5yrs for baby rape!

Lets turn this around a bit.... It may sound crazy but think it through.. Does the an acknowledged victim have any responsibilities towards whomever during and in the aftermath of a crime e.g. such as rape? If so what are they? (In the sense of a young child this question is an even more difficult one... but you could take 'aftermath' as being adulthood)

Thought it through Gerry and yes, it's crazy.

no.....because to suffer it, you would never want to inflict it

In today's world the victim is always blamed. HOW CAN YOU BLAME A BABY? If I took a stick and battered my child because they were naughty, is that OK. I'm sure you'd say no. So why should we absolve a man for this heinous crime?

It's not a question of whether babyrape is wrong or not though. It's a question of the correct moral response on *our* part. I, for one, do not feel punishment for its own ends is right. There's no objective justification for it - it just sates people's need for revenge. It might 'feel' right for some of you, but that's no more justified than his actions, since those who want revenge are acting on a sense as primitive and destructive as whatever drove him to act in such a maniacal fashion. Your guts have no more rationality than his groin. The only moral purpose of jail as far as I'm concerned is to keep people from doing others harm, and it barely serves that purpose. 5 years is absurd because it isn't long enough to keep this guy away from other potential victims for the rest of his days, and it's doing nothing to reform him. The ideal is absolute reform - failing that, (as we tend to,) he should just be kept from doing harm. He *shouldn't* be subjected to abuse and harm himself. If your only objection to violence and crime is based on how lil cute an' innocent the victim is - if you think abuse and harm are fine as long as they're directed on society's undesirables - then your ideas of justice are inevitably grossly flawed, and I'm damn glad someone else is doing the lawyering.

well said Sabelle. Tis peeps that advocate for the perpertrator that negates the victims rights

Oh dear, it's nearly chucking out time at the Dog and Duck, we're due for a dose of self-induced dyslexia any minute.

"I'm damn glad someone else is doing the lawyering." .......you know what so am I. Cos for you to dish out sentencing would be to allow for more abuse, murders, rape etc.

Hen Serisouly, "how cute and innocent"? This is a baby who deserved an innocent upbringing. Raped at 13 months? If it was my child I would've tortured him within an inch of his life & left him to someone else. A baby should be nurtured & protected. No one should suffer abuse at any age. It is just as heinous for an 80 year old woman as for a 13 month old baby. Can you rehabilitate a child abuser? I don't think so cos they will never get rid of the urge to sleep with a child & a child cannot give consent. It's an impossible situation. So I'd rather protect children from this abuse than worry about the abuser

"In today's world the victim is always blamed." Only when it's a gypsy, or someone else you lot dislike. AJ - I've heard your weepy story before. You never fail to ram it down our throats, and for that reason, it has no effect on me anymore. Where I once might have been moved, now I only see your cynical and sad exploitation of your past. Learn this once and for all: whatever happened to you, it doesn't justify your irrational, backward, narrow, close-minded view on things. I repeat: you don't have a damn clue about real life. You have one perspective on it - a perspective so narrow I'm surprised you can see anything at all beyond a pinhole. Now do us both a favour: don't talk to me ever again. You do everything possible with every post to destroy any seed of compassion or respect I might have for you, and you do it better than anyone else I know.

"If it was my child I would've tortured him within an inch of his life & left him to someone else." That's why I'd be damn scared if someone like you was calling the shots - your idea of justice is driven purely by emotional reaction, rather than any rational line of argument. Maybe I'd do the same as you, but I know now, and I'd know then, that it's plain wrong. And, according to you, if you willingly do wrong, then you deserve what you get. So presumably, if you were to torture this guy, you'd see nothing wrong with society flinging *you* in jail for the rest of you life? Eh? No, I don't suppose you would. Because you aren't employing a clear line of thinking. For you, like I said, it's all about who you sympathise with, and you reviles you more. That's no basis with which to judge someone's fate, which is why (I hope,) other people end up with that power.

