thoughtcafe - again

No, it isn't Don - but it does have a lot of crossover users and it is a damn good site. I don't use any other writing site, so am not in a position to make recommendations about relative merits. For me, thoughtcafe is very good at the things abc is not so good at, and vice versa, so they complement each other well. I'd hate abc to be a compulsory paying site, but nor do I want to see it vanish, or for a minority of very decent people to be the only ones supporting it. I signed up for life membership of thoughtcafe, because I felt thirty-odd quid was well worth what I'd got back from thoughtcafe. It would be nice to have paypal or something up and running so that if visitors felt like kicking over a tenner when they were a bit flush, they could do it without the faff of writing a cheque and sending it off.

Well, I should definitely give it a second look!

I don't usually reveal much of my private side, however, you are all very important to me, as is ABC. I am retired and have not been a good steward of my former funds. I have not the resource to pay. I do WANT to pay, but cannot at this time. If that changes, the group, especially Mr. Pack, are important to me and I shall remit when possible. God! I hate admitting publically that I'm broke. David Ritchie

I am sending my abc tales money in the next month also joining tc, would urge all people who use abc to subscribe as obviously costs are involved and the guys who run this site are topnotch.

I second, that Stephen_d very much so...

I took a look at the Thought Cafe, signed up as a free user and submitted a piece, and I honestly see little reason for me to a second short story website. (If the advantage of the Thought Cafe is feedback, then I didn't get any!) I do like ABCtales a lot and I hope it sticks around. Hosting short story competitions, I think, is definitely going on the right track, and I think there should be more of them. Maybe a 20-theme poetry competition ought to follow.

Donignacio: I posted three items on Thoughtcafe, had some positive comments back which I value and read a whole stream of poetry from one of those who commented.

I have no wish to detract from your highly commendable appeal for subscriptions to F.O.ABC Andrew, but your assumption that the users on Thoughtcafe are somehow infinitely more loyal and generous is fatally flawed I'm afraid. How do I know this? Well I am not a frequent visitor to the site, but having read you initial post took a look this evening and to my surprise found that both of my user names there are listed as Annual Members. I haven't to date applied for any kind of membership and so my accreditations are in error. (I will be rectifying this asap.) It is reasonable to assume that many of the other listed memberships are also false. Having said all that, I like Andrew, am very dissappointed at the low level of subscribers here. I know that there are quite a few students, unemployed, pensioners etc. who don't have the spare cash to give but the list at present (assuming that ALL friends are listed in the roll of honour) stands at less than fifty. Seems to me there are a lot of people here that have their work on display, who have no other excuse for not paying than that they are just plain bloody tightfisted. Shame on you.

Don't know if I'm talking from my posterior here (I usually am), but on signing up for thoughtcafe members are offered the option to donate there and then, I think. Does ABC do this now? I don't know, as obviously I registered a long time ago. If not, this could help a bit. Like you, Andrew, I'm amazed that a lot more people haven't taken the opportunity to become 'friends of ABC' - come on folks, if you can spare the wonga, send it in!

i think the answer is that all 'old' members have been granted an automatic year's membership.

No, it was a months memebership, which isn't annual.

well, i dunno, but looking down the lists of authors, EVERYONE'S accredited with annual membership, except the people who joined after the big announcement. like you, Missi, i haven't paid anything (though i intend to).

Another idea is to post the deposit account number. That way, people who have internet access but no bank account, could deposit a couple of pounds at the bank. The paypal thing is also a good idea, probably relevant to more people.

Here comes the pensioner again but can all you youngters in lighten me is what your talking about the £20 we were asked to donate some time ago as I sent mine, or is this something diffident. Answers please...

Are you really a pensioner Kath? And there was me thinking if I played my cards right, and Wiggins wasn't about, I could whisk you off to foreign parts for a couple of weeks riotous clubbing. The subject of this thread is the poor response to appeals for users to become friends of ABCtales and part with 20 quid, and as you say you sent your cash, and your name is in lights along with the other friends in the roll of honour. (You can find this through the link on the front page.)

Work is nicely displayed and easy for people to find at Thoughtcafe and I like that a lot. I'm undecided as to whether I'm going to pay up or not.

