Are stories REALLY so simple?

Sounds like another bad tv movie to me.

Yep Mark - you've just described nearly every BBC or ITV Drama out there. Funny isn't it? (we obviously all relate to this). My favourite being Rosemary and Thyme... how much did they want to use that as a title, huh?

And where's the luv-interest ? Blaze Pascal and the hard but soft- underneath woman from the planning office.....(or man, if the tv movie's going out after 9 o'clock)

Oh, and you left out drug dealers and the mafia.

Look no further than Blaze Pascal's wife and the garden owner, radio...

You've forgotten the many 'experts' he knows in his field and various other field so that when our Blaze finds water strangely flowing backwards in the water feature in the local toff's pile, he can go to Professor Cuthedge at his old university who knows everything there is to know about backwards water... etc.

That's right....you have to have the "helping hand" character, the one that answers all the questions the gardner can't figure out on his own.

Ha! But then you must introduces a twist. Something to do with time reversal or influx Gravitational instability. Professors never have an essay answer.

Maybe it's heavy water, ferg...

How about a mutant snail infestation?

Or the professor did it with his new water repelling machine because he's sick of being overlooked for promotion.

Unconventional drug dealers and unconventional mafia? Rosemary and Thyme? How about: Nettles Sting: Unconventional Sunday evening drama actor and former Bergerac John Nettles teams up with unconventional tantric on the job one man band Sting to solve the crimes that other punning crime sleuth duos won't tackle. Or Currie and Rice Unconventional egg scandel ex cabinet minister Edwina Currie and fellow unconventional tory Anneka Rice try to run a takeaway restaurant, cutting corners and making do, contantly one step ahead of the health inspectors on one hand and the bank on the other. [%sig%]

Jesuzz! Could they be trying to take over the World?

OK. Perhaps mutant snails taking over the world is going a bit to far. *Gulps*

So what Mark? I don't get your point at all. Aren't their supposed to only be 7 plots for stories anyway. Rather than gripe at the basic form, shouldn't we be thinking of devloping the same universal, human and popular themes to make high art? Sure iyour example is old hat and has a dull predicatbility but isn't the art to make the story gripping from a charcter and cultural point of view, so that we are really rooting for him/her to get the water feature finished, patch up his ragged love life, change the general perceptions about garden designs, tackle sexism, racisim, inner city decay and depression and maybe get invloved in some explosions, car chases and gratuitous sex in the process? Christ, when's it on I'm hooked already? Although this does sound rather a lot like Dermot's attempt to win the Chelsea Flower Show last year...:(( [%sig%]

...well, apart from the explosions and gratutious sex that is.

You can't get away with writing a good american drama without featuring a person stranded on a road at midnight who happens to come across an empty barn complete with a clean blanket, matches and lantern.

Hero: Dammit, I'm stuck here. Where are the mutant snails? I'm so reluctant to take this role as hero, after all I'm just a landscape gardener. And although I'm a rebel, I've been a bit down on my luck recently. Random character: Arrrgghhh. I'm dying. But wait, before I do, I have to tell you something. The killer snails...they're...in...the...barn.... Hero: Excellent. Cheers mate. I'll kill all one million of them. Alone. What's that? Oh, just a death rattle. Glad you've served your purpose by progressing the plot. I'll be off then. And that right there is why I will never make a film. Ben.. [%sig%]

last and not least, we forgot the 10 year old little boy and his wonder dog, Bizzbo...the dog can read sign language, but....only in Portugese.

where's the gay interest? gotta be p.c for gawds sake, maybe the guy/gal who delivers the shrubbery? or the compost provider, wellies optional. (bit of rubber,ooh er)

