BUSH OUT!!!! BUSH OUT!!!! BUSH OUT!!!! BUSH OUT!!!! BUSH OUT!!!! BUSH OUT!!!!

I've been watching the news and the whole thing is so, I don't know, tiring and predictable. You just knew Bush would win. Kerry's campaign was unbelievably lame, much lie his concession speech. The Democrats didn't have the intelligence to appeal to reason and use plain facts to convince voters rationally, and neither did that party have the imagination and cunning to appeal to the instinct and heart of voters. You have to respect the Republicans really. Massive national debt for Americans. Healthcare eroded. Industry down the pan. Unemployemnt impressively high. Yar-de yar-da....blah...blah...But the finance sector is doing fine, and the price of oil is at a nice all time high. Added to this, the party gets another four years with majority representation in the House and Senate. Americans have got what they deserve, even if it was only just over half that voted Republican. I doubt Kerry would have been significantly better for Americans, or in terms of global politics, but I suspect he would have been a lot less sure of himself, and therefore not as dangerous as Bush, who has succeeded in making a virtue - a vote winning one at that - of his own impassioned ignorance.

Oh, Liana... gay people don't count.... ;)

Do you think a gay black man in Texas would ever get a fair trial?

I don't think a gay black man in Texas would LIVE long enough to get a fair trial.

Luckily Bush will be restrained by Congress - particularly the House of Representatives where the enlarged Republican group is led by Tom DeLay, who famously blamed the Columbine massacre on the fact that the kids responsible were taught the theory of evolution.

Of course not... you could remove either gay or black from that question, and it would still be no.

America is in trouble. Even the most naivest amongst us must be able to work that one out. Why are americans so patriotic when there present goverment drops bombs on innocent chilren and women in the name of oil. It is better if the us stopped pissing so many european nations of with this fake war. People are sick to the teeth of american patriots shouting there mouths. SORT YOUR OWN PROBLEMS OUT BEFORE YOU MARCH AROUND THE WORLD.

there are five states in the US that will not allow the word evolution to be used in science lessons... adam and eve... awww. Bless.

Lemme guess.... Tennessee Georgia Alabama Mississippi Louisiana and Tennessee Am I close?

i find that a bit scary...

Bush is going to die, nobody can give off that amount of bad karma without reaping it's rewards. Just hope it happens quickly and that whoever takes his place isn't a half-baked out of touch idiot like he is. In fact I hope the whole capitilist western selfish exploitation crap topples and there is a new world order, cause I'm getting fucked off with this one.

SORT YOUR OWN PROBLEMS OUT BEFORE YOU MARCH AROUND THE WORLD. Exactly what people are trying to say to you for your own good STEPHEN DALY. You need to get a good report from whoever in the criminal justice system is working with you at the moment. What they want to see are things like you managing your behaviour and living in a way which does not suggest you are a threat to others. Small, small steps - this is the key. Work, accomodation etc. The normal banal and boring efforts which is a part of everyday life. Of course it is unfair and of course it is a game. It's not disimilar to a laboratory rat running down one route where it will be given an electric shock and another route where it will get some cheese. The point is though STEPHEN DALY that if you do not put your energies into showing - to the satisfaction of the state - that you can live a normalish life then they will decide your route for you. There is insufficient funding and insufficient will to give you the level of support which you yourself wish. If you do not want to return to prison then you must convince people in the criminal justice system that they should give you the benefit of the doubt. You must though provide evidence which they consider pertinent. Not evidence which STEPHEN DALY considers pertinent. You have been told this a dozen different ways before and always chosen routes which are self destructive. You do, of course, have the right to do this. But those who report to court have the right to say that they consider that you are not showing evidence that you wish to change your behaviour. Then you will go to prison which will be ugly, uneccessary and a waste of your talents STEPHEN DALY.

Comment by an American (resident in the UK) on today's news: "If everybody in the US got out of the country and saw the world and what effect America has on it, as a country we would have voted for a different result". Many non-US people spend their lives relieved that the percentage of Americans with passports remains firmly in single figures. At times like this they might have some regrets. Four more beers!

GOD.... It's the twilight zone. Watch that sign post up ahead. Next stop...

So, was I right? About the states?

