UK vs USA

Don't we all?

radio: a GREAT JOB at what? Liana: Scaring the rest of the world shitless. yeah what she said LOL A lot of people think he is doing a great job at keeping America secure that the war on Iraq(no matter HOW MANY times the objective changed) was the best thing for THEIR country I even heard people say they voted him just because he disagree with stem cell research but hate his other policies..WTH????

AG, Okay, my turn...I'll keep it short. Most of what you said is way off the mark. 1. Form of government and means of transfer of power. The US has a constitutional form of government and a pre-determined means of orderly transfer of power. Every 4 years there's an election, and for every public office in the land. Rome, succession was pretty much determined by what the last ruler wished or what his opponents could arrange in the way of doing him in. 2. Public involvment in official policy. See #1 above. Freedom of the press. Politicians play to the public and the press. We're the exact opposite end of the spectrum here than the Romans. 3. Ability to maintain a viable defense mechanism. The military isn't falling apart. Common press misconception. The equipment and technology training and quality of soldier in use today is far superior than what I was using 25 years ago, which was in a leagure of its own then. You don't know squat about the military situation. The US has an established military presence in over 65 countries around the world. Short of England and France, nobody else in the world comes close to the level of technology being used by the US Military. One nuclear balistic missle submarine (we have many) can lay waste to the entire world. Nobody's about to invade the US. Rome was invaded and concured because they couldn't afford an army and they continued using tactics and armaments that were in use for hundreds of years. I can't believe you actually think the US Military is weak. We're fighting the war in Iraq with 2 divisions. Think about that.....2 divisions. Hitler attacked Holland with 136 divisions... We're fighing in Iraq with our pinky finger. No country in the world has the ability to control the high seas as the US Navy. The largest, most powerful and advanced floating force on the planet. About 300 combat ships and between 3-5 thousand operational aircraft, and maybe a half million sailors amongst 6 fleets, in the Atlantic and Pacific. The great Royal Navy is about half the size of the US Navy and doesn't possess the global deployment capability that the US does. The Russian Navy and it's leftovers from the Soviet Union have the closest in numbers, but the technology, training and general viability of the fleet is such that about 2/3's of the Russian fleet is useless. 4. Use of technology to improve the standard of life and infrastructure. The Romans invented a few really neat things then stopped. Everything was accomplished with raw manpower. Just throw slaves into it, we can do it. No comparison here... The US builds more heavy equipment than any other country on the planet. We have the most developed and maintained highway and railroad structure of any country in the world. We are the center of the worlds technology infrastructure. 5. The influx and impact of religion on the masses. Rome fell in part due to influx of Christianity and organized religion. There was no loyalty to Rome. They got too big, and people didn't give a hoot about 'the empire'. 6. The Empire...what Empire...The US isn't an Empire...and isn't expanding its territorial goals. Rome attacked and acquired new territory, exacting tribute to support the infrastructure. They needed the plunder from other lands to support their empire. The US does premptive warfare in the guise of self defense. After which we pump billions of dollars into the economy of the country we previously had conflict with. The US Was instrumental in financing the rebuilding of Europe after WWII, we'll pay a big price for Afghanastin and Iraq....and on and on.....No comparison here. Rome just turned people into slaves and stole their chickens. AG, you're watching too much television...Elephants aren't Locomotives

He's doing a great job of telling you what a great job he's doing. Stopping Stem cell research....jeeze-louise....Like that's of monumental importance. I've just come up with a new story idea from all of this. At least he's good for something. FICTION!

It's not quite a unique relationship, Anastasia - we've got a similar relationship with Australia (and don't we all know it, eh??) Friends who have emigrated from the UK to USA now say they're shocked how negative and cynical Brits are; I'm shocked at how naive and unworldly many Americans are. Every American I've ever met in the UK, and the vast majority that my tourist friends and family have met in the USA, have been disarmingly open, friendly and welcoming - but they seem completely unable to see through crooks like Bush as long as there's enough words like "God" and "freedom" and "patriotism" thrown in (jumps off high horse to find another thread...)

