It's Spelt 'Y O U'

Martin, in this instance laziness, (or maybe downright lack of education), is nothing short of destructive of our language. Surely it's been damaged enough by the last few generations without the the current one turning it into nothing more than a collection of mobile phone messages.

The English language has always been a shifting thing... the idea that there was ever a perfect English is a myth. However, I am aghast at the overuse of puncuation. And it would help if people put nice gaps between paragraphs so we could read what they are talking about.

If we had listened to the language purists of the past we would still be talking and writing Elizabethan English. Language evolves, as the people who speak it do. That doesn't mean being lazy or sloppy is OK, I suppose.

Yes, and if we had not been influenced by the Normans we would not have words like 'miserable' as well as 'sad'.

missi, i was referring to jasper's post ;-)

There is a flip side to the laziness argument George. Not picking on you but consider...English has evolved (as stated earlier) over the centuries...it will continue to evolve. The two camps are purists and evolution. I personally think that the language is defined by its usage, not by tradition. The usage will change every generation. It's in our best interest (as old folks) to keep up with the trends rather than stick with a purist attitude. The truth is, if you don't keep up, you get left behind (wow that was deep). It's lazy to not keep up with the usage. Now, I understand the purist attitude, but it's a hopeless cause. Since when has anything remained the same over time in language?

Off every 100 words I write on this forum, I probably spend about 5 min thinking and 5 min writing it. Correcting 100 words often takes up to 30 minutes, hences why I avoid elaborating to much. Although the result of the post is never grammatically perfects, I do make a determined effort to get it as clear as time will permit. I think if if I can make the effort, then how much more should people who don't have the problems I have. I must say though, since participating on this forum, being forced to make that effort has resulted in a noticeable improvement.

God, just reading Rokkits L337 post makes me shudder. Luckily, the only forums I contribute to shoot down in flames anyone who attempts to use it. Language does evolve and change, but it is a good general principle that you should know the rules before you try to break them. If you're a poet and you want to write in text or slang for a particular, considered effect, then fine, but if you actually believe that's the way English is constructed, then you'll have problems communicating. I have seen job application letters containing the occasional text shorthand that crept through.

O Grge U Sx Bst! U R so cute when U R angry. U cud just ignore it m8! Just think! to say WWW takes longer than just saying world wide web! j

Well I think that many younger people feel that text speak is part of language, and even though it makes me shudder to see it (I always put text messages out in long hand myself), one could argue that it is a natural progression in communication, that the shortening of words and spellings makes for a more democratic spread of language and communication. Maybe. Of course, I would prefer it everyone at least knew the rules before they broke them, but compared to how it used to be (only the rich, ruling elite about to read and write just about), I'd rather have reading/writing text speak than not at all.

I hate text language, I'll admit it, but I'm not averse to language changing ... this is a good thing. I cant stand to see words like hate spelt as H8 though. It's just vile. And, in the days of predictive texting, it doesnt even save time. My eldest is the same as me... she sent me a text this morning that even had all the correct apostrophes in place. Ooh, it made me glow with pride. It's very alarming when I get a text off my dad and it's all abbreviations and so on. Makes me all seethy.

I don't think that I'm that old. I have a hard time following what everyone is saying when using these symbols. I understand the smily faces.

In total agreement with Liana...It is actually as quick these days to write in full. It actually takes me longer to work out the abbreviations, but mobiles only became commonplace when I was in my early -mid 20's. These kids have grown up with them...in a time when predictive text wasn't around! j

I just think this is the sort of thing people get worked up about, without really knowing why.

nostalgia I reckon

If I had my way everyone would have an astounding education where they became lovers of words and the English language in all its manifestations. I once met an Editor of a magazine who didn't know the difference between theres and theirs, it's and its, postboxes and postboxe's, and unbelievably are and our. I had a lovely and very funny landlord who once stormed into a bakery to tell them that did they know that their mince pies owned 52p each after seeing their sign in the window: Mince Pies' 52p He was great. As far as I can see, generations of families go through the school system without ever getting a passion for words because the schools can get by on the results of the middle class kids, and the middle class grown ups get snobby about people use it afterwards, when really, if people know how to use a language, they will. It is a damning fact that text speak is more accessable to some youngsters than their own language. I am the only one in my family to go to university, or to get A levels and to an extent, GCSEs. I was lucky, and thank my lucky stars every day for that. My cousin is 19 and still writes me emails with no capital letters, everything shortened to u and thnx and all that stuff, and wouldn't know what a paragraph was if it hit her in the face. How can this be?

tee hee, my last post was incoherent at times. And there was I going on about the correct use of language.

"Yeah...but who, pray tell, teaches them all that, goo goo garr garr baby talk bull shit to start with, Tai?" Babies naturally produce those sounds, Jasper. For example, baby normally begins with babba. daddy dadda and so on. I have a friend who refuses to talk "baby talk," with her son and he can hardly say anything. Introducing words by shortening them and having fun with words is a great way to introduce them to language. My girl currently says "die" instead of "bye." Mind, she's only 21 months, but it's a little embarrasing because she's so very sociable and when we leave places she always gives a little wave and wishes everyone dead in the sweetest manner. Off course, we're interracting on a writers site, but a discussion forum is a relaxed social environment and ppl should feel free to write in whatever manner they choose. Missi is just one of those ppl who is extremely discriminative and elitist.

