Flirting

Well there's banter and there's something more than that, something a little creepy, the lightheartedness gone out of it.

*wonders if Ari is a light-hearted banterer, or a creepy rabbit-boiler.*

*thinks Harry is a saucepot rather than a boiler*

the flirt: saucepot or bunny-boiler?

i used to flirt ... now i am reformed ...

alcohol definitely helps you flirt, until you drink so much you become embassingly over-flirtatious....

i dont know how to flirt...

I agree with Ari. I think if it is harmless with no hidden agenda or something behind it, then it's okay. It should be fun for both concerned. Taking the situation of Lee, I suspect he got more involved than he wanted to, but allowing for the situation it is probably understandable. iceman

Over the course of a few weeks you too can become adept at the art of flirting, join us now at the Ari and Iceman School of Flirting or visit the new website shortly... iceman

I am an awful flirt as well- I just can't seem to get the hang of it. My flatmate is the biggest flirt in the world and I think it's all to do with confidence. If you want to have a laugh with someone and you bring your sexuality into play then it's flirting isn't it. Some people flirt with both sexes even if they don't fancy them but they have no intention of actually "following through". The problem is if someone else is flirting with your partner it can be really annoying especially if the partner looks like they are having a good time! If people flirt with my boyfriend I just think it is a bit disrespectful to me and that the flirter is wallowing in their own attractiveness oblivious of the effect it may be having on me! that is not to say that they hould be blamed, i just wish they wouldn't do it sometimes. I'm not worried that they are going to go off and have sex or anything but it's a bit irritating- why don't they go and flirt with soeone who's unattatched- but then maybe the safety of flirting with someone attached is that they don't present any prospect of action and the flirting is just like a baboon showing off it's bum! So when you say there's no hidden agenda maybe you should think that there might be an agenda which is hidden to you but glaringly obvious to someone who is interested in the person who is being flirted with. I have realy fancied people before and sometimes there is a flirt in the group who will spend all evening faqwning over the person I like when in fact they have no interest in them. What should I do? Counter-flirt? It's obviously an issue for me isn't it! Blimey!

Counterflirt In fact in a small group of friends this can lead to serial flirting where for some unknown reason everyone starts flirting with another. It usually ends when one party says thats it enough is enough, I'm going home. iceman

or everyone chucks their car keys in the middle! My mum is a HUGE flirt. Maybe that's why I have a problem with it. Sitting at a table as she winked and pouted her way through family friends' husbands used to drive me MAD. I'm pretty sure it stopped at flirting. Is it something to do with boredom do you think? Or is it more to do with just having a laugh and being confident of your own boundaries so that if it gets out of order you can say "I was only playing"?

ooooh dont get me started janey ...

Instead of counterflirting maybe you could execute a pre-emptive flirt so the other person gets a taste of their own medicine before they become too involved in their own flirting. I have a huge problem interpreting this stuff, as there is a serious cultural divide between America and Europe on this subject (unless something has changed since 1995). If an American woman appears to be showing interest in a man, it is very obvious and you can be virtually assured she is deliberately showing interest. There is virtually no such thing as "idle chit chat" that might be mistakenly interpreted as flirting. Either they are clearly flirting, or they are very distant and cold. There is almost no middle ground. In Europe I find that women feel comfortable with the "idle chit chat" thing in a way that I would interpret as "clearly flirting" when in fact they are just chit chating. I find myself constantly mistaking the one for the other. Maybe people should be required to wear little neon signs on their foreheads that flash "serious flirting" or "idle chit chat" depending upon their intentions. :)))))

I'm sorry but obvious flirting is, at best, attention seeking and, at worst a way of saying, I want to swap fluids at the earliest opportunity. People who flirt and then say, "no, I was only flirting", are basically keeping up a persona that is designed to capture someone but can't be switched off. It's effects are as serious to all it touches and those who get the "no entry" sign once they've decided to commit can consider themselves 'the ones that got thrown back in the water'. Many will swim in the net, only one will end up on the plate.

go on phishy get started....