I don't think that's fair. No one should be abused. Life is crap enough as it is without having the people who should care most for you neglecting you. My parents aren't perfect, far from it. But the one thing I know is that they love me & want the best for me. I'd hate to be without that. I love my children & would do anything to protect them. I'd want to think that if my children came to me & said they were being abused by someone I brought into my house I would take action. Even if AJ were being over-sensitive, and I don't think she is, she would have every right to be

What's the matter can't you face up to the fact that an adult can actually argue for the victim? As I recall I have never asked anybody for sympathy....indeed have always stood tall and proclaimed that I'm a survivor. When your mummy discards your dummy and disposes your last pamper, then maybe you'll start to think and act s an adult. Re never speaking to you again.......forget it. I'll always stand up against bullies, whether they appertain to be intelligent, or as dim witted as you. PS........how much did mummy and daddy pay for your education? I would certainly ask for a refund!

I'm afraid your lofty ideals will take a battering if you ever have any kids Jon. Any parent will tell you that along with the joy a baby brings is a lot of fears for them, and those fears moderate your point of view. Now whether or not you wish to be clinical and superior about your views is immaterial, the parents of kids have their own views and they are just as valid as yours, in fact more so as they have put themselves in harms way.

Hen A wrong is a wrong. Yes if I took someone's life I would deserve punishment. But I'll be damned if my 13 month old child would suffer like that & I'd allow the perpetrator to get away with 2 and a half years in prison. If I neglected my child & didn't feed them properly social services would be down on me like a ton of bricks My friend's son fell out of his buggy & when she took him to hospital she had a social worker assigned to her. Where is the justice? The law is an ass and as long as it continues to be an ass people will wreak their own revenge

What I want to know is where is MYB with his eye for an eye biblical slant when you need him!

In the Israelite times he would've been stoned to death. No prison in those days. Rehabilitation would not have come into it

The law's an ass, yeah. But it's an ass through a collective failure of humanity, and because of the fundamental difficulty (some might say impossibility,) of the problem of constructing a system that works, not because a select few are doing everything wrong. And while you and me can disagree with the sentence, we should have some respect for the moral decisions of others (when they are moral decisions - I don't include corrupt courts.) To declare every court decision that we disagree with a terrible wrong that can be solved by putting different people in power is stupid. They can't make decisions that will fit with everyone, and you have to accept that your objection is mostly emotional, and that their decision is an attempt to be rational - something that is *extremely* difficult when you're in such a position. I've got to go to bed now - so some final thoughts. I don't set out to insult people, but I get fed up with emotional blackmail, with AJ making out that her experiences somehow make her view more authoritative, and with the general implication that everything is divided into the sensible and absurd. I've got no hope for humanity at all if a bunch of intelligent people on a writing site can't see the capacity for different people of equal intelligence and equal moral fortitude to come to different conclusions about justice. You can object - you can make your argument, but please, *please* refrain from the implication that anyone who disagrees with you must be insane.

Oh they still use the stones in the civilised middle east you know.

Night Hen, don't let us keep you away from your bed now, and now on to some grown up intelligent arguments! :)

Sleep is for wimps But I feel everyone's entitled to their opinions, but as a mother of 3 children, I've seen the innocence of children & realise that it should never be abused. To be a parent is a privildge and a great responsiblity and to fully understand this issue I think you must be a parent. Emotions run high when you realise that you are responsible for this life and to be a child's guiding force. As humans we are gifted with feelings, morals, it separates us from animals (another controversial thought). We need to protect this gerneration to safeguard the next.

And you Jon, please refrain from thinking that everyone who disagrees with you, is obviously less enlightened and always wrong.

No responsibilities George??? How do you acount for some victims going on to become abusers themselves? Some victims going on to a series of abusive relationships where the cycle gets repeated again and again ? Some victims whose whole life is seemingly blighted and overwhelmed by acts that happened in the long distant past and blame all their woes on it..... ...there are others of course, who emerge as stronger individuals and go on to live productive lives where these past events are put in a proper context so that they can move on... I would suggest a victim has lots of responsibilities (and should be counseled accordingly)... primarily towards themselves and to understanding their abuser.... so that they can recognise people, motivations, situations and events that led to the abuse... if only so that if possible, they can learn to keep away from that in the future... responsibilities towards society at large... eg in reporting the crimes.... and this is the hardest of all (and controversial), acknowledging their part if any in it however small... this IMO is taking power away from the abuser, because of the implication that you CAN do something about it in the future.... Look I am not talking about the baby's or even young children's responsibilities at the time of the crime here... the responsibilities lie primarily with the guardians (who sometimes adopt the mantle of victims too in these situations), however having said that... there is plenty of the right sort of counselling that can be given to children that can properly help them to get over their experiences rather than dwell on it for a lifetime... unfortunately more often than not, the counselling is of a nature that exacerbates the problem, IMHO of course. A rape is a severe crime, of course. If it is allowed to blight a whole adult life for whatever reason... that IMO is a severer crime... I am now ready for that smack Liana. By all accounts I deserve it!