It's more of a 'superiority complex' than elitism, Lola :o)

There is order in chaos. Eventually, the rules will change. They'll have to.

Order always returns to chaos, grasshopper.

Entropy Jasper.

True...we do not speak English as it was spoken 100 years ago! English itself is a hybrid language between latin and anglo-saxon. I casn just imagine some Anglo Saxon centuries ago musing... "Bloody Romans...coming over here with their poncy mosaics and central heating and they can't even bloody speak Anglo...it pisses me right off... Vacca Foeda! ...a load of bollocks!"

of course our John is right...the 2nd law of thermodynamics can be stated as "the entropy of the universe (the universe being the only true closed system) is always increasing". Entropy is the degree of dosorder...or chaos! John...you ever been the science geek at a party and everyone wants to put yur head in the microwave? Yeah...me too!

Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare. (I think some people in togas are plotting against me. )

Jude, I'm laughing my ass off right now. I just typed a whole little thingy saying almost exactly what you just said. I deleted it because my coffee finished brewing and my modem disconnected while I filled a cup. You took the words right out of my screen you little devil...

I cant help it Jude, this shit just comes in to me head! *Sticks head in microwave to save every one the trouble*

I love the smell of burning shit in the morning. It smells like.....burning shit.

Grrrrrrr!!!

I agree 100% with Liana on this. I don't mind language change but this is language destruction. One of the beautiful things about our language is how it looks on the page. Text language looks ugly and for the most part needs deciphering by many people over 14 yrs old. As Andrew says, there's nothing wrong with it either on a mobile phone or when used as poetic licence for effect in writing. I get the impression that a lot of text users believe that what they're writing is good English. I suspect it will be decades, nay centuries before books written in text-speak are to be found in any numbers on library shelves. GOOD!

Anyone interested in the English language must read 'Mother Tongue' by Bill Bryson. Yes I know it's that man again, but by crikey he's funny. But it says something about us, if it takes an American to explain the English language to us. Mind you he is an Anglophile.

I C U R A GR8 WAZZOK

>>.. ppl should feel free to write in whatever manner they choose... << I totally agree. >> ...My girl currently says "die" instead of "bye." That kids smarter than you think, I'm sure she knows what she's saying.

don't read it then....you rip the piss out of foreigners who come here who are trying to improve their english, you rip the piss of out people who make typo's, you apologise when you make a spelling mistake. You're too uptight.

Mississippi.....I agree with you completely. Text language is destroying the English language and most young people can't spell for toffee!lol And their punctuations crap(denver)rofl too. If you are going to write, you have to write fluently.imo. Whatever language you use. Mind you I can't spell and my punctuation is CRAP too! but I do try. Smiling Tai

That's good enough for me, Tai. You do your best as do most of us, and no one can ask more. Those that protest text language is just normal development are kidding themselves. Language develops over a long period of time and is slowly accepted across the spectrum of education. Does anyone really think that writing of the calibre of the classic writers in the English language will ever be seen in text-speak? For starters there is no sublety of expression, no light or shade, no anything except harsh, jagged substitutes for real words. It will eventually go the way of most of the innovations in speech and music of the last 100years.

The only shades I care about are lipgloss colours. U can stuff ur text talk. Lipgloss rules.

That doesn't look so funny on the screen, I apologise.

In a way the half the bible was written in something similar to 'text language' as the Jews didn't use vowels. Plenty of light and shade in the Old Testament though, George, so perhaps you just lack the requisite imagination or deciphering skills;o) Old programmers and DOS users will remember using similar contractions to 'texters' for similar reasons but, as mentioned earlier, it may well go out of fashion with the increasing availabilty of predictive algorithms.

Kids have trouble with G sounds too. I think the D is easier to learn. My grandaughter calls me "Dan-pa Dary" We have a little fun with it though. "Dan-pa Dary?" "Noooo, DAN-pa DARY" "Grand-pa Gary?" "Yea, Dan-Pa Dary!" Oddly enough, ask her to say Mississippi and she gets it perfectly every time.

Keep taking the pills Jasper - there's always hope, lay off the dope - and they might let you out one of these days

Another smart gurl!

Jasp-o is the type of guy that would get tossed off the fantail of the ship with his shorts around his ankles. A couple swims in the north atlantic would clear his mind up.

I thought about this last night and realised what I wanted to say was: The English language is NOT being destroyed. Once upon a time only very elite people could read and write and everyone else was buggered. Now, more and more people CAN use the English language well than ever before, and many people who once woud have not had a chance to communicate with written word, do so. Yes text speach is irritating and ugly if you are a fan of the wonderful English language. But I for one am not going to go around telling people they shouldn't do it. It really bugs me when people imagine the past as some glorious land where everything was the way it should be in the Great British Tradition. It was never like that.

Jasper, unless you have something constructive to say, don't ask me matey....I don't do time wasters. Of course parents have to teach their kids to talk, for gods sake man. You obviously didn't get much tlc as a weener, did you? Tai

hOW aBOUT iNVERTED cASE tYPING gEORGE? l8R -m8

But, I do agree that on a writers' site people should make an effort. My argument was 'in general'. So I suppose I sort of agree with missi's original post vis a vis abc.

~~**~~~ i KwiTe Like thiS do U? ~~**~~~ ** ** ~~~ **>> **** <<** ~~~ ** **

Dose that include dyslexics George?

Dislecksicks have a genuine reason for their spelling John, and are exempt, the ones I'm moaning about are just lazy bastards.