ron's gone

"...this was a time when there were still some top clubs who had *never* fielded a black player." Actually - you can check - but I'm pretty sure it was only my team, Everton, of the "top" (in the loosest sense, at the time) clubs that had never fielded a black player. This ignominious record ended in about 94 with the arrival of Amokachi. There is some dispute about whether we had already played a black player - some obscure mixed-race winger or other from the seventies. Anyway, how it took so long to have a first-eleven black player at the club is anyone's guess...but it certainly took its toll on the hostile blackunfriendly atmosphere at the club. Don't ask me what it was like as a child standing in the Gladys Street end in the eighties. I'm trying to forget.

Cue music... I watched the match on Sunday and my heart stood still, Too blue Ron, Ron, Ron. Too blue Ron, Ron. Nobody told him that his mike was still... On cue Ron, Ron, Ron. On cue Ron, Ron. Yeah! My heart stood still, Yeah! He's caused ill will. And then they sent him home, Sack you Ron, Ron, Ron. Sack you Ron, Ron.

I know what he was thinking blaming Desaille I do ron ron ron, I do ron ron He's lazy but there's no need for your bigotry It's true ron ron ron, it's true ron ron Yeah, when he talked to Clive, yeah, he was going live, His career takes a dive, you're screwed ron ron ron, you're screwed ron ron

Don't be concerned for Ron, I'm sure he'll bounce back in due course. After all: The future's bright - the future's orange. And if *anyone* is orange, Big Ron is.

Well I confess to being a little provocative, but the accusations of racism didn't materialise. I suppose I've become a little predictable, maybe it's time to morph. Actually there is a valid argument that anyone is entitled to believe whatever they wish, and maybe even express their opinions in private to whoever they wish. You can't tell people what to think (well not on ABC anyway). I believe the mistake was more on the part of the person responsible for turning the mike off after the commentary was finished. I don't however endorse Atkinsons views, but then I know bugger all about footbawl. What I DO find curious though is how it's acceptable for coloured people to use 'nigger' for whatever purpose they see fit but as soon as a white man uses it he's a racist. A twat journo in the Mirror tried to explain it today but I never take much notice of twats. If it hadn't been for the fact that all journalists (paper and broadcast), are sitting around most of the time waiting for someone to fuck up so they can get a 'scoop', it would have passed unnoticed.

The bloke in the Mirror (I read that too) was saying that it's NOT okay for black people (don't say "coloured people" Missi...what are you, a deep southern fried slave trader in the 19th cent? "Coloured" is a slave trade word, and more recently a South African apartheid word. And black people are proud to be black, don't avoid the word like it's a shameful thing to say). He was saying, because of the n-word's history, no-one should use it, not even to "reclaim" it ironically. Sounds a fair enough argument to me. The problem was someone DIDN'T turn the mic off. And its "to WHOMever they wish". Tsk tsk. Sloppy.

he can write a book in the future. I wont be buying it

he's arrogant - glad he got shown up

i dont think its got anything to do with arrogance andrea. we are all arrogant in our own ways, some are quite forth coming with there arrogance while others conceal it better. he said something racist which is the lowest form of bullying...nd deserves to go..

If it was a private comment and he thought he was 'off air' it shouldn't have anything to do with his job. If he's good at his job that's enough. We all harbour strong feelings about something or other and we have a right to. Even if others disagree.

s.d - I meant he was arrogant in his attitude; felt he would be nasty, whether racist or not, about the other players, too, or anyone who ticked him off at any moment - he would think up some vicious insult, or some cheap shot, to sling. (Agree about the racism! Just felt that only a self-promoting, arrogant person could think that way, as if other people are there to be sneered at by the boers, let alone use that language at any time)

I know you're only trying to play Dev's Ad, Missi... Not to censure him, especially when he's working in an industry that has a huge and problematic history of racism and violence, would have implied tolerance to such views and language. If he were a fishmonger and a customer overheard him say something like that, of course it wouldn't have affected his job, but unless you're advocating a return to the bad old days of racist chants, banana chucking and generally thuggery, then a stand has to be seen to be made against such attitudes. I daresay he's a perfectly nice guy. For me, it's the action that's being condemned, not the chap.

