Care for a chew Ms. Fonda?

but she had such a nice arse!

You’re improving Ag…almost viable now…. Fonda’s stunt was more of a stunt than Moore’s. Moore orchestrated and planned his attack. Talk to a certain Mark Taylor of Littleton, Co. A wounded survivor of Columbine, Moore lied to him and everyone else here to further an agenda. Making millions in the process. Fonda was no where near as smart, nor shifty. As for bacy-chew’n shit kickers…well the particular fellow that spat upon Fonda isn’t a chewer. He took it up for the day, in a well thought out way. He waited in line to sign her new book, which will probably earn her millions…It was very similar to what she did 30 years ago, in its most pure form. Another thing (I'm on a roll now)...You think being an agriculture center makes KC a backy-chew'n bunch of idiots? The most modern farming techniques in the world come from that region. Kansas farmers are the most technologically advanced farmers on the planet. More food comes out of Kansas than Great Britain. Not to mention, there are more astronauts and top scientists from Kansas than any other place on earth. As for your knowledge of Vietnam Vets…you’re way over your head on this one….I am one. *Pat on the butt though…*

*snore*

C'mon...I'm giving you a chance....don't slink off now...

Seems a bit strange to blame an actress rather than the people who sent them there in the first place... but I suppose to do that they would have to admit it was a mistake and all their suffering, and the suffering they caused, was for nothing. [%sig%]

You're using good bait this week, denver :)

Yes. The weather is improving and I'm motivated.

I read the article, RD. I know he wasn't a baccy chewer. However, extolling the virtues of the finest agricultural methods in the world doesn't convince me that _most_ Midwesterners aren't, shall we say, a little short on exposure to some of the more internationally flavored cultural experiences. P-ting! *shoots a stream of baccy juice onto the Council carpet* And I'm sorry; you might be a Vet, by which I would hold you in the greatest esteem, (although the war itself remains a colossal mistake and not the vets' fault), but you can't hold that all vets, regardless of their feelings of 'brotherhood', are messed up, damaged, pissed-off, bitter, etc. Everyone is an individual, and like the vets of WWII, some were able to handle the strain and the horror much better than others. You can't lump all of a group, really, into a lump. Even Kansans. Ba-dum! And you'll never convince me to dislike Michael Moore. I'm rock-solid behind him. The Repubbies play dirty, why shouldn't the Lefties?

Playing dirty is one thing between political adversaries or combatants...Moore's using a 17 year old shooting victim and lying to an entire traumatized community for personal gain puts him in a league of his own. You worship the hog all you like. He’s a liar of the 1st magnitude and earns a living sucking the bones of dead innocents.

I don't think making the film to earn millions was his first port of call, RD. As I said above, he had a point to make about gun culture, social isolation/ostracism, and the levels of acceptable violence in the United States. The boy he took with him had a point to make as well, I think. And I don't "worship" him. I just agree with him. Do explain to me how you think he 'lied', Radio.

Well I can see who PNH is likely to be, Ag :)

Sorry, what's PNH, Smiley?

Well, lets start with the movie....it is so full of lies, it would make you puke. I'm gonna leave the kid out of it. I think he's been interviewed a number of times and has made his feelings known better than I could. The whole community here knows what happened...that's all that matters. Moore claims that Harris and Klybold went bowling the morning of the murders. They did no such thing. The free gun at the bank scene was totally staged... Moore films in the local Lockheed/Martin plant (just a mile or so from me now). He's going on about how this somehow relates to the columbine killers and motivates them to do their shooting. Well, the plant he's claiming is making weapons of mass destruction isn't a plant that makes weapons of mass destruction (I know this first hand as a fact and so did he when he filmed it) In fact, they are satellite launch vehicles. He probably uses their payloads to talk on his cell phone when he's making movie deals. He says that they get moved around at night so nobody will know that there are massive nuclear warheads moving through our streets at night. Well, that's bullshit. Everybody here knows what they are and when they move. They move at night because they are friggn big and there is less traffic. It just keeps going on and on...I'm not going to rehash the movie...it's mostly fabrication and bullshit, by any reasonable stretch of the imagination...Plus you have the infamous F 9/11 movie, where the whole thing begins with a lie before it was even released and more crap in it than the Bowling for Columbine. Google it or something, it's pretty well documented.

I don't want to raise all the Vietnam issues again except that I consider the Vietnamese to be a brave and heroic people who suffered terribly from US aggression and I'm only sorry that the tobacco-spitting piece of shit actually came back from 'Nam when other decent guys didn't. You have some of the filthiest and vilest "patriots" in the whole world, Gary.