I should think you probably are, yes... the report i read it in just noted that there were five that went this evangelical (read fundamental) route. Do they say babies come from storks too I wonder?

thats the truth of it all stephen. While these people are creating war around the world and increasing our security deficit this in turn means vulnerable people are starting to suffer in European counties and the UK because of these people. Our media is full of this war and it is deflecting our people from our internal problems, it is wrong. We are people to we want the weak and vulnerable in our country taken care of. We dont want our taxes and media caught up in this. Me i am nothing. just now i am a weak man fighting to regain my life. Instead of all this war we should be looking close to us and recognise the wars our brothers and sisters are fighting and standing alongside them if there war is moral and its aims to help them intergrate in to our world. I am aperson radio. You put me down with your post, a sick man. This helps us have insight in to the spirit of your country. I doubt it. What do you doubt. A lot of my eratic comments have ben because of illness. *blushes* was part of the illness it wasnt designed to wind up mississippi i said that to try and save face. But i will beat the illness and the war will stop. Words mean everything to ahuman. My illness nearly cost m my life Do you understand that *i doubt it*. Your words are careless and hurtfull but i forgive you as you are not living my life. My words at times have been careless and hurtful bu twhen thta happens i try and rcognise nd seek to apologise and put things right, that has been an illness, an illness that nearly took my life. I borrowed 5 pound whihc i cant afford to reply to your post because it hurt me. I am man enough to admit that i do hurt when people put me down so personally, i cant help that. Im sorry radio if any of this is offensive to you. we seethe american flag every day and the soldiers and the bombs. WE dont want it, it is hurting us too. whycant your contry talk words of peace and exlore peaceful means why not ayway ive typed this froma phone box. I go through my life always looking from the underdog. I cant stand people who hurt the weak and the sick, it turns my stomuch to think i m part of the same species. There are plenty of decent people in your country. people who speak words of peace i say a prayer for them tonight, not to religion but to a god who does not know war. Peace be with you..

Actually, in 1968, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that prohibiting the teaching of evolution in tax-supported schools was unconstitutional. So, it's not against the law, it's just not practiced. The Scopes Monkey trial in 1925 in Tennessee changed the face of this but there are some yahoo's that keep wanting things to be lak-thay-were.... We're talking Bible Belt here. Thank'ya Jesus!

Blimey, stephy, all that simply to answer radio's "I doubt it"? It will cost you at least a tenner when you respond to Siobhan then. or, you might decide not to bother. That's what someone trying to regain their life would do. But I doubt you will. You're probably furiously typing away as I post. Hox, Arnie would make a superb prez ... he'd tool up, hasta some pasta, and go sort out the world's problems himself without having to resort to proxy troops. Sadly, American law prevents him from ever standing. I'll be back.

Steph is okay, he just gets a little wound up and then comes back. It's hard, believe me, I know...It's hard sometimes to keep a faith in humanity when you feel that everything around you is turning to shit.

I find it interesting that the five states you list are exactly the five I visited last week, denver. It's made me wonder exactly what it is about the Deep South that keeps pulling me back. Perhaps it's the medieval mindset, though I actually think it's the music.

Well, from my point of view, and being from there. It has some really interesting people and culture. Not everyone is a religious zealot! There are some quite acceptable and admirable people living there and from there. A more loyal and friendly group, you'd be hard pressed to find. It's the politics I don't like. The politics and the engrained bigotry. I know how it is though, I can move about with little difficulty, but when you get below the surface and live in it, you either adapt or you move. I moved. I don't have a religious belief and the culture down there is very religious. Most cultures around the world have some type of religion, why people want to single out the American Bible Belt as being the dumbest in type eludes me, but hey...I do it too, mostly self deprecating I suspect. Can't get too big for my pants...

>I find it interesting that the five states you list are exactly the five I visited last week, denver. It's made me wonder exactly what it is about the Deep South that keeps pulling me back.< Inbreeding?

A friend at work today helped to put the election result into perspective for me. The friend - who doesn't vote for any party "because they're all the same anyway" - reasoned thus: "Look at it this way. What difference does it make to you or I in Derby who is president of the USA?" I thought for a few moments and realised that he's right. "None," I replied, "But what about the bigger picture......?" But on reflection, he's right. Maybe I would worry less if I followed his logic. He's right. Bush or Kerry. Makes no odds to me at all really. Why worry about the Iraqis and whatnot? I feel excited that following this new philosphy could potentially transform my wellbeing for the better! In future I shall vote Tory and only focus on worrying about myself for a change.