I only wish that Clive Tyldsley had agreed with him, so that he could be sacked too - really is the worst commentator around. Makes me yearn for the days of Brian Moore (and I loathed him) "Oh, andtheGermans areonthe ATTT-ack" Of course his remarks have nothing to do with his ability to do the job, but I think he was quite right to resign. I think if he'd called Desailly a 'lazy French bastard' he would probably have had to apologise, but would have kept his job; but there's no context in which a white person can ever use the 'N word' and it be acceptable. And I understand he does have a bit of 'form'. Missi's point, which I agree with Tim he is probably being devil's advocate, is the old 'thought police / political correctness gone mad' gambit. Should what a person says or thinks cause them to lose their job even if they are fastidious about not allowing their views to affect their ability to do the job? I think you always have to look at this on a case by case basis. There are of course examples which are ludicrous - the apocryphal banning of Baa Baa Black Sheep from Lambeth libraries, the accusation that offering someone black coffee is racist. But I think in general, the country is a better place for words like nig-nog, coon, puff, paki having fallen out of general use. Sure, there are always going to be pockets of people who still use them; but I'm old enough to remember seventies sit-coms where they were used to get a laugh and I'm damn sure that sort of attitude made life a lot worse for non white children at schools at the time. For me, the fact that Ron's remarks appalled a lot of people is a good thing. In a Private Eye elegy style :- So goodbye, Big Ron You made an error and resigned we will miss your 'eyebrows' and 'hollywood pass'

What's wrong with everyone this week? Is it because it's St. George's day? Now we've got the director of the daily express (should expect no more) goose-stepping around the boardroom, making comments about Nazis and making the other members of the board sing Deutscheland Uber Alles.

have you any views on the matter robert ?

As my mate pointed out last night at the pub quiz, this is a man who used to go to "kick racism out of football" meetings, and has banged on about his influence regarding bringing more black players into the game. So it's disappointing to find he uses terms like this casually, but I doubt he's an out and out racist. That's a person who says, "The trouble with these n*ggers is..." or "why does there have to be so many n*ggers in this country, it's packed enough as it is...?" People who cast blanket aspersions on the race. Like my uncle. And most people's gran. Ron probably realised that his old-britain throw-away insults would make a lot us feel uncomfortable, and that "w*nker" would have been a much more acceptable alternative - he just didn't care...till he was accidentally shopped by world TV! On balance, it's right that he's gone. It's not acceptable; he knew the consequences of the world hearing him talk that way. He's held his hands up. Story over.

s.d - thanks for the compliment! but I'm not Andrea nor Andre nor anyone by a similar name, though I see that Andorra looks like it should be the name of someone adored or who opens doors and says' and' 'or' 'a' etc haha *rushes off to find squashed tomatoes* but it's just a little country nobody knows much about [%sig%]

*crikey*

It reminds me of Angora - nice for cosy jumpers and silky coats!

ooooh thanks Emma. Bootee style angora slippers!!! As for Ron, I'm surprised that someone ignorant enough to make such a comment had enough sense to jump before being pushed. [%sig%]

It's not ignorant in the sense that, he didn't know it was wrong. Of course he did - that's why he's walked - nor really was he ignorant of the sensibilities of others who may find it offensive: he didn't really care about using such a word in front of Tyldsley, who may well be a wishy washy precious liberal type (a - one presumes - middle-class journo)...but he did care about using it on air, because that spelt the end of his job. I'd say he's guilty of a kind of arrogance, and has rightly come a cropper. But I don't buy that he's a "proper" racist. I don't use racist terms, but I'm probably guilty of using offensive terms about homosexuals in private. I'm sure I'm not homophobic, but the language I use sometimes might indicate that I'm not as tolerant as I'd like to be. Let's be honest here - we could all think of conversations we've had that - if aired worldwide inadvertently - would makes us fear to show our faces in public again. It's the Kilroy-Silks we have to worry about: those scary twats who are unashamed, and actually believe that there overt bigotry is something worth sharing with the world. Ron's done the right thing. Now leave him be, I say.

there=their obviously

few good points zen, sounds about right really........