Which tobacco spitting piece of shit would you be talking about Neil? I think the French had as much to do with Vietnam as anybody, we sorta inherited their shitty mess so they could keep their rubber plantations out of commie hands and all...why? I don't have a clue... The Vietnamese suffered by the hands of their own more than anyone else, it was a civil war you know. The Americans, French, British, Aussies...all had a share in that pot and all were ineffective in the long run. Now, about patriots...Every other country has their own version, England has some prime examples.....How many of ours do you know Neil? I mean, personally know? Have you ever met one that spit tobacco? Could it be possible that you've formulated an opinion based on something you don't really know about but have only seen in a movie or on tv or read in a magazine? I'd bet you that there were as many shit-head tobacco spitters serving in Vietnam as there are in your town today.

Radio, your batting average has plummeted and your run average is even worse. If you're not careful you'll wind up second-round pick for the Pee Wee leagues, man. Like my Roman Empire analogy, you're simply not seeing the forest for the trees. I will re-re-interate: Michael Moore's message, in both B4F and F9/11, has to do with very large lobbies, like the NRA, and the military-industrial machine, perpetrating and perpetuating an atmosphere in the United States that is pro-aggression, pro-violence, and plays to the fears of less-well-educated (and some frighteningly educated) people about 'Others', whether they be your neighbours, boys in black clothes, or Muslims. You seem to be a highly intelligent man: why don't you see these things, D?

Potential Next Husband, Ag ;o)

I doubt I'll ever marry again, Moonman, although that doesn't rule out living in sin...;-)

I thought you were going to the ABC meet tonight, Ag.

No, changed my mind. I cycle about 14 miles a day, to and from work. I don't want to have to hop on a train to get down to London after that. Plus the trains don't run by my village after a certain time, and I live rather far from the main station. If it were on a Friday, then maybe. A Thursday? Can't do.

Ag, You've yet to accurately dispute a single fact I've presented and in return presented nothing factual to support your case. My batting average is 1000 young lady. The dugout is over there...You've wiffed again. I understand Michael Moore's message. He's "anti-gun, anti-what ever." I have no problem with the anti-gun lobby's message, I have a problem with the messenger. I have a problem with my point of view being represented by a liar. My causes aren't his causes. I'm as much anti-gun and anti-violence as anybody you've ever met. What I don't do is I don't lie about the facts. You can not argue a case to a successful conclusion until you have credibility. Michael Moore undermines the credibility of the very people he claims to be helping. He's in it for money, not for the cause. He just latched on to a cause that will make him money. No if's and or but's about it. What's the word...Charlatan, that about sums him up.

A bit too far for me at the moment but I may make the effort next time. Now if it were a beach party...

So, what's the prize fish to catch in England Smiley?

Denver, I'm not an expert on Michael Moore or Columbine; I watched both those documentaries once. I'm not obsessed by what he says, doesn't say, says accurately, or lies about, and therefore don't feel the need to justify my position or substantiate it with facts dredged up from some obscure encyclopaedia. What he says basically holds true, and it's rather silly to suggest that whilst the NRA, Lockheed/Martin, and George W. Bush can spread as many lies, undisclosures, and misrepresentations they want in order to promote their agendas, those in opposition to them are not allowed to counter with whatever tactics they can. MM is just trying to get the people of America to THINK, for fuck's sake, something most people in the States are VERY bad at. They're too busy buying a new gas-guzzling Hummer to polish in their triple garage before driving down to Safeway to buy their genetically-modified steaks to slap on the bbq before stuffing them into their fat, complacent, ignorant bellies. My, that -was- a run-on sentence. Tsk, tsk.

A lot depends on your method of fishing, denver... You can catch Rainbow Trout by tickling them if you have a light enough touch.

I don't own a Hummer.

lol, RD! :-D

You can catch archergirls by tickling them, as well... *chortle*

Haddock and chips dever.

Oh...most of the people I know are pretty sharp too...even if they do shop at Safeway.

I'm a lobster man.

It's a miracle you can type with those big claws...

My Iguana does my typing. He's good at dictation.

And doubtless the people -you- hang with are intelligent, RadioD. I meant the other 364,999,999. ;-D

Radio's a nerd. So are the people he hangs with.

You're over by about 65,000,000...are those illegal lobsters?

