How do you critique?

I've got two ways - one is shorter. Keep a notepad beside you and write down the stuff that works really well and anything that jars and just tell the person. The other way is to cut and paste the piece into your word-processor and give a line by line commentary, putting in bold your thoughts. Or you can just tell the person honestly but with a bit of respect what you thought of the piece...

1. POV 2. Pace 3. Dialogue 4. Flow 5. Coherence 6. Premise 7. Phrasing 8. Exposition 9. Show/Tell 10. Hook These are a few of what editors daily apply to stories and novels to select the best among them.

Fine for stories..not so good for poetry Penumbra. Andrews 2nd and 3rd suggestions are the best way to go with critiquing poetry. One thing to remember though, is that poetry is often (not always) a very personal thing to the person that wrote it, and they may not respond well to a unsolicited crit. If you are writing to someone who hasnt requested a crit, it may be good form to ask if they would like you to offer suggestions about the poem. The 3rd suggestion, is really the best, and the one I apply most often. If I like something, I usually email the author with a brief note saying well done or words to that effect. (As Andrew will testify) :o)

'Honesty with a bit of respect' is good, but that's the tricky bit isn't it? I think me using the word 'formula' was a bit of a mistake though. Penumbra's rules may work, but if you can judge these things by a formula, then it inducates that you're probably writing to one, and that's not always a good (not necessarily a bad) thing. Purplecats 'Banishing Major D' for instance. I could criticise that on a 'show, don't tell' level, for its very precise explanation towards the end of the metaphor in the characters. But it was a very deliberate choice by the author. To criticise that would seem a bit pointless. We can all judge our own work on these ten points without others doing so. I don't know about others, but for me the point of the critiquing section would be to get a more honest response from people. For readers to think about what is right AND wrong about the piece. Obviously I would like SOME respect, no name calling etc.; its just getting the balance right that's the tricky thing. 'Love is in the inbetweens' is probably the piece I've worked hardest at, but one I still don't feel quite satisfied about. I've asked for it to be critiqued because I'm interested in what people think is lacking in the piece from their point of view. Why do others want to be critiqued? Have you a set of questions that you'd like answered about it? That would make it easier.

which one's Love is in the Inbetweens - the one where he's written the letter himself but is passing it off as the work of the lover of the old woman who died? (i can't remember off-hand.) if it's that one, i was wondering, have you given us two chapters from the same story, one near the beginning where the girl first meets the old woman while drawing her at the art class and one from the middle (the inbetweens one)? i like your writing a lot, Johnny. i think you're one of the best on the site. i thought Pointless was very funny. and the line from that other story about the coat being spread out in the middle of the floor as if to be admired - that was you, wasn't it? - was excellent. your writing comes across as being very carefully crafted, so it doesn't surprise me that you're obsessing about 'Love is..' being not quite right. if it's the one i think it is, i can't remember finding any faults in it (and most of the time i do find faults because i'm a super-critical bast...). i'll have a look at it again though and see if i can think of anything. with regard to critiquing, i think that you should just say whatever comes into your head about a piece. and if nothing comes into your head then say that. i don't think that you should use a five-point plan.

Thanks, Chant. I'm really happy that you remember the pieces. That alone has made my day. They (Beginnings and Love is in the Inbetweens) are meant to be pieces which involve the same characters, set about ten years apart I think. I'm not sure whether they're chapters or short stories on there own, or both. You're right I think. I guess critiquing just sticking your neck out and saying what you think. Probably making much more of it than I should. And why doesn't your piece on the critiquing list exist?

oh yeah - took that piece off the site ages ago. the link on the critiquing page obviously still remained. will ask Emily to remove it.