Mile High, And you, my deah, are missing the point entirely! Elephants aren't locomotives, doy. But elephants were in those times what locomotives are today. You're not seeing the forest for the trees, mate. As I said, the US is a -modern- mirror; of course things have changed! America does turn people into slaves via the sweatshops in Bangladesh and Turkey so's you and I can wear our hot new Gap t-shirts with cap sleeves and funky 70s deco on 'em. Just ask Jasper. And you are also being a little simplistic about the Roman Empire! When Claudius landed in Britain in c. 43 C.E. he kicked the shit out of the local tribespeople, then mostly 'pacified' them by persuading the chieftains to emulate the 'dez-rez' Roman lifestyle, creating an entirely new type of currency-based economy for Britain, one that thrived and prospered immensely under Roman rule with enormous trade links to the Continent. When the Romans left, the so-called Dark Ages began. They didn't just go in and steal their chickens. And *pshaw* the US isn't expanding it's territorial goals. This so-called 'nationbuilding', putting democracies into rather lucrative or strategically placed countries, isn't expanding territorial goals? Putting a democracy next to Iran, part of the 'Axis of Evil'? Trying to get a democracy in Afghanistan, on the OTHER side of Iran? Look at your map. There's a REASON we pay more attention to the dictatorships in the Middle East than we do in Africa. Selflessness and a hope for a better world, it ain't. I frankly can't see how you can't see the similarities. And I don't even OWN a frickin' television, let alone watch too much. I'm too busy arguing with you lot to watch the shite on the gogglebox.

O-tay....nuff said. We'll have to agree to disagree....

Great stuff Maid Marion :o)

Maid Marion was fiction...as is her thinking.

Actually, there is evidence for a Maid Marion having existed. She was a nun or something... ;-)

*lands on Radio who was about to help him down* Half of U.S. can see through Bush there mate.

"America does turn people into slaves via the sweatshops in Bangladesh and Turkey so's you and I can wear our hot new Gap t-shirts with cap sleeves and funky 70s deco on 'em. " This is just so out of touch with reality, it can only be uttered by someone who has never travelled to those lands... and who has little inclination for any sort of independent thought.

Yeah, but you just needed another one or two per cent ...

Yes, Gerry is right, MM you're talking crap, not necessarily about MM but certainly about her comparing Rome to Washington.

I dont vote and its not because I am standing up for something, its because Im lazy and dont pretend to have a clue what the real powers that be are really doing out there in the world. Supposedly we aided Saddam's rise to office, knowing full well that he might be dangerous to his own people...Thats still taking things for granted that we learn in the press and i just dont trust the press, especially American. What I liked about England...and i may break a few heads here..but it seems like in the UK the presumption is that the consumer isnt brainless necessarily. Sure they suffer from too many knee jerk and near socialist laws, but they dont seem so lawsuit hungry. I think theres a point to which, under pressure, Americans tend to stand behind the presumption that the common man has certain rights and no responsibilities because the public is supposed to be stupid. In England, under pressure, a lot of people seem to wing it and pretend to know what they are doing...but at least they have a sense of humor about it. British pride seems to be the stuff of legends. I mean, is there any other nation that the British actually admire as much as themselves???? oh yes, has to be the French ;) Also, when I came back to the States I noticed how even though Americans are very friendly we all tend to walk around like we are suffering so everyday but its ok, we can get therapy for that. Americans seem to be obsessed with pop psychology and counseling. And one really surprising thing...Brit men seem to be real men after all, and not all gay!!!!!!

Please transpose a 'your' for a 'her', before some stupid twat gets on the case.

Let's have you reasons for saying that her comparison is crap, George.

We have a stupid old saying Neil. Close only counts in horseshoes and grenades.

I thought we'd agreed to ignore each other. I've told you before, i have NO wish to talk to you. What part of that don't you understand. Don't tell me, ALL of it.

Oooh, the vipers are out. Ssssssss! Never make assumptions about where people have been and what they've seen... There is plenty of evidence for sweatshops still existing in these countries (in fact, I knew a Turkish man in Paris who operated one; he gave me a tour); an anthropologist recently did a documentary on Bangladeshi sweatshops operated with the auspices of Target, our favourite upmarket Wal-Mart. Unfortunately I've forgotten the title, but I'll be happy to call up my anthro professors if you'd like to watch it. And anyone who can't see the parallels (and I'm not talking about frat-boy toga parties, either) between Rome and the United States must be in denial. As I said, history progresses in a spiral, and the loop we're on now is on the same side of the helix as Rome was, 1850 years ago. I'm just sorry you can't see it, like the elephant in the living room. Or the locomotive. So *kissing sounds* kiss my lily-white quiver. Toodle pip!