Missi, seriously, was your marriage really loveless for 32 years & do you think it made a difference. Would you do it again?

I've stayed off the forums for quite some time. I got sick and tired of the petty arguing and insults, and I've been busy doing a fair bit of writing myself. I have, however, popped in to have a little look from time to time when rearranging pieces of my own. For the most part, I've found it quite boring and have left after just a quick scan, never being tempted to post or read furher. But this issue holds my attention. First of all, Hen, I like you, but you couldn't be more wrong about AJ. She has a wealth of experience, tells it like it is and is far from being a stupid cow. The young man thinks the old man is a fool, but the old man KNOWS that the young man is a fool. That's all I want to say on that issue. No hard feelings. Back to the main issue. Unlike AJ I haven't been "seriously" sexually abused. Everyone's suffered some form of sexual abuse in one form or another, including me, but as I said I haven't been "seriously" abused. However, I studied sexual abuse and when I had a practice numbered a number of survivors in my clientele, some of whom had suffered cult abuse and much worse things than most of you can imagine. Worse than happened to this poor child even. Trust me, you don''t want to know the details. So I know a little bit about the subject, and feel qualified to explain the laws of cause & effect. It's certainly true that about 99.9% of abusers are actually survivors themselves, but that equation does not work in reverse. In other words 99.9% of survivors do not become abusers themselves, far from it. And what must be made clear is that for those who do it can never be used as an excuse. It may be a reason, but it's not an excuse. Something Chrissie might like to bear in mind. So is it possible to change a rapist's thought processes so that he is no longer sexually attracted to children? I believe so. I'm attracted to women. I like boobs and legs and arses and round squashy bits and firmer bits and soft lips and so on. That's just the way I was made. Or is it? Women have a lot of curves and I like curves, especially women's curves. And I can't help watching them, in the gym, in the street, everywhere. I'm not unique in this, of course. It's what normal healthy males do. But some, obviously, have a cog or two out of place and are sexually attracted to young children. And changing the subject slightly, I've never been attracted to women who shave their nether regions. It does nothing for me, and I kind of harbour suspicions that men who are attracted to shaved pussies may also be attracted to very young girls. I'm probably wrong in this, but I can't shake the feeling. Back to the guy who has a cog or two out of place and who finds himself sexually attracted to young children. Is it his fault? I'm not so sure that it is. Is it wrong? I don't know. We all harbour thoughts that are naughty. We all look at an attractive girl and think, "Christ, I'd like to grab hold of her tits!" But we don't do we? We enjoy the thought and move on. We don't do anymore about it. You see it's those few people who do something about that thought that are doing something wrong. The people who grab hold of a girl's tits on a late night train and the ones who rape a baby. One is worse than other, but it's all sexual abuse. And there's a big difference between wondering if you can see up a girl's skirt when she sits down and thinking of a baby in sexual terms. So is it curable? I believe so. We already know that it's a simple process to change the way a person thinks - to change the visual, auditory and kinesthetic submodalities that formulate the way he processes his thoughts - about, say, an apple and a hamburger. The guy might love hamburgers and if we can find out the exact thought processes he uses to go from feeling hungry to sitting in Burger King, we can quite easily train his mind - at a deep subconscious level - to use those same thought processes from feeling hungry to finding himself at a fruit stall buying an apple. We can very easily make him visualise a carrot in the same way he currently visualises pizza, and get the feelings that he currently has for pizza and have him have those very same feelings for carrots. So if it's possible to do all that so simply for the taste of food, then I believe that with a little more effort we could do it for a person's sexual tastes. Remember Clockwork Orange? That said, you'd have to be a saint to want to work with these people when someone with the skills could do something much more worthwhile by working with the survivors. And as for this guy in question. It wasn't just a one-off, was it? Not that we could excuse it even if it was. (Remember there may be reasons but there are no excuses). But he actually took photographs and displayed them on the web. Some people are just evil, and this is one of them. In my opinion, and this is just the way I feel, I think he should swing (you'd get 15 years for trying to rob a post office). I speak as a father. Whatever, he won't be popular in prison.