This is one of the best threads ever. I'm no great flirt - I always feel soooh uncomfortable and if I'm the recipient I tend to resort to weak jokes or say something really absurd, but I really admire those that can pull it off . I actually think genetics plays a part - my mother wasn't one but my dad, when sober, can flirt for England and apply charm like a professional masseur. However, there are areas that are decidedly dodgy. When it's harmless and there's no hidden agenda/power trip behind it it's fine - the kinda flirtin I really can't stomach is when someone does it because it's t he only way they can relate to someone of the opposite sex, or its the only way they can feel good about themselves. Er I think i'm talking manipulation. I guess that's the creepy kind talked about earlier. But I'd love to get to my seventies and be an accomplished flirt - they're the best, the toni permed, power puffed, arthritic darlings that get everyone running rings round them.

uh oh. *awaits blast*

There was a TV show on last night (I think it is every Weds) about "dating makeovers." Last night the subject was a 30 year old male engineer. They "fixed" his wardrobe, taped him during a practice date with an actress who was flirting with him, gave him assignments to improve self-confidence, etc. It was embarassing. Last week's show was similar but the makeover subject was female. Also embarassing. These shows seem to be very popular. I've run across 3-4 variations on the theme. Maybe someone from abc should volunteer for the television show. Not me, though.

I don't know how to flirt either... I only attempt it if I'm actually going out with someone, so pretty much almost never. I think the way it's interpreted depends on the flirter. For example, if my friends saw me throwing myself at someone, they'd probably try to exorcise me because I'm usually so uptight and serious and shy, too much so. It would give definite I-really-need-you-to-like-me messages to the flirtee(?). If you know someone is just having a laugh then it's not really a big deal. I think it's only ever harmless though when two flirters are flirting with each other. People who can flirt are usually quite confident and secure and can deal with the mixed messages and possible rejection. But, for example, if someone flirts relentlessly with me, I find it really intimidating. There's a pressure to say something funny back. I find it creepy if I think they're really unnattractive. And if you flirt with someone who really likes you (which you might not know about) but you have no intention of anything developing, that's pulling them towards you with one hand and pushing them away with the other, which is unfair. And then there's the thing that janey mentioned about flirting with people who are attached, which can really upset people. I've noticed with some friends of mine that if I tell them I fancy a bloke, they'll suddenly start flirting with him all the time. I don't know why girls do that, but I don't think counter-flirting works because if you really care about someone's opinion, you won't look casual enough to pull it off.

Wolves never flirt. We mate or sniff each bottoms but never, ever twiddle our whiskers at a member of the opposite sex... *Abctalers make mental note to turn their backs to the wall when Wolfie is in the vicinity and think about clubbing together for a mammoth tube of Immac* Liana can not flirt. Excuse me while I laugh into my fur...

OK, picture this: You are at a party and you see someone who looks a bit out of it (a fish out of water) and they are really good looking in your eyes. Let's assume that you are in a permanent relationship but your partner is not with you (they are on a trip, say) and you know exactly three people at the party, two of whom are really only acquaintances. The good looking outsider approaches you and starts talking about the party or the weather. Then asks if you would like a drink. You can tell that they are interested in you, maybe because they consider you exciting or different from the other party goers. At one point do you start flirting with them or them with you? The moment they walk across to you? The moment they start speaking to you? The moment they ask you if you would like a drink? OR The moment you accept their offer for them to get you a drink? iceman

Hovis at 75ys you have just described me on your thread and suddenly life is wonderful...

Flirting can be an enjoyable, harmless, consenting adult behaviour. The enjoyable and harmless bit depends on the consenting and adult bit.

I can't flirt, I'm hopeless at it, I tend to gawk at boys I fancy from afar, wishing I could do something to make them notice me without flirting because I know I can't. It's not like I'm scared of boys or anything because my best friend is a boy and I've got lots of boy mates. But I just can't get the hang of it. :( I don't think it's wrong particularly unless you're doing it without actually finding the person attractive, with the direct intention of getting them to like you anyway so you'll have an admirer. I think that's cruel. I find certain types of flirting annoying, for instance there's a girl in my class who uses a method I call 'boob ambush', she propells herself towards a boy with her chest thrust thrust so far out that it looks like she'll fall over from being so top heavy, and her arms flailing behind. He ends up staring into her cleavage. Then she'll challenge him with a question or something, whatever he answers she'll pretend to be offended by it, just so she can have an excuse to push him, poke him, whatever. Usually I would find her method funny but she spends a lot of time draping herself around a boy I like. Grrr. Worst thing is he seems to enjoy it. Oh well… tastless git. :D

