A Gift For Sunny_day

You have discovered a question that has always concerned me - can we ever be sure who we talk to... I used to think that people were like cars with dark windows the only way to be sure who was driving is to recognise the way they drive...

I used to sit in pubs and watch the gods decend on the unwary certain that in the morning they would depart and leave their poor host to deal with the consequences.

Not a bad analogy. You've got your cautious drivers, your speed freaks, people who jump the lights, people who run over anyone in their path, people who always obey the rules and then the ones who down a couple of bottles of whisky, leap out of their cars and start punching another person's lights out for some imagined insult before driving off a cliff in the dark. I like it.

The Silver Tounged Devil's got nothing to lose - I'll only live till I die.

As an alien looking down on Earth from far away. I see the strange dominant life form. They have slaves which clean them and live inside them and who rush out if there is any problem and do their best to help. The very important ones have flashing lights as badges of their status and are allowed to go where ever they please. There are some large creatures who lay paths for their smaller brothers to run up and down on and also other slaves who link these paths so their master can travel over liquid obstacles. It seems that slowly but surely these creatures are covering the earth with their kind. They seem to dislike green things and have their slaves cover everything in stuff of dark boring colours which destroys the green. They have a very large number of feeding holes where they congregate. Their breath is often dark and gathers into mists that hide them from my sight. It seems they will inevitably cover the entire planet.

you're warming to this theme arn't you Mike?

Hi Sunny, here are a couple of entries in my diary for Decembr 15th and 16th: I can't remerber which year : - Tuesday, Gave the presents and gifts to a friend, Then I remembered again the true beauty of existence and I marvelled. For I have seen The great Programer in action and realised He is like Aslan - mysterious. Wednesday: Will it ever end for them? Not until they find God and leave the Game. But know this -you cannot leave the Game until you have played your part and you no longer wish to leave. Having played your part it is a really awe inspiring setting. I have no idea why I wrote that! Any thoughts

Because you are are a nutcase?

Sounds reasonable to me Bryony.

How are you taday Sunny? I did not take my own advice and now I have a humdingger oh a hangover. The thrad got quite intresting though some very important issues wer skated over. Take care Sunny. I'm off back to bed becaue i can still hardle type.

I am glad because I read this thread and I understand that there are people who THINK, so really experience life and aren't passive victims of fate and "fate-creators". When I say fate-creators I mean all those invisible human factors that so eagerly desire humanity's lobotomy. Heracleitos said, those who are dormant are the workers and accomplices of the bad things that take place in the world.

I'm not sure that there is as much thinking going on as there seems to be. People seem to be limited by the belief that if it isn't within the scientific paradigm or within their limited experience then it’s either fantasy or rubbish. Perhaps this is why religion is out of fashion no body truly believes in miracles anymore. The only way people will consider truly extraordinary happenings in in a Sci-fi genre. Very limiting but not unexpected.

dude: heavy

Sounds like you had an epiphany Mykle. I had one too...but not in the same vein. Several months ago I was at the end of my tether. I couldn't cope any longer. I was doing five jobs, not for money or for personal satisfaction but for my mother who was dying day by day in front of me. I went out for a walk and sat on the sea front. I watched the wind drive the waves right over the side and the rain crash them down again and I asked the God of my childhood to show me a way to survive. He didn't respond. Not then while I was crying on the beach, not later when I went home to wash and feed my mother, not later in the hospital as I watched her struggle to breathe and not later still as I held her hand in the hospice as she slowly slipped away. My epiphany came at her graveside when we put her alone into the dark and I faced a future of doing those five jobs without her, because I couldn't let anyone down. God didn't give me respite...I got up the next day and went to work because I had no choice. And at her graveside I realised that I wasn't nothing because I didn't have God. God was nothing because he didn't have me. Now you might say that God must have shown me a way to survive because I'm still here. But I disagree. I did it all on my own.

These are good and touching stories. Thanks.

personal, true stories... by two wonderful persons... thank you Mykle! :o)))))))))))

Thanks 1leg. The story was for sunny_day but I'm pleased you found it good. Vicky: the point of my story was that God did nothing for me too - but only for a moment! In passing it's worth saying that since I was an aspiring Buddhist at the time I'm not totally sure who, or what, the force I call God is/was but I know what I wasn't.

And the point of my story is the opposite. If God did anything for me it was momentary and I didn't notice.....I'm still here though.. So are you still an aspiring Buddhist...or a fully fledged one now?