It was the 'responsibilities.. during' bit that swayed me Gerry. I'm sure your opinions and position on this are highly commendable but the one aspect of civilised society that most people look to for guidance, ie religion, as far as I know always insist on an eye for an eye. I know I'm not religious but many of the liberal thinking rationalists here are, and their stance on this is at odds with their religion. In my book that makes them hypocrites.

I ain't gonna bore everyone here going over it sadbelle but if you're really interested read 'Just Another Friday Night In Memphis', it documents the whole sad affair. And no, I wouldn't do it again and I'd advise anybody who has doubts to get out before it's too late.

I will read it. I was worried cos I feel that my kids would be damaged by being around peole who don't love nor particuarly like each other

As a parent this rape totally sickens me, but to think that tougher punishments (bring back hanging etc) is the solution is to miss a key issue. We have to face reality. This problem is not confined to a handful of freaks. It is alarmingly widespread. Child abusers in this country number in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. We need to do a lot more research to understand why so many people are drawn to this disgusting behaviour and how we can deter them. Are there more things we can do with technology (smart tags, genetic re-engineering)? Are there support systems we can put in place to steer potential offenders away from molesting children. Finding ways of reducing and ultimately eradicating this problem, has to be our number one priority. No matter how appealing it may seem, filling our prisons with perverts is no solution. It's a symbol of failure.

Nice one, parent. Missi - firstly, I doubt many 'liberal rationalists' are religious, except by upbringing. Secondly, it's possible to be religious without sticking by the 'eye for an eye' law, just as most Christians nowerdays tend to ignore the stuff in the Bible about how to treat your woman. Also, I don't think I'm right about everything, mostly because I don't have a hardline opinion on anything. Like AJ, who comes into the argument wrenching the heads off her own straw dolls, you assume that my disagreeing and countering your arguments constitutes a rigid belief in the opposite idea. You fail to acknowledge that I'm no more enamoured than you with the 5 year sentence than you. I recognise that most of what you rally against is far from ideal, but it doesn't mean the alternatives you champion are particularly appealing either, and it doesn't mean that advocates of the systems you dislike are all idiots. Your whole argument seems to be based around, "I don't like this....so therefore the extreme opposite must be much better." Sabelle - "As humans we are gifted with feelings, morals, it separates us from animals (another controversial thought). We need to protect this gerneration to safeguard the next." We're also gifted with rationality with which to plan how to do that, and employing that rationality means recognising that locking up anyone who gets caught molesting children is going to do eff all to protect the next generation, because there's always another one out there, and because jail is no deterrent. I don't know exactly what the right thing to do is, but I know we have to start by refraining from going schitzo over cases like this. Without meaning to be insulting, what strikes me is that you have no respect for the individual. You talk about the baby as a thing - as some icon or symbol, rather than an actual person. The implication that upsets me is that if that person were to grow up and become, say, a teenage hoodlum, or a burglar, or anything else we supposedly decent people dislike, your pity for that person would dry up instantly. You all have this great compassion, supposedly, for the victims, yet when they fall out of the stereotype, when they fail to look cute or frail, when the violence comes round full circle, you give up on them. It seems to me most of the passion of the 'lock him up' lot comes from an emotional reaction to ideas, rather than compassion towards any actual people. Karl - I'm sorry, but I completely disagree about AJ. Her posts yesterday evening are practically exact replicas of the first posts I ever read by her on this forum, and every one since surrounding this issue. She uses this 'walked the walk' line as a bolster for opinions that are contemptuous of other people and completely unjustifiable in any other way. I'm sure she's quite capable of 'telling it like it looks to AJ' but not 'telling it like it is.' All she ever does is throw a tantrum. I mean, her 'take' on this issue completely ignores everything you say in your post, everything reasonable anyone has to say on it. An exchange between your position and hers would be: Karl: "So is it possible to change a rapist's thought processes so that he is no longer sexually attracted to children? I believe so." AJ: "Just throw the sickos in jail and rape them! I know because it happened to me! I'm so special! Go and live in the real world, Karl!" etc. Maybe she's different in real life - I don't know - but I could do without her bile-filled rantings in the middle of any serious discussion.

