Purplecat's response to Karl Wiggins

Well said, Purplecat. ============= skydolphin

Okay, I’m willing to be educated. That would make sense. If the chemicals that certain drugs are made up of can put you on a high, then the reverse has to be true. Certain chemicals, or rather the lack of them, can bring you down. Let me see if I’ve got this. As I understand it the brain’s full of cells called neurons, right? And they kind of regulate everything we think and do. But in order to be able to accomplish this they’ve got to talk to each other. Now, you and I have the advantage of e-mail and an ABCtales message-board system, but they don’t, right? So they’re forced to squirt out chemicals, which act like kind of transmitters. Or “neurotransmitters” if there is such a word. And seeing as it hasn’t got a red squiggle underneath it, I’m assuming there is. Serotonin, which does have a red squiggle underneath it, is a transmitter. A kind of gofer running between the neurons. How am I doing so far? Now these transmitters kind of chill out in the space between the neurons, smoking a doobie and waiting for the neuron bus to come along and whiz them off to deliver their messages. But if there aren’t enough transmitters then the message can’t be sent, right? What message? Well, the message, “BE HAPPY,” for instance. So if the transmitter dries up, the message stops. Have I got the general idea? Basically, serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. I’m starting to take your point of view. You mention poor diet, which is interesting. We need amino acids I’m told. At least I’ve been sold on the idea by the bloke in the health shop. Amino acids go into the blood stream and attempt to get into the brain as “brain food.” But some of them are only little runts of amino acids that are getting sand kicked in their faces by the other hard-nut amino acids. They tell him to @!#$ of out of it and leave the brain alone. He’s bummed out. But when you eat proteins, and particularly the proteins found in green vegetables, fruit and other water-content food, the hard-nut amino acids are taken off to the muscles and are used as muscle foods. The muscles aren’t interested in our little runt of an amino acid, and I dare say that if you were a muscle then you wouldn’t be either. What good is an amino acid that gets sand kicked in his face when you’re trying to look Rambo? Now when this runty amino acid is left behind, he’s able to sneak into the brain and sacrifice himself to the serotonin factory. Your serotonin levels rise and you feel happier. I think I’ve talked myself round to your way of thinking, although I do have three questions: 1) Is it possible that although “clinical depression” does exist, many people use the term simply as a cop-out? (And, I hasten to add, not yourself, because I can tell you’re genuine and I look forward to conversing more with you in these discussion sessions). But is it possible that some people say, “I think I’m clinically depressed” as an excuse not to go to work or do the ironing? 2) Do these people annoy you personally, who has genuinely suffered from the illness? 3) Would you agree that, contrary to all the evidence, I have a right not to believe in “clinical depression” if I choose? 4) Would you also agree that to spend £400 on a therapist instead of spending it on a party is pure stupidity?

Karl...I'll attempt to answer your questions, though you have three not four....this is just my opinion of course, and purplecat may disagree with me. 1. Yes, sadly. 2. Can I cite myself as annoying myself? As a woman diagnosed as allegedly suffering (now theres an appropriate term) from bi polar disorder, I often piss myself off, though not, as much as I piss others off, I am sure. 3. Sure you do Karl As you also have the right to disbelieve anything you damn well like. Not generally a good idea to tell someone who suffers with it that its a load of old bollocks though. (Just a tip) 4. If its a crap therapist, yep, I'd agree. A good therapist must be worth his/her weight in gold. If you find one, let me know? Mine's utter shite.

Karl, anyone who claims to have a disorder just to get out of doing things, is what's known as a malingerer. A person who says: "I think I'm clinically depressed" generally isn't. They may have a dose of the blues, but clinically depressed? No - because if you are, your brain's too befuddled to reach such a conclusion. A clinically depressed person visits their GP and cites symptoms associated with depression, and usually utters words to the effect of: "I don't know what's wrong with me". People who fake depression - do they annoy me? No, not really, the only things that annoy me are the things worth getting annoyed about, you know, the big things like poverty, war, cruelty, deprivation, etc, la la la. If someone wants to fake an illness, that's fine by me, they may not be depressed, but they certainly have SOME kind of problem if they're attention seeking. A genuine, clinically depressed person doesn't even want the phone to ring, yet alone to draw attention to themselves. As to the third issue, as far as I'm concerned, I've not joined the thought police yet, and doubt I ever will - you believe whatever you choose, it's one of your fundamental human rights. What's reality to you may not be reality to the next person and vice versa. However, whether you believe in clinical depression or not, it's a disorder that has been recognised for many years, with billions of pounds/dollars spent on research, with an active campaign by the UK government to highlight the disorder. I don't believe in fairies because I can't see any evidence confirming their existence. Medical books and journals would prove to me that clinial depression exists, even if I had never suffered from it, even if no-one had ever commited suicide or harmed themselves because of it. Spending £400 on a party or a therapist? If I had a spare £400, I'd do neither! Medicine is often subjective, what may be therapeutic to one person may be hell on earth to another. But as to what people choose to spend their money on - why should choosing therapy over a party be stupid? It's different strokes for different folks, Karl, each to his/her own and any other ghastly cliche you can think of, that I've left out! Anyhow, can we consider this discussion officially closed? A feature of a depressed mind is the inability to concentrate on one subject area for too long, and I'm afraid my brain has reached saturation point!

Thanks both. I'm very interested in this subject, as I'm sure you both know. I would dearly like to help people who are down, depressed, bummed out. But before I can help I'm well aware that I must first understand. Hence the questions. Liana knows I play the devil's advocate sometimes, and I've done so here in order to find out a little more information. No harm intended.

Funnily enough, I was going to add a comment to my earlier response, to the effect that you obviously like to play devil's advocate! I did at first think, 'is this guy trying to rattle my cage?', but obviously not - well, not too severely, anyway! No harm was truly suspected anyway!

Hi all I have just followed this thread and can heartily recommend a book that sheds all kinds of light on the subject of the brain, the mind and current strands of neoroscientific research.... Don't let that put you off.. it is not reductionist.. and you will not feel less human for reading it. It is actually quite fun to read and if you have wondered about depression, schitzophrenia and why external drugs like alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, cocaine, ecstacy etc .. have the effect they have on our states of conciousness then you may find it an interesting read: The private life of the brain by Susan A Greenfield. DYOR It would be interesting to hear your comments here.. regards, 1leg

Thanks 1legspider, I've noted this and will look out for it.