole Miss, I am NOT suggesting you are like Osama, so don't go there, k?). I suspect the lately departed JP2 was another idealist; idealists often miss out on the bigger picture.
Another triumph for democracy - a two-thirds majority. Of course we could invade to get rid of their democratic choice but it might seem a bit hypocritical, George, in view of Iraq :o0
I suspect that when we say we want to bring democracy to other countries it's the sort where WE vote for them.
Err, do you still own the Vegemite industry? It's quite tasty...
I try to qualify my 'blanket statements', eg. idealists are such-and-such, simply because, like everything else, there are always exceptions...
Jasper: You need to take the apostrophe from "native's" and pop it just after the "s" of "bastards". Also, your ellipsis use is very erratic: 3 dots, 4 dots, SIX dots for crying out loud. Surely even Fish, the Ellipsis Queen, would disapprove.
Missi: I agree with your sentiments, we haven't got the money to crush every effing corrupt government in Africa. Now, if there were a threat to us, or (dare I say it) a buck in it *ELLIPSIS*
Paul, the kangaroo jockey's use of the English language leaves a lot to be desired, as does his logic and analytical skills.
How much would it actually cost to send a few SAS guys in to take care of it, remember Entebbe?
Shacky, it wouldn't be best to wait until he dies although I accept that it would relieve the world of any kind of responsibility for rectifying the situation. His people are dying from starvation and lack of proper care whilst he lives the life of a lord for chrissakes, how can you say, 'turn your back untuil he dies'?
And I didn't say "All idealists miss out on the big picture ALL the time", now, did I? I said, "they OFTEN miss out on the big picture"; my point was, when people focus too much on what they'd LIKE to see, they sometimes miss what really IS, go into denial, etc. Like our Mr. Bin Laden being willing to kill several thousand people going to work one morning, for the sake of driving home a 'point' about imperialist America. Or, for that matter, Mr. Hitler and his 'ideal' world. Or Mr. Bush and his stupid, gormless idea that everyone in the world 'ought' to want democracy. 'Ought' being the key word.
I can't believe that there are many people who don't think the world is a better place without Sadaam Hussain as the tin-pot leader of Iraq. I also can't believe there are many people who wouldn't agree that the way he was removed was a not the way to do it.
This idea of the SAS going in to take care of Mugabe is in the realms of fantasy, Missi. Can you imagine the world headlines after such a situation? 'Brave US/UK special forces heroes take out Mugabe family and cronies.' Is that the plot of your next story? Thought it had already been done. You could put a bit of a twist to it and have nuclear armageddon as a domino-effect finale.
I can't see the likes of US/UK invading a 'rogue' state unilaterally in the future. I can't see the toothless UN doing much about it in the near future and there doesn't seem to be much appetite for a bloody overthrow in Zimbabwe itself. I'm not being flippant because I'm well aware that Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of much of southern Africa just a few years ago - and now the poor buggers are starving to death. I'm struggling to see what the world can do about it other than wait for Mugabe to die.
One final thing to 'angelic tendencies'. I just want to say that I've decided not to converse with anonymous, gutless curs.
[%sig%]
There's nothing wrong with idealism as long as it's tempered with liberal amounts of realism. Not all idealism relates to world affairs either. I guess we all have a degree of idealism in us, it's what takes over from childhood dreams I guess. Your contention that idealists are scary may hold some truth, but I suggest that is mainly in the eyes of the pacifists that would sooner lay down and die than fight for right. Anyway, I wouldn't pursue an idealistic vision at ANY cost, but where the lives and deaths of innocents are concerned there has to be a quick decision to reduce the suffering to a minimum. I know that in every case of liberation there are some innocent deaths/injuries, that's inevitable and very sad, but to do nothing doesn't prevent the deaths, they just occur on a continuing basis at the behest of the tyrant in charge. If I was going to die anyway I'd far sooner it was in an attempt for justice and freedom.
Easy there big boy.
You can insult me all you want, but don't mess with the Tooth Fairy, man.
*cackles gleefully*
I don't wear lip gloss, either. But I do prefer cotton panties. They allow my freckle to breathe.
*wink*
Do you really think I'm not aware of my own hypocrisy concerning the state o' the world? Do you really think enough can ever be done to fix stuff or NOT take part in the sucking dry of the world's resources, or NOT contribute to global poverty?
Sheesh. Gimme a break. I'm doing the best I can.
I fail to see how you've revealed yourself, you have 2 different email addys, both of which I suspect are not real.
Shacky, waiting for the bastard to die achieves very little if nothing, because there will be a successor waiting in the wings who will carry on where Mugabe left off. The only way to ensure democracy is to initially impose it and then impress upon the new regime that genocide will not be tolerated.
Well if you pray with faith for this dictator, perhaps he will turn from his mixed up ways. Then instead of saving one side and killing off another, you save them both. That way you set free both the persecuted and the persecuter. Solving the problem in amicable ways for all concerned. Much better than sending in the SAS, dropping bombs or using bad thoughts and words to will the dictator to die.
(email address is correct this time btw, first two ones I admit were typed in error. However I fail to see how an email address is a way of someone confirming their identity in an invisible place such as cyberspace. Perhaps some people feel reluctant to show their email address simply because they don't want spam. Isn't that a person's right? To be all fanatical about it and condemning those that don't put email address to their names is absurd. My post wasn't there to be snide, it was a genuine statement about what I believe can be done about those who we think are evil.)
Oh Jaspie, I've seen quite a bit of the world, being a Sadge and all. Sure, get rid of Mugabe; good riddance to bad rubbish. But who ya gonna put in his place, is the question? Is the opposition party _actually_ that much better? Power corrupts, don't forget, and it seems to be more egregious in the developing world (or perhaps just less well-hidden in the media). Whoever gets into power will soon forget his/her promises and start collecting them Caddies for themselves.