Hmmm....like most things with life, or within life - MB, form and title will never denote true identity. And literary flow, although it can be logically reasoned and structured - whatever that means - always seems missing of something otherly in context, which glares back at the writer as he/she dots the I's and crosses his/her T's. Now maybe it's simply something Aristotle once referred to as 'The Greater Good'; or even an essential part of the piecemeal reproduction of mutual respect which both Popper and Ponty lacked to fathom properly, before preaching their Tactless Cookies to all mankind. But for me, 'Ether' is not an 'either or' scenario in any matter of responsibility nor consequence, due to the fact that form is always 'Given' prior to construct (ultimatum). And as all referent-conducts follow these otherly Narratives, within only one mindset - which is not consciouness either btw - everything becomes very visible and predictable if one cares to look below the surface make-up! Those concepts of random or infintum events is pure bs and waffle btw, as everything ends exactly were it begins! And history will always skew the language and image of truth by locomotion, because these stupid things called 'human natures' seem to demand to know no better nor more than it Predecessors conducts and constructs did.....ARRRRRRGHHHH! We're all simply stuck within the same old conversation, where only the colour of the objectives and letters have changed....A mere lack of imagination for some intermediate form of profit.....gedditt...how sad? If I could be a character in any sort of tale, I'd be one of those sign posts perched nearest them sharp bends, which everyone ignores or underestimates until the very second they dive off the roads shoulder and plunge helplessly into the abyss of no return! My sign would say: ))))) "DUCK STUPID" ((((( "There's No Points A-head" or "Light only bends to water, you fishy fools" PS: Fergal: you've an amazing mind here, lady, which I very much admire! Librans with a touch of Scorpio are the very hardest of all signs to mislead or fool when they in full bloom...Yes? PPS: I don't think the rest of them really listened to what you were actually suggesting here, MB! But then I am glad to discover both yours and TC's quality of mind are not to be underestimated in any way either! And thanks for reeling me back in btw, as I'm very over-protective of ART....especially Artists whom I admire the most! Bad bad Jasper

How about "Trollbridge" - Casper is a misunderstood critic who doesn't play by the rules and has to battle for acceptance in a world he didn't make, with rules he can't understand and an audience who don't care what he has to say? I think this formula does apply to a lot of commissioned TV shows (as pastiched by the Fast Show in Monkfish), but there are original ideas out there - most of them American, it has to be said - The West Wing, Sopranos, Curb your enthusiasm, Nip and Tuck, Six Feet Under, The Shield, Buffy... These cliches are still packed into most cop shows, sadly. I like the line used in Adaptation "Your script explores the idea that the cop and criminal are two sides of the same coin - for further examples see every cop movie ever made"

ha ha - Trollbridge. Lawd knows who'd play Jasper. I'm talking about those ITV Dramas starring Robson Green. You know I once saw him in an interview and he was saying how he thought that violence on TV didn't make people violent because there were still people like Jack the Ripper around before TV. I thought, okay, fair enough and thought nothing more of it until I accidentally saw a snippet of one of his dramas and there was his character saying exactly the same thing. Ha ha. He has to get his ideas from characters he plays. Ha ha. (Sorry I just don't understand the appeal of a weird Weasel boy). Also there are some really good English stuff (though they all seem to be written by Russell T Davies) but Casanova was a blinding corker of a wonderful programme. It was funny, dark, moving and had me blubbing like a baby. Doctor Who is brilliant. Erm.. I have to say that I get most excited about programmes like Nip/Tuck and *coughs* even the OC, which as a Hollyoaks equivalent basically craps all over it.

Dr Who - a wonderful series, absolutely love it!! There's a Dalek in the next episode, which should be a laff. Apparently, the Daleks are updated, they can 'swivel' and the 'plunger is a lot more now' - scary. And Casanova - a real triumph of style over content - and brilliantly marketed, although I was hoping for more shagging :( Also on my top 10 list (not that there's 10 in it) is 'The Apprentice' - which is just great fun and 'Hustle' - which is no-brainer telly, but okay as a bit of fun. Must also mention 'My Parents Are Aliens' - which is the best comedy on TV at the moment. Oh yes, can somebody shoot Dick and Dom?

I think there was a lot of content *as well* as style, which made it brilliant. Davies makes you think about the present by approaching the past in subversive ways, I think. It's clever, satirical and thought provoking. It is also good looking fluff (just like David Tennat - sheesh that man is too damned charismatic for words) Hustle *is* an example of a triumph of style over content imo, and I can't watch it because the woman annoys me too much, and that other one looks like a poor man's Malcom McDowell. The Aprentice is addictive TV... christ.. I can't believe I watched about 3 episodes all the way through. Even though it is obviously one big advert for every business Alan Sugar (sorry *Sir* Alan as all those fawning wankers call him) or any of his family have ever been part of. I don't know why I like it, but I like TV I can rant at, so that's probably why.

Hmmm...Seems like you all like 'Soap' too much...boxes! I always though Aunty Jack was a more avid reader.....must ask him next time he steps up to play Pop-Yaffle-Whiz and Sook-a-lot! Gee, and my life so desperately needs approval from you lot....but as I've only got one bum-hole, two would make me just so typically British....LOL Chin up, ladies, there's many more miles to waddle through before I let you lot sleep off them pretty toes! Oh and Fergal: Kimba, that cute little white lion would be good as me....fiff -pf pf -f-fif-fffff!

We all know your favourite program is 'Skippy' Jasp