The point is Vicky He never stopped doing it for you! You've heard the story of the person walking with Christ on the sand. Pointing back the person asks why sometimes there is only one set of footprints and Christ explains "That's when I was carrying you." I'm a lapsed agnostic now-a-days Vic.

I knew you were going to say that. Now I like you Mykle, but you fell into my trap. A true Christian (in my opinion) would not try to pawn me off with "Trust in God, he works in mysterious ways" I've heard all the arguments ad naseum. I can't help but feel you're self-superiority here as well. I can't have managed to stay sane against all the odds because I'm a mere person so I must have needed help. Didn't get any from my family or anyone else...so I MUST have had God's. Well if God's so bloody wonderfull why doesn't he stop the nightmares so I can get a decent night s sleep? I'm not a bad person, I don't deserve to suffer. I can cope with the concept that that's just life and I've got to get over it. No problem. But God actually wanting me to go through this? If that's what God is like he's lost my vote Mykle and I've got a right to that opinion. Accept it. You can't win this opinion poll my friend. p.s. Yes I love that story Mykle. It makes me shiver every time. But if you want the honest truth I was doing all the carrying and they were all self confessed Christian's that needed/need me. So God wasn't there for them either was he?

Its about conquering the fear you had at the time.

that's so true 1legspider

One of the worst things about having to be strong is that as soon as you start to relax the smallest bit you fall to bits! I have a friend who went through nursing her mum till she died of cancer. She had to stop her teaching job as she also had a toddler to look after from a one-night-stand. After her mum died she felt like you and almost had a nervous breakdown. She became so anti-Christian that I invented Frog Day instead of Christmas (the only thing my printer could print really well at the time was a tree frog) so she could have a card she could bear to look at. Now several years later she is very evangelical and regularly has religious meetings at her home. I think I made it fairly plain that I don't pretend to be a Christian - I'm not sure what I am but I'm not an atheist. You say you that God wasn't there for all the self confessed Christians but you were - exactly! Buddhism teaches that we are all burned by the wheel of fire because we are held there by our attachments. Life is pain and then you die only to be reborn and be burned again. The only way to avoid pain is to be dead. But pain is useful it is the most powerful weapon for change - if it hurts too much stop doing it. The Prophet says: Youre joy is your sorrow unmasked. The selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with tears. The deeper that sorrow carves into your being the more joy you can contain. When you are sorrowful, look again in your heart, and you will see the truth - you are weeping for that which has been a delight!

This is hard work on a Friday night Sunny - I feel like a drink myself no ;-) I keep trying to read your poem 1leg but it keeps timing out - must be very popular!

Well at least we agree on one thing mike, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" That could describe my life at the moment. I'm 25, I look about 14 and I feel 60. Pain and grief and hardship make you grow and I'm not unnaware of that. I can see the silver lining in most clouds and I'm glad to be alive because I've learnt to LIVE. I'm just not sure how much God has to do with all this. Any God.

I really liked it 1leg ! It's strange that singing and dancing are often used for metaphors for being with God or the devil perhaps. Perhaps they are our oldest languages, some half remember genetic history of schools of creatures swaying with the currents of the deep or whales sounding the depths to be heard hundred of miles away by their distant kin. Sorry, I sound like I've had that drink already....

Have one for me Myke...I could use it

I loved the poem too 1leg... very visual if you know what I mean.

i wouldn't be so quickt to believe that if something doesn't kill you it will make you stronger. I see plenty of evidence that if it doesn't kill you, it might make you a cripple instead, physically, emotionally, however. I've never found suffering to be automatically enobling. It might work that way, but my observation is that it usually creates a lot of permanent damage.

Wait until you're 45, feel 60 and think you're 14 vicky;-) Wilde was right "Youth is a wonderful thing - it's a pity it's wasted on the young." Sorry Vicky! I'm tired of being serious. Poor old Vitty went bonkers which is why I wrote Sunshine Superman as a guide to others who believe "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Did you read my peace on Faith? I should have thought you would understand it very well at the moment. I know it's hard to believe but just when you think you can't go any further - you see the light at the end of the tunnel. Then the roof caves in :-) Be honest - aren't you proud you can stand up and sing I did it my way?