>> I recognise that most of what you rally against is far from ideal, but it doesn't mean the alternatives you champion are particularly appealing either, and it doesn't mean that advocates of the systems you dislike are all idiots. Your whole argument seems to be based around, "I don't like this....so therefore the extreme opposite must be much better. << Jon, I started this thread for two reasons, the first is because I am appalled by the event at the centre of the thread and the second is because it makes a change to have a discussion about something deeper than most of the 'boring' crap topics that have flooded the forum in recent weeks. If you go back to the opening post you will see I wasn't championing anything in particular, I was asking questions about possible alternatives in the sure knowledge that an interesting discussion would ensue. You constantly twist my meanings and insert words such as 'idiot' etc to make the point that you are rational and I am some kind of brain-dead moron. It would be easy for me to repeat Karls aphorism regarding young men/old men, but that would only provoke your indignation as similar comments have in the past. The popular thinking here that we can change human nature like we can change the specification of our HiFi or car by making modifications is delusional. It's the tenacity of human nature, changing only very slowly over millenia that has enabled the species to survive. A few well-meaning sociologists and psychologists don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of changing what the last 5000yrs have failed to do. Passing legislation and then expending limitless amounts of energy trying to enforce it is useless also. Practically all human law is negative anyway. >> I don't have a hardline opinion on anything << I find this hard to believe, if nothing else you have an unshakeable belief that your logic and powers of reason are beyond question, a bit like Dicko.

Missi I got up to part 7 & can't read any more. It's so depressing. After my experience, I think that some people are incapable of love whether it's through selfishness, upbringing or what. But it makes me vary loathe to put myself through all that crap again

whether you're a parent or not a parent should not affect your ability to hold a viewpoint on this matter. The views I had before I was a parent and after I became one are the same. Some would argue that not being a parent means you are more likely to be objective and unaffected by emotion. I don't agree. I think we are all quite capable of rational thought; whether we exercise that capability is another matter.

I wish I could have got out at Part 7!

Hen, my mate, AJ couldn't possibly have ignored everything I say in my post because she wrote it BEFORE I wrote my post. I'ts hard to ignore something somebody hasn't said yet, as you very well know. You also know full well that she never, ever wrote, "Go and live in the real world, Karl!" However, I still see no contradiction in the statements. Even though I BELIEVE it's possible to change a rapists thought processes, I still believe there should be some extremely serious punitive measures for this type of crime. To make my stance absolutely clear on this one, if it were my child I'd tie the guy by his ankles to my trailor hitch and drag him around and around the M25 for a few hours.

You've come out of it with a sense of humour & just a hint of bitterness. I'm just bitter

Good point, AJ. I never thought of that before. So it would seem that all these men in prison blowing other men are either doing it for phone cards or they've been in the closet all their life, perhaps even been married. The Michael Barrymore syndrome.

Hey Hen, *whispers* ...you played a blinder.

"I'm sorry, but I completely disagree about AJ. Her posts yesterday evening are practically exact replicas of the first posts I ever read by her on this forum, and every one since surrounding this issue. " BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL LIFE, not a blinkered ideal of what life is really like. When was the last time you had someone force their hands and mouths where nobody should go but a loved one? Have you ever been abused sexually or emotionally? Unlike you Hen I never got a chance to be educated to an advanced state at Uni. However I defend MY RIGHT to speak through EXPERIENCE not through a blinkered University Degree. Maybe if one person is locked up for abuse, it will save many the experiences of having the sick bastard perpertrate their sick thoughts again. Therefore people like me..........who you abhor, because we have an opinion, would never have had to suffer the humiliating experiences that we DID and SHOULD NEVER had to suffer. I reiterate once again: I can understand many misdeeds.....except for a sexual crime. Because sexual thoughts are governed by pure animal instinct. Therefore a gay person will always be gay. A hetrosexual will alwaays remain hetrosexual. BUT a sexual deviant will always be a SEXUAL DEVIANT. BECAUSE IT IS A THOUGHT PROCESS, which unfortunately to my knowledge can not be cured. PS Karl......thanks mate for your support on this.

Well, I've gone through my phases of thinking other people are insane. Now, as far as I'm concerned, if I don't understand the people behind a situation that seems absurd, I'm not in a position to comment.