"andorra" have you any creative writing on the site ?

Dunno, but she's got a goaty beard so she probably writes 'fin de ciecle' type stuff. *allowed that joke on account of getting own back re-beard - ha*

Thanks for asking, s.d! But hah! I can't even READ the writing on the site - most of it! There is very heavy censorship here - I'm told in important accouncements that the writing is for over registered over15s only, and I have to register and provide proof of age. Of course, I am registered. Registered in order to submit. Once tried to register again *Idea! Perhaps that would work?* and they said 'you are already registered'. So gave up and read forums. Found that I can post on ABC forums; don't know how that works, since they don't recognise my registration, but hi ho. I do still try to read things that are mentioned on the ABC writing discussion forum but most of it comes up 'for over 15, show your registration driver's licence palm thumb digital passport, etc.'.. (slight exaggeration, humble apol, etc). At other times, I can't figure out how to find it, the piece of writing, anyway. Sent several letters to ABC as requested on front page, for anyone unable to access, but eternally no reply. However - I know there is a huge membership on the site and that must present technical difficulties, so decided to shut up and put up with it instead of complaining. (Also wanted to complain about so many pieces being out of sight as ostensibly needing to be censored! and for not having a comment area under each piece of writing! and for not having everything in alphabetical order! but *what good would that do?* Just be carping, and everyone seems happy with it and it's a great site so *flops onto to sofa, whisks crumbs from pretentious jacket* (Or could it be *me* *myself* *moi* they are censoring ... ?... Maybe I am too small at this distance? *climbs steps to terrace* or too Italian *brushes Rosemary out of hair* or too non-Italian *whisks Welsh Rarebit and maple syrup behind back* or too three tenors *quits miming, switches off CD* or just too ignorant about old movies *switches on video and mimes to Paul Robson's booming bass: 'Lets aaaalll gooo down the Miii...' etc... *falls off roof into pretentious carp pond* and there you have it ..... sigh, groan, moan ....)

well i agree with a lot of the comments here by rokkit and budd and andrew. my feeling is that it was more foolishness than racism. i understand that the comment itself was prefaced by something like "some people would call him a...", which may not make it any more palatable but does i think provide some small mitigation. i think for a long time he has been over-confident, feeling able to to make politically incorrect comments and avoid allegations of racism because of his record of nurturing black players. this was defintely the case in the early nineties, when he would refer to his defenders at villa as "our black four". but this was a time when there were still some top clubs who had *never* fielded a black player. really i just feel sorry for him that he's got to live with it. what i find quite poetic is that his career should end because of using a wrong word, when his grasp of language has has always been tenuous at best *eyebrows to andrew*

Hey Emma - was I talking about you being the bearded lady? Sorry! Just noticed a reference to a 'bearded lady' and that reminded me of ... etc. Didn't think of you for a single second!!! Hey - and what makes you make me a lil gal, Miz Emma-May - why now that's right naughty of you! You can find me on UKA very easily - just look me up on google if ye be curious to see how awful (yes, I am afraid it's all true, every word...) me writing is *sobs into Emma's lace hanky* *gives it back* 'you are all so kind I can't - ' ... *chokes, rushes sobbing into prittish little wilderness' ... gets hungry, wonders when supper will be served* Look up 'UKA Michel' (I use my name over there), on google and something will probably come up so you can see I exist *draws self to full height, grabs biscuit places it between teeth to show strength* (but I don't submit much - just fun pieces sometimes - well, silly pieces, actually)

Andorra, can you twitch your nose and disappear like Andorra could on "Bewitched"?

Yes. (Sabrina was made up)