its a savage garden were creatures eat each other to survive. I have my doubts about whether there is a God. i write a lot about God, but don't really believe in him. If there is a God then he is not all loving, an all loving God wouldn't create such a harsh world to survive in. Full of beauty, but at the same time full of diseases and predators. He is a mixture of good and evil. God says somewhere in Genesis, ' Look man has eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, now he has become like one of us, bar the way to the tree of life lest he become immortal as well..' perhaps the fruit from the tree of knowledge was when man became self-conscious. Before that we were like animals who didn't think - but suddenly we ate from the fruit and saw that we were naked. Perahps that's what makes us like the Gods - self-consciousness - the gift of choice. The ability to choose between right and wrong. it also says somewhere ' all good and evil comes from the mouth of Yahweh.' and in the book of Job the devil is portrayed as Gods servant. there is another interesting theory that says that Jesus and Lucifer are actually brothers, and the story of Cain and Abel is actually the story of Jesus and Lucifer. Lucifer gets Jealous of jesus. But I don't know about that theory. Still its an interesting idea. Good and evil is what we are. I am learning to accept this, just as I am no longer afraid of death. I met death and looked into its eyes and the first time I saw it I was afraid of it and resisted. But now death is my brother/sister and I will not fear it. Death is a gift from God, if there is a God. This is not morbid what I'am about to say, but I actually am looking forward to dieing. It will be an awesome adventure man.. when i die I hope people celebrate and have a big rave party.. I'll even leave the money in my will for people to do this. don't think what I just wrote answered anything though. *** you see we dream of messiahs and they come, because we dream of them. but nothing ever changes it always remains the same.

You're absolutely right Justyn, I was talking metaphorically though. You can die in lots of ways without your heart stopping. Sometimes just dying a peice at a time day by day. Think of it in terms of hanging over the edge of a precipice, eventually you either give up and let go...or you reach up and pull yourself over. Maybe I'm using the royal "you" here. This is my experience however.

I didn't say I didn't have faith Mike. I said I didn't have faith in God.

Some Chinese see life as a man hanging from a vine in a well. He can't go up because there is a bull waiting; he can't let go because there is a Dragon waiting at the bottom. Glancing around he sees a flower with some nectar on it and tastes the nectar. Some add two little caterpillars one black the other white eating through the vine. Gather nectar while you may...

Justyn: I'm sure that "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" represents an attitude more than a philosophy. It is too unbalaced to be taken seriously as anything more than 'I will not be beaten - I will grow from this.' Although I have heard of people who regularly take poison on a similar assumption.....

Dear Mykle and Vicky Its good to see a debate without all the usual suspects. Refreshing. Of course when Funky appears in any debate it is always enlightening. Ralph

Here is a thought for you Funky. Imagine that there are only two entities in the Universe - you and the other. The other is everything you think is real and it is trying to seduce you. It creates all the characters who inhabit your world and sustains you and what you believe to be reality - but it wants you.... It wants you to do its bidding without question; it needs for you to give yourself to it. Is it God or the Devil and does it matter?

Damb and blast! I've weakened and had cigarette. Still the Oak tree stopped laughing at the weakness of the Pine when his branches broke in the blizzard!

neither.....it's the matrix

The Matrix doen't want you it wants you electricity. The other wants you... It is lonely, you are its only companion. It wants to strip away the layers that still seperate until it absorbs you. Like an unfulfilled husband waiting to posess his unwilling bride - constantly coaxing... Dare you sucumb: Will the union bring terror or ecstacy: What will remain of you if you sacrifice your will?

You have a dark past don't you Mykle? Interesting story.... way beyond me though...a courtcase said I have no imagination. ;)p

I thought the court case was part of a dastardly plot by the Holmfirth and Polemoor Tolkien Society to blacken you name. Wheren't you exhonerated?

How dare you! I 'm not that kind of girl.

I was chatting to God one day and I asked Him if we would ever figure everything out. He told me that to understand everything about anything you must understand everything about everything - since they are all connected. Then He laughed and told me that if we ever get too close to understanding most everything about something He just adds another sub routine. He was just adding one at the time and I asked what it did. "I don't know" He laughed "That's for you to figure out."

Well if you're talking to him again will you ask him something for me? "How?" He'll understand.... .....probably.

An exasperated mother, whose son was always getting into mischief, finally asked him, "How do you expect to get into Heaven?" The boy thought it over and said, "Well, I'll run in and out and in and out and keep slamming the door until St. Peter says, "For Heaven's sake, Jimmy, either come in or stay out!" That's if Peter hasn't been replaced by Bill Gates and now you need to get in through the Windows. *ducks*

Potrait of a fallen Man. Cigarettes, vodka and chocolate! The shame!

Vicky: He said "Don't ask Me - that's why I created you in the first place!" "None of it really matters it just gives you something to keep you occupied." "It IS, you ARE, I AM." "What do you need that you do not have?"

well I wouldn't mind a playstation 2

You are mistaking want for need Funky.