Have paid up. I hope they can track my account down to convert it to an annual membership. I use a different email account for writing on Thoughtcafe. Does this matter? Also I have made use of the post photo option, so you can all see what I look like. :)

I did see four or five people who weren't anything, and they had me down as silver, when I'm actually gold, so maybe Missi is right. My point really is that these sites aren't going to work as something for nothing, and that to be honest, twenty quid isn't a lot to ask for what you get out of this site. I don't think the Friends roll lists everyone (my name has never appeared on it, for one), but I reckon it is at least 90%. We have 7500 registered users - a tenner from everyone would keep the site going for two years, which might well be enough to get other revenue generated. Point really is - the site costs money, and although we have trimmed costs as best we can, it still costs more than we bring in. Not hard to do the maths from that.

Thoughtcafe is a nice site and deserves support but then so does UKAuthors, another relatively new site that has gone through troubled times recently. Both of these sites have had host problems, but ABC itself hasn't been trouble free over the last year. I believe they all have something to offer and also have strengths and weaknesses, but the one thing they all have in common is that they provide an opportunity for aspiring writers to display their work worldwide. ABC is by far the largest site of the three and has to some extent become a victim of it's own success, it also has the best organised forum area of any site I have visited. Personally I believe if it needs compulsory subscriptions to survive the management should bite the bullet and instigate them. Thoughtcafe is a very friendly place which has up until now been completely financed by it's husband and wife team, Wendy and Jonathon Beckett. As it is a non-commercial site (with no pop-ups or advertising) there was always going to be a point where money, or more accurately the lack of it, became a problem. This is why they have been forced to apply some sort of user finance. It would be a shame if it closed for want of a few bob. Lastly but not least, UKAuthors is another nice place to be. It isn't very large as yet, partly because of re-design work that is on going, but it is very friendly and a lot of work has gone into it. It is also the only one of the three to so far provide a chatroom for it's users. I spend time there along with several other ABC'ers and users from the other two sites. I'd hate to see any of these sites close, they deserve whatever support they can get and need.

Spent two hours on Paypal this morning trying to get it sorted but need to get some techie assistance. It all seems possible but there are a few problems. I'm away next week but I will try and get it all on there by the week after next. pip pip tc

...hmmm, then again, Iceman, the piece I submitted isn't exactly something that would prompt much valuable feedback because whoever reads it probably thinks: "Oooooooooookay, whatever has this guy been smoking?" Just for the record, I don't have a problem paying a subscription for ABC --- but if I were a newcomer I would. Also, as a newcomer, I would expect more service from the site such as detailed critiques with no added cost. (That would be attractive, wouldn't it!) And I'm sure there are enough people willing to help on that front.

The figure may be 7500, but I imagine far less are frequent uses. When I'm using the random story generator, if I like a story a lot, I go to see what else that author has produced, and in the majority of cases, it seems the author has uploaded 3 to 10 stories onto ABC and given up. Don't you have any way of monitoring how many users we really have? Mind you, that's nothing compared to the hideousness of Neopets, and their boasts of however million users. Every one has a page that tells you when they were last on, so I went on a hunt for random registered users who still used the site. Not a one. Every single random user I found had last logged in some time in 2000, or early 2001, had one neopet and had played a couple of games. This is the result, I suspect, of a company having too much money - they generate revenue, it seems, from shamelessly promoting Internet products to their young losers, and offering them neopoints (Neopet currency,) for taking 'surveys' which give your email addresses to porn peddlers. They spend the money they get on lots of advertising, so that, it seems to me, a load of people log onto the site, realise what a badly developed pile of s.hite it is, and leave it for good. But they see the truth too late to avoid being countered as one of the 'millions' of users. Bah.

It makes no damn difference how many items a user has posted, they are still there permanently for whoever wishes to read them, and as long as they remain on the site they are legitimately counted as users. Permanent users!

I think the Paypal idea is a good one. The trouble is if you start limiting people according to their membership level (as t-caff seems to have done) then this goes against the ethos of the ABC site as inclusive. It seems to me that membership to ABC will have to be a voluntary goodwill thing as the Friends thing already is - although it does boast some benefits. I am a friend of ABC and would certainly find it simpler to pay in future by paypal or something like it. I am sure lots more people would as they are probably lazy toads like me. As for the lifetime membership thing - not sure about it. The internet is a changeable thing. Annual memberships would be better I think. ABC provides me with entertainment, friends and inspiration and I am happy to pay for that.

I've only visited the thought cafe maybe once -- Is it related to ABCtales? I always assumed it was not, but people keep bringing it up!