Oh well then, between you, mykle and the genius in Oz, you have everything tied up then. Why you assume anyone would want to 'lower' themselves to kiss your quiver is beyond me.

what about china? I think that this will be the next superpower. Britain and the USA have had their time , and messed up ; the USA is slowly eating itself , cause that's what pop does. Nations rise and fall. Now China is rising strong , and I predict that she will become a major superpower within the next fifty years. the scary thing is , the chinese are trying to be western , which is a shame, because they have such a beautiful land, which is slowly being eaten by the grey monster of the roads and city ; because they think that this is the only way to progress and be a part of the world ; as do many other poor nations who are copyng the west; they see our way of life as being the only way to rise above poverty and to get power. Mass consumerism eating itself. Is a scary thought, we could have done so much better when we had our time, shown a better way to be, given a better example to the rest of the world when we had the power. Did you know , that 40% of the worlds concrete has been used by China in the past year. That's a hell of a lot of people man...

ummm yes a lot of places are copying western culture but a lot of other places abhor it, consider it evil and demonic and such like... What I find interesting is that in a lot of these places they get the most violent of our movies and media, the silliest of our reality tv shows, etc...so are they really imiitating or despising us? In the information age, specialization seems to be the name of the game, controlled by huge conglomerates...none of the one of the ranges represent the whole.

Seems to me that the usual position for kissing quivers is to lower oneself, hold oneself level with, or, perhaps, if one wanted to raise said quiver, use pillows. There are many different permutations. I'm sure I don't have everything tied up, dear, but on this subject I am most sure. A healthy scepticism renders the best information upon enquiry.

Well my 'dear' it's a pity that everyone else isn't as right as you are isn't it? Further more whichever position you choose to proffer your quiver for kissing is immaterial to me, and I suspect, to most others too.

I'm for Spain. I think Spain should rise to be the next preeminent world super-power. Maybe Portugal. I have to think about this. I'll be back.

I should have known better, George, you don't even know what reason is :)

AG, I really enjoy our conversations, but your 'sweatshop' argument holds no water. It's a popular sensationalist anthem of the leftist-green movement, and is based on nothing but rhetoric and emotion. As usual, reality plays no part in perception. This is socialist & hollywood actor bull-shit, the idea that everybody has to make the same wage around the world and anybody making tennis sneakers in bangladesh is nothing more than a slave laborer... Ask some guy in China if he'd rather be making t-shirts for American and British markets at 2 cents a pop or hoeing dirt for nothing, which he'd prefer. It's a job, it provides income where no other form of income exists. On another note, I personally think this stuff is crap and don't buy it anyway. I buy "American Made", which of course if everyone here felt the same, will eventually put these poor folks back in the field busting dirt with sticks or wading through ox shit hawling hay.

I mean, is there any other nation that the British actually admire as much as themselves???? oh yes, has to be the French ;) Urm, generally the British don't admire the French.

Maybe not Denver, you see most of Europe also buys the stuff from India and China. That apart there is far more reason in your argument than in MM's. Mykle, I can reason with whomsoever I wish. You're on the blacklist along with the other twerps. Think yourself lucky I even bother to answer you, the other w.anker I ignore completely. btw, geddit? wink wink

Ask some guy in china whether he'd rather be rewarded fairly for his efforts. Um, I'll take the quiver if you proffer

So you're not denying sweat-shops then Dever - merely rationalising them.

I deny the term 'sweat-shop' as a reality. I substitue the term 'job' as a reality and then proceed. It's my right as an opinionated capitalist and free man of the American (soon to be Roman) Empire. Next, I'll have you kissing my quiver at 2 cents a pop.

free man my BUNG!

Denver, Neil has this tunnel vision hatred of America. Don't judge us all by his views on the US. I have met many articulate, intelligent Americans that are embarrassed by Bush. I've also met many who support him. I have also met many Brits that have the same opposing views of Blair. Just because a persons politics are opposed to ours doesn't make them either wrong or nuts. It's just coincidence that Bush is a bit of both. In the grand scheme of things, the southern hemisphere is inconsequential, as are most of the people that live there.

Surely YOURS would be arrows, Denver? TWO cents a pop! Christ, you're a greedy bastard!