>> ...Well if you pray with faith for this dictator, perhaps he will turn from his mixed up ways... <<
The mistake you make is assuming that your belief in the power of prayer trancends the divide between believers and non-believers. No amount of praying will make the slightest difference, if for no other reason than that Mugabe doesn't give a shit about anything or anyone except himself.
On a more personal level I don't believe prayer is anything other than the wishful thinking of those that can't handle reality.
Shacky, if the UN was to finally become the world police force it was partly meant to be, then all dictators could be neutralised. Once it became common knowledge that any dictator anywhere in the world would be put down by the UN they would cease to become forces within their own countries. I don't think anyone should have the right to impose their own politics on another, but the rights of freedom and democracy must overide anything else.
Oh well, that settles it then.
Leave the murderous bastard to carry on because no one's got the guts to give someone else a chance.
Anyone else.
Does it matter WHO else?
Of course it bloody doesn't.
Don't be silly. Unless you're going to put in one of your own hand-selected puppet leaders (as all colonial powers have done in the past) after the assassination, (and which is guaranteed to give you outraged cries of nationbuilding) you are bound to let due process be carried out in the country in question. In most countries like this (the exception being Costa Rica, and that's a big exception) the person who winds up in power is little better. Look at Haiti. They've had Aristide in and out of there so many times I've lost count; the Haitians kept taking him back because at least they understood his despotism.
George,
What ever happened to folks solving their own friggn' problems?
At what point in time did America or England become the world police? I'd like to know, because I never agreed to that.
Hell, it's all we can do to get the damn republicans under control, now we have to worry about another bunch of African's, and Israel, and Lebanon, and Iraq, and Afghanastan and Syria, and Pakistan and India and China and who the fuck else. I'm personally quite fed up with sending Americans across the globe to kill other people because nobody else wants to do it. Kill one, build another, kill him later, build another.
Is ok shackleton, no need to apologize.
Mississipi, we pray all the time, however most of us are unaware of it. Our thoughts, desires and will are very real entities in another dimension, which can affect others & also ourselves. If even just one person was to focus enough on wanting Mugabe to find conscience and a change of heart; if that person desired it strongly enough, they would create an entity in phsycic space which would go to mugabe and work on this very desire. The entity would keep returning to it's creator , the one who prayed for mugabe , to get more energy and power from it's master's lifeforce. It would then go back to mugabe twice as strong as before and continue in it's mission, repeating this cycle; eventually it would be strong enough to exert an influence on him, perhaps even possess him. Once it has achieved it's purpose it will dissolve back into the ether, but magabe will be a changed man. This is the very basic root of all magic - our thoughts.
Well I'm sorry to disagree with you two but I think it's every humans responsibility to defend the weak from the bullies. I'm not suggesting that the USA should sort out Africa, but the UN certainly should.
"Our thoughts, desires and will are very real entities in another dimension, which can affect others & also ourselves. If even just one person was to focus enough on wanting Mugabe to find conscience and a change of heart; if that person desired it strongly enough, they would create an entity in phsycic space which would go to mugabe and work on this very desire."
Where is psychic space anyway. Is that somewhere between Mars and Jupiter?
It's okay to disagree, don't be sorry.
My own opinion is that we're trading one type of killing for another. Killing is killing. The UN couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel. So, yeah, I agree Mugabe is a total disgrace to the human race and should not be doing what he is doing. When you say the "UN", who do you think that is....Firstly...it's going to be The United States. Always has and always will, except for France's little thingy's in North Africa, which in my opinion their own fuck'n mess to clean up.
It is one thing to defend yourself from an aggressor, it’s another to force your national will on another; which is in my opinion being an aggressor. The natural state of mankind is war. Why on earth does everybody need to “get in on the act?” In order for killing to stop, somebody has to stop killing. I say, I’m first!
Sadly Denver, and I'm sick of saying this, sometimes peace has to be fought for, and that means killing. When I refer to the UN, as I have many times in the past, I don't actually mean the UN as it exists at present, but the UN as was envisaged when it was formed. Every country taking part and sharing all responsibilities. Until such time as we have a WORLD authority there will always be wars.
Well, I'll point out something you are probably already aware of. From the point of view of an American, the United States will never allow our national security decisions to be made by foreign governments. We reserve the right to defend ourselves as we see fit.
Now, that's the official line.
The UN is and will always be the mutual aid society and nothing more. It should have never taken on the role of military regulator, because, that by virtue of implication means the most powerful members become regulators. If the UN became the ultimate authority, eventually, those that felt supressed by it would rise and oppose it by force. No matter what country you are from, no matter how long we live, there will always be somebody ready to take up arms against what they determine to be a mortal enemy. The US is slipping into this role now, we don't represent the world and we can't make the world the way we want it and we shouldn't make the world the way we want it when ever we feel like it. We protect our national interests just like any other nation, we just happen to be the baddest ass on the block, so we get the call before anybody else. If the UN took that role on, then the same shit would happen, only then it would be the UN that was the big bully.
I quit being some other asshole's trigger man long ago.
Last we reported, McDonalds was importing Australian and New Zealand beef as a test, but it's always fun to start talking about the rain forrest and trying to place any large corporation behind the bulldozers plowing down Brazilian trees. Another example of "poop between the ears." You've been reading the wrong newspapers J-lo.
WEll i can see that's not gonna change. As it happens I think Britain is responsible for most of the African problems, along with the other colonial powers that used the place for 100years or more. It's our responsibility to rid the continent of wan.kers like Mugabe, we should sort him out, or maybe send a few Aussies in to talk to him.
Pages