*bulshes*

Jeff, I had that train of thought too. It works pretty well. Then I realized that just maybe, I can help make a difference towards something I think may be better. If I don't get my way, then fuck-it. Can't do the impossible, I'm only one person. It's a question of how we accept reality I suppose. *blushes*

Radio.. he's being ironic... it's precisely that mindset that frightens us.

If I was drawn to inbreeding, Colin, I would spend my holidays in the fens.

Important to be realistic, I think. While I thought intellectually that Bush might have had a harder time getting re-elected, the truth is that people tend to vote according to their baser instincts - that's why despite all the bitching about Maggie in the Eighties she kept getting in (Brits will generally vote for low taxes and only ditched the Tories because they fucked up our interest rates so badly, not because they were sleazy creeps). At the moment, and justifiably, a lot of Americans are fearful of terrorism. They want the main guy to be someone who is tough. I listened to all three debates and Kerry shaded one of them. Other than that, I think George Bush did pretty well. Same last time around - everyone said that Al Gore would show up how dumb George was and wipe the floor with him - didn't happen. I don't think George is anywhere near as dumb as people make out, and in my opinion he's a bloody good communicator. The difference is, he isn't trying to communicate to people like me - we'd vote Democrat anyway. He's trying to appeal to those people who are uncertain. He connects with the voters much better than any US politician in recent memory. If you happen to be one of the 49% who can't stand him, well, you weren't gonna vote for him anyway. He's interested in the 51% who will. As for Hilary Clinton - well, in the Southern states that she'd need to win, white males voted 3-1 in favour of Bush against Kerry. I think she'd be even less popular. She'd take California and New York perhaps chunks of New England too, but the battleground now is the middle of America, and I don't see her standing a chance. If you take Texas and Florida, you can write off losing California and NY and take your chances in Middle America. Bush, and his team, are a lot smarter than folks give them credit for. I don't agree with his politics, but I actually rather like and respect the guy. And I actually think it was the right outcome - Kerry simply never did enough, In boxing parlance, Bush was the champ who spent three rounds on the ropes but Kerry never put him away. Why didn't he manage to connect with the Middle Americans who have found themselves worse off under Bush?

*If I was drawn to inbreeding, Colin, I would spend my holidays in the fens* Hay, I liver in the fens!! *Feels strangely drawn to missi*

The problem is partly the political system, it's all corrupt; partly the media too, but more than anything the problem lies with the people : we're all a bunch of selfish fuckers, who couldn't care less about the environment, we disgrace the beauty of the land with grey gloom and pollution. The vast majority of us couldn't care less about what our businesses and governments are doing to exploit the rest of the world; as long as we get our low taxes and our modern day comforts, we can be easily swayed, cause really we only care about ourselves at the end of the day. The problem is most people can't see that far ahead, can't see how we're all on the verge of a collapse, of creating a sickly polluted earth; just take a look at how the system is being eaten within, how people grow afraid to just leave there doors in an inner city. Noone votes for anybody decent, because they couldn't care less. So none of the other parties get a chance - a lot of the people in power are dirty liars. If you look anywhere in the world we have designed a political system where only the most decietful, greedy, corruptible figures can get into power. What's that tell you about the system? Only the dishonest can survive it! And it's all our fault cause we don't do anything about it. I would love to see someone with a pure heart get in, in truth if anybody like that did ever get into power, they wouldn't last long, for we are unworthy to have someone like that lead us. We are the problem - it's our fault. The problem with our world is inside each one of us. Until we all look at ourselves with honesty, try to change who we are for the better, the world will never change. All the anger, all the division, wars, jealousy, all the hatred comes from inside our own selfish egotistical heads.