"Another Friday Night in Memphis" is excellent work. I read it several months ago. It's well written and certainly deserves a read. Pete, very briefly because I'm tired, I firmly believe Clockwork Orange was 30/40 years ahead of its time. Cognitive behaviour therapy enables us to see the damage our thoughts cause, thus enabling us to take charge of our thought processes instead of our thought processes taking charge of us. I'm talking of something completely. I'm talking of change at a deep subliminal level, where are our buttons are pushed. Cognitive therapy may well fall apart with hard-wired functions such as sexuality, but by "changing your mind and keeping the change" dramatic results can be achieved. This is my believe anyway, and I'll happily explain techniques at a later date if you're still interested and I'm more awake. Consider this though, if ordinary hetrosexual men can turn gay after being incarcerated for a long period of time with other males and with no females in sight, would it be possible to hasten a change in sexual desire by treating the subconscious?

A commendable snippet of nothingness there Jon, why do you post if it's just to say you have nothing to say?

Because I'd like to persuade you (and others) to rethink things that get you het up, rather than just remain het up about them. 5 years for baby rape (I don't know anything else about it,) might seem crap, but think about how the situation arose, what decisions were made on what basis, and whether your alternative ideas, which seem so sensible at first, aren't embraced by more people. I mean, how are we going to get anywhere ever if we spend all our days thinking our minds are thinking in terms of 'common sense' and that everyone who disagrees is automatically wrong?

Try reading William Blake henstoat..."there's intellect in a tear". I'll explain...depending on the 'rational' at the expense of the emotional will make you a very stupid boy, and an obscenely pompous 'man'. Not to worry 'tho eh! 'men' have been getting away with that one for many years

You're not very lucid today Jon, go do your chores and come back when your head is clearer.

Hen I do have respect for individuals, and I sympathise with people's plight. You seem to forget that this child is ruined for life. I realise that many abusers have been abused themselves. But in my opinion, as AJ says, shouldn't that make the person think twice, especially when a baby is involved. If he then proceeded to batter the child to death, would that still be OK? I'm talking as a parent & I don't think I could sit back & watch someone get 5 years for violating my child. Skeeter's right, maybe as a parent I can't look at this whole thing logically but emotionally. But the point is the victim is a baby. A man can take responsibility for his own actions. And as I said before, if I did kill the person, I would deserve to go to prison. On another point, Sarah Payne's parents have split up because of the terrible tragedy they have suffered. Look how many lives have been ruined because of one man's act. How could you ever justify that

I've heard all these explanations about abusers going on to abuse others themselves but I don't think it's a defence or even an excuse; maybe a 'reason' for some individuals. I was never abused (apart from the verbal abuse I get here from time to time and that doesn't count I know), but there's a lot of logic in the argument that an abused person should be more sensitive to the damage caused and so be even less likely to offend themselves. On a personal level I was abandoned by my father at the age of four along with three brothers and a sister (the eldest being twelve and my sister being six months old). The effect of being fatherless damaged me psychologically so badly that I have stayed in a loveless marriage for thirtytwo years rather than inflict the same damage on my two sons. I know it's a different ball-game but the logic behind it is the same. I would have been the last man on earth to abandon my sons for fear of repeating the damage I suffered. I don't believe that it has to be a case of history repeating itself, people do learn from experience. Well some do anyway.

It's a horrendous verdict. As I understand it, this pathetic sentence was given because the guy was "full of remorse and unlikely to offend again". If someone takes pictures of their crime does it indicate someone full of remorse? It sets a dangerous precedent and shows that we are seriously living in the dark ages when it comes to dealing with sex crimes sentencing. As for the child (I pray it won't remember anything of this), its parents, the six year old and 11 year old children also attacked by this beast, how long will their sentences be? That's when life means life.

Yeah, but have a think about the abuser too. What makes someone turn out like that? Hasn't he already received a life sentence of some sort? I can't begin to imagine what goes through the mind of someone who feels compelled to sexually abuse children, but it can't be nice. 5 years in prison *is* absurd, it seems to me, because it won't sort anything out. What if one of the abused who you currently pity goes on to abuse someone else? What would be your opinion of them then?

Whooaa Whooaa Whooaa Trigger, its just to easy for us all to jump to the wrong conclushions here. All we know is that he was found guilty of raping a 13-month-old baby, taking pictures of the act and posting them on the internet, and while admitedly this is tramatic for the child and family, what about the poor man himself? He's also a victim of societys neglect. All of us are responsible for the fact that his needs forced him to carry out acts like this. Didn't he once take pictures of a sleeping naked six-year-old girl and post those on the web? Proof surely that he is actually the victim here. Socity has let him down! Prison isn't going to help him at all. I hope he sues the government when he comes out of prison.