When I was younger I used to be the sympathetic shoulder for girls to cry on when they had split up with their boyfriend or lost one to another. But I made a rule not to get involved with them as it could be seen to taking advantage of the situation. Actually I remember now that because of what I wore and the way I used to stand up in the pub and look around at every body before I got another pint I scared people, without realising. I was utterly ruthless with people who tried to touch up my girlfriend.

hmmm ... well my take on this flirting business is that it can be a way of avoiding real emotional contact with someone ... it's a cover or a manner which conveniently hides the actual person inside ... it's a way of communicating in a very superficial fashion ... the real habitual flirts of this world are not using it as a sexual "in" with someone and in the worst cases can become stuck in this social behaviour and will flirt with anyone of any age or gender ... in this i think it a serious matter and a symptom of some kind of sociopathic personality disorder ... other types of flirts are using it as an sexual exploration ... it's a safe way of testing the water ... if it doesn't work (get the desired response) then it's possible for both parties to retreat without losing face or feeling rejected ... there is a massive element of self deception involved ... if the other person doesn't show interest the flirter can reassure themselves by saying they didn't mean it anyway ... and yes it can be harmless fun i suppose ... a mutual ego massage if you like ... but it's the difference between fast food and a good meal i think ... ultimately disappointing and leaving the flirter hungry for the next snack ... the real (and potentially more dangerous) option is a real honest transaction between people where genuine feelings are exchanged ... i think only this can really satisfy ... i have thought about flirting a lot in the past few months and those are the conclusions i have come to ... you lot who sound disappointed about not being able to flirt ought to thank your lucky stars ... *gets down off soapbox*

i STILL dont know how to flirt......

*chokes on pimms*

wha???? wha?

That paints us into a dark corner without much light doesn't it phish? iceman

Liana, have you got the torch, its very dark in here...

torch? i havent got a clue let alone a torch *feels hurt*

I never flirt...no one would take me serious!

I see we're talking about serious vamping here. I was talking about mildly salacious wisecracking. Serious vamps scare the life out of me. As for deep conversations, well they can be good too. But it's bad manners to mistake the different levels of exchange and get inappropriately heavy, so I think everyone is a little wary of getting caught out in that way. A conversation can be light without being some sort of evasion. Sometimes it's pleasant just to pass the time of day.

Hope you get to read this Hovis as have only just seen your post and the answer is yes!!! Please tell me more as I'm up for that. Some time ago I wrote a bit of a sitcom and a serious play but never sent them anywhere, I always wanted and still do to find guidance of some sort to write more of the same and in my younger days would have loved to have done some acting but not now as I would lose track of the lines...

Good for you Jay. It's a sad fact of life that people are judged more on how they look than who they are. Only with maturity comes the knowlege That people are people are people, some are good, some are bad and most are a balanced mixture of both. Still love to flirt though ;-)

far to OLD to flirt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah right aj ...

Now I feel guilty. Sorry Liana iceman

Would just like to clarify that I'm a flirt of the light-hearted and harmless variety.

so am i :)

Alcohol can definitely help the flirting process, but folks, remember - too much alcohol will lower your inhibitions, and could place you in a dangerous situtation! Remember - dress to pull! Wear fabrics that the object of your attentions will want to touch - velvet, silk, leather, etc. More tips coming soon! Iceman, it's over to you.

Its very important to find something common that the other person wants to talk about. With flirting you can bore people by talking about yourself endlessly. No, link with something the other person wants to talk about, even themselves. Ask them what they do, try to find a common ground on music or fashion. In doing this you step aside from whatever feeling you may have for the gorgeous person you are talking to. All that can come later, but first you need to make first contact. Flirting can be tactile. You can cuddle the person once you begin to know them and them you. Maybe even kiss them, but not on the mouth. Read their body language, read their reactions and bail if they are clearly not interested, don't stand there making like a goldfish, it will disconcert them and make them think you are strange. Be happy. Smile, Blink. And most of all, be confident.

*remains quiet*

Best option really

I just wouldn't have a clue.............about flirting I mean........anyone know where I can take lesson's, would show my gratitude to said someone....

Avoid dodgy chat up lines. Anything that starts with 'Hey baby' or 'get your coat' is a huge NO!

me too jay.... i need help to learn this art.....

The best lines are ones that dont lead the other person to think that you are chatting them up, but more that you are just chatting. And most important, dont make the mistake of trying to apologise if you think things aren't going as expected, dont start by saying "I'm sorry." It forces the other person to recognise that you think you have offended when in fact they noted it but ignored it because, well it was no big deal....