Someone should change the title of this thread to "Digression." Sheesh. First thing here is that Jane Fonda was well over the age of 20 in 1972. She is 67 now. And her best work was in Barbarella and Klute. Otherwise, she is rather talentless in my view. As reprehensible as her posing was, it pales in comparison to the real criminals: LBJ, MacNamara, Westmoreland, Laird, Nixon, et al....even the sainted John F Kennedy does not get off on this one. They are the real culprits--the ones who deserve to be spat upon. In fact, I would like to see LBJ's carcass disinterred and stewn along Pennsylvania Avenue so everyone who so desired could dance on his bones and piss in his skull. I would like to see the same happen to MacNamara--and he is still alive, so it would be a much more interesting show. Imagine the ratings! As for the Viet Nam Vets, there has been a lot of revisionist history ever since Clinton ran in 1992. At that time, the only thing I LIKED about Clinton was the fact that he had NOT served in Viet Nam. By the late 60s and early 70s only a freaking jackass would have gone to Viet Nam. When John Kerry went, it was well before the obvious became obvious, so I give him a pass on his military service--especially in light of his anti-war efforts after being discharged. As for myself, I've never 'served' in the military or 'been' in the military. I was subject to the first lottery draft in 1969, as was Bill Clinton. We both got relatively high numbers and were never drafted. I was a freshman in college at the time and vividly recall the radio broadcast of the lottery numbers. I only listened for a few minutes, though every radio was tuned to it, because I was actually hoping for a low number. I wanted a really good reason to leave the country and never come back. Sadly, my number was 171 and they only called people up to 159 in my pool year. In my view, the country has never done a damn thing for me, and as a result, I certainly don't owe anyone any 'service.' And for the record, I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, where I spent the first 18 years of my life. The American MidWest is like anywhere: it's fine for people who like it. I don't, but I don't hate it. I'm just not interested. Having lived in NYC and Connecticut for many years, I've often found New Yorkers and the East Coast establishment types just as narrow-minded and ignorant at their narrow-minded and ignorant counterparts in craggrass heaven. In fact, many of the most profoundly igornant narrowminded twats I've ever known have been Ivy League liberals--and Londoners. I've never seen any of Moore's films, but my impression of him from seeing many interviews is that he is a self-serving wind-up artist who was born about 10 years too late to be a pompous twat in the Sixties, so he's trying to do it now. I see him as a satyrist. He is certainly not a reporter. Actually, I'm bored to tears with this whole subject.

I guess I just don't get patriotism - to me it's a sort of disease which cripples rational thinking and allows people who might otherwise be decent to commit atrocities.

Well, she might have been older, but she certainly wasn't much wiser. And if you're bored, then don't reply! Sheesh. Go read one of ritawrites' bonkers threads. We're having a serious discussion about lobsters here...

having someone spit in your face isn't very mild. It's a very intimate violation of your personal space having someone's bodily fluids spat at you without permission. (heh - but seriously it is). America. Land of the free.

"I've never seen any of Moore's films, but my impression of him from seeing many interviews is that he is a self-serving wind-up artist who was born about 10 years too late to be a pompous twat in the Sixties, so he's trying to do it now." I echo James's view on this, have not seen the films but the man when interviewed is clearly untrustworthy... 'clever' bombast will get you anyplace in the media, never mind if what you spout is utter rubbish. Radio's charges that he manipulated victim's stories to suit his ends do not surprise me in the least.... Why should they be upset when he is supposedly taking up their case? Vile.

how can you tell if someone is untrustworthy by an interview? Can you tell anything about anyone when they are projecting in public? I'm not arguing for or against Moore here (although I do like his bombast I find some of his arguments full of holes and I would have done it differently and better - ha!), but it seems strange when people say, 'i can just tell he's bad' by the way they come across. Sometimes you can tell jack shit about people from how they come across. Otherwise when people who live near people who are committing domestic abuse or work with people who do, they would do something about it, wouldn't they? Most people would be horrified to know what goes on in the homes of some of their colleagues.

"how can you tell if someone is untrustworthy by an interview?" By personal experience I suppose. It is less to do with what someone says than how they say it. It is an instinctive reaction too, of course that is my opinion... I did not like him.... His agenda came through, yet he tried to conceal it.... so untrustworthy. This would not put me off seeing his films (I am actually curious to see what the fuss is about), but you know what, I cannot be bothered to go out of my way for them.

I would recommend you seeing them before passing judgment. They most definitely -do- have an axe to grind, but I think it's an axe with a sharp edge, already. Would you find him more 'trustworthy', I wonder, if he wasn't fat, scruffy, unwashed-looking, and didn't wear glasses? Would you be likely to listen to him more if he looked, say, like Ronald Reagan?

MM, in case you haven't noticed, ritatripes has been eradicated from the site, and not before time. Who's next cobber?

Sorry, Missi, I last looked on the other phorum last week, when she was smearing her love around in a darkish brown smudge. It's too bad, in a way. When she did write sanely, she was very good, I thought.

Maybe, but a 1% hit rate ain't good enough.

Well, The American baseball team Colorado Rockies Suck have officially changed their name again. They are now the Colorado Rockies Really Suck!

Maybe you need to draft a few more first-string lobsters there, Radio.

I'll tell you how bad it's getting here. Denver is a pretty safe town, the crime rate isn't nearly as bad as many other cities..depending on what part of town you're in...but.... Last night, around 11PM, I was driving back from work and stopped at a convenience store to pick up some smokes...I locked my truck and went inside. I talked to the guy at the counter for a few minutes, paid for the cigarettes and left. When I came out to get into my truck, somebody had broken the driver side window and left two Colorado Rockies tickets on the dash board.