"Urm, generally the British don't admire the French." Well, I think that's debatable. The tabloids and "patriotic" Brits that read them are creaming their knickers slagging the French - and the Germans - off left, right and centre, whereever they can make out an opportunity to do so. One could argue that so much attention, effort and bile is actually rooted in some kind of admiration (otherwise, where is this obsession coming from? Even more so, since the French and particularly the Germans genuinely like the Brits and are blissfully unaware that they might not be liked back the same way). Or is it just an inferiority complex? [%sig%]

One could argue that yes. One could also argue that the slagging is rooted in historical dislike though. I can't see any point in it myself... I take as I find.

Well Max, you'd be too if you'd put that hammer down. I'm off to my sweat-shop to make the Diary of the American Dream. I'll be stopping off and McDonalds for a muffin and coffee...I'm driving my big pink cadillac convertable on the roads paved with gold, wearing my snake-skin shoes a pink crustacean. I'll be lighting my cuban cigars with 100 dollar bills and listening to British rock bands on my Japanese CD player. Today is payday, so I'll be depositing my $50,000 weekly salary into my large corporate bank and laughing all the way there. This weekend I'll go to my cabin in the mountains and drink my imported French wine at $400 per bottle, spilling most of it on my carpet I'm sure. But I'll be thinking about ya when the sun goes down and the wolves start howling at the moon when I'm sitting in my hot-tub being tended to by the Swedish Bikini Team. Catch'cha on the flip side pad-na's

Yes I was being sarcastic about the Brits admiring the French. I have heard enough slagging on the French to last me a lifetime, which I thought was very curious because I thought of it as old news, like pre-printing presses??? But I guess theres some hostility left over from World War I and II as well, since the French gave up so easily, supposedly, to the Germans and the Brits had to fight them for near 2 years without assistance...thats as Ive heard it. Im not actually that familiar with the history. Im a dumb American, remember? So just rent the same movies I do, wear blue jeans, and then we'll talk....:P Right.

What's a rarry John, and how much should one tip it?

Fwoh, Denver, you sexy beast! Those snake-skin shoes of yours make my quiver go all a-quiver. I could argue with you about the 'reality' of working in a factory in Bangladesh and the 'realities' of moving from a no-pay agrarian to a wage-labour industrialised society, which leads to serious social and economic problems for the poor sods working for 2 cents a pop, but I'll hop off my soapbox for now. I've already had the argument with you and Missi over Mr. Bax and the Five-Cow Wife (thanks to neil-the-auditor), and we reached an impasse there too. Instead I'll fantasize about yer pink convertible and Cuban cigars. Grrroowwwwllll! ;-D

Ohhhh baby!

George, I have no issues with Neil, I understand his points and respect his opinions. He is opinionated and articulate. Nothing wrong with that. Now, if somebody wants to insult me simply because I'm an American, there's not much I can do about it and I won't waste time trying to change their mind. I'm secure enough in my skin to not need to attack other nationalities. J-lo's little fart wind above explains a great deal about him. Most of the Aussies I've met and been around are damn good and very fun people, but like everywhere, there are a few flakes. My guess is that he has as much trouble with his own as he does here with others. Shit runs downhill.

Yes! Offspring do not make their mothers beg

yes rugs are the perfect compliment to any dastardly situation...especially shag rugs, baby!

Scotland has a good relationship with the USA. When we break from england in the not to near future we are going to make New York our capital. Tell the fbi if they want to supply us with the arms we'll cut from england immediatly as were sick of there arrogance and prentious points of view towards Scots.

There's a big problem with the French - they think they have a language which other people ought to be able to speak.

lol supposedly the old time indians (im mixed blood red indian) thought the French language sounded like birds singing... but of course the old time indians thought that the Brits looked like hairy dogs cause of how thin their faces were and how hairy (indians usually cant grow a beard) and of course neither the French nor the Brits were particularly intelligent, I mean, ever see them find their way around a wood or shoot an arrow into a bird in flight? ahhh the good old days

"But I guess theres some hostility left over from World War I and II as well, since the French gave up so easily, supposedly, to the Germans and the Brits had to fight them for near 2 years without assistance...thats as Ive heard it. Im not actually that familiar with the history." You may want to read up on that one. There were millions of very brave people in the Frence resistance who carried on fighting the Nazis despite the fact that they were occupied. Unlike us, they didn't have the sea between the Nazis and their border, which obvioulsly made thier job quite a bit more difficult. The biggest single contribution to defeating the Nazis was probably made by the Russians, although I imagine that might have been glossed over by the US education system - they were evil commies, after all.