Come on Richard, you can't get agreement between 3 people so there's no chance of getting 6.4billion to agree. The problem as I see it is that most 'civilised' people use their personal criteria for a 'good' world and compare everything to it. It becomes easier to live with if one assumes that all humans are pretty basic, then those that aren't will put a smile on your face. There's a kind of security in the 'lemming politics' of Britain at the moment, people read things in the papers etc and mostly go along with the editorials, oblivious to the fact that there are always other points of view. Most people are too bloody lazy to think for themselves, though some don't possess the machinery in the first place. Bush isn't necessarily the leader I would pick for the USA (change the stupid law and bring back Bill) but I am in no doubt that Kerry would be no better. (those that say ANYBODY is better than Bush are not to be taken serously) This isn't a defence of Bush, as I say I don't really care for the guy, neither do I really care for Blair but I certainly wouldn't vote for Howard just get rid of him. (As it happens I'd sooner stick my dick in a food blender than vote tory anyway)

Agree with you here, George. Those that felt that the Anyone-but-Bush factor would triumph were demonstrably wrong. A significant chunk of the floating voters had a look at both men and thought, we're in tough times, we want someone who we know will do X, not someone who is unpredictable. I've a fair idea how Bush might react to certain situations, I've no idea about Kerry and I think in the end, that's what did for him. In trying to appeal to the left and be opposed to the war in Iraq, he scared off the voters he needed who might not have liked the war but realised that you've got to see it through now. To (mis)quote The Godfather - "We need a war-time consiglierie, and you're a peace-time consiglierie." And as much as I loathe and detest Blair, Howard isn't the answer. So therefore, if I was compelled to vote, I'd have to vote Labour. That I think, is why the left in this country are so full of resentment at the moment. We don't want what's on the menu, but there's no other restaurant in town. I find myself more and more detached from politics other than as an interesting study. The British left-wing Press today are wildly over-reacting as if it is a huge tragedy (sort of the flipside of Mandela being released or the Berlin War tumbling). It's not that big a deal. If someone said to me, you can have Bush deposed or Blair resign and Brown take over, I wouldn't hesitate (apart from asking if I could ALSO have Wenger resign from Arsenal and Thierry Henry sign for Man Utd on a free).

Out in the quiet of my study, working hard, jumping back and forth between two monitors. One of which is this forum.

i thought this was going to be a porno thread. Jeffy you're mad and a Derby supporter.....i feel sorry for both of you.

I just got back from Voting.

skiving from doing homework by doing housework skiving from doing housework by surfing It's all good. Start a new job tomorrow

I do hope you voted for my husband RD. By the way George says hi.

Tell George he can go bite a carrot.

Dammit, dammit! I thought someone had the inside scoop on election results and my prayers had been answered. ):

"I've no idea about Kerry and I think in the end, that's what did for him. In trying to appeal to the left and be opposed to the war in Iraq, he scared off the voters he needed who might not have liked the war but realised that you've got to see it through now." I think he got it wrong on Iraq but not for quite the same reason. The problem with Iraq becoming so central was that, over the course of the campaign, Kerry seemed to hold just about every conceivable position on Iraq at one point or another. If I'd been him I would've said as little as possible about the war - where his position was far less coherent (although possibly more sensible) than Bush's - and talked about the economy and other issues where voters were more likely to both understand what he was saying and agree with him. The only two real positions on Iraq that voters were likely to understand were: - do the same as Bush or bring the troops home. A position somewhere in the middle may be broadly the right thing to do but it's not a vote winner. Despite Michael Moore's best efforts, I think 'bring the troops home' would have given Bush a landslide. The problem was that Kerry put the main focus, or a lot of the focus, of his campaign on an area where he didn't have a clear policy and his opponent did.

Lissenin to BUSH speak on TV... what else... he's trying to sound humble --

Well, I do work for the largest newspaper in the world. Something tells me that I'll get quicker info on the internet though.

Whats the Internet?

It's when the volleyball player falls when trying to do a spike. They're inner-net.

You bastard Matt, thought you'd spied a bottomless model and was gonna share pics with us!

*trying to do a spike* No wonder they're inner-net! There should be compulsory drug testing..

just seen some exit polls saying it's a Kerry landslide. Oh dear, George will be off to the pub to drown his sorrows. I'm hiding the coke.

Your comments differ from the mail you sent me siobhan. I will post that tomorrow on this post. It differs a lot. You strike me now as a spirit who is willing to hurt and then kid on you are something else.

Just seen this on MSN, Poll gives Bush slim lead on Kerry By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush has edged into a one-point national lead on Democratic Senator John Kerry, with the White House rivals deadlocked in the key state of Florida on the eve of the presidential election, according to Reuters/Zogby polls.