Can't...stop...changing...it!

Yes you can stop changing it! Just stop! Write it. Read it the next day, make your changes and then post it. It's only six months later as your re-read it, after writing loads of other stuff and having your head completely cleared, that you can judge your own piece of work - and even then you'll probably get it wrong. Good writing is good writing is good writing. The subject matter and the hold it has upon the reader is dependent on the reader - that's why it's called subjective judgement. As in most things it is bravery in the face of insuperable odds that wins the day. Ah, the charge of the light brigade. Half a league, half a league...

This is a good happy medium suggested by Tony. I find its very easy to add, but very hard to take away. There's a lot to be said for the raw strength of a piece, though a judicial bit of polish can work wonders. The way I see it, if there's a grain of something in there, that will come through. Maybe the trick Si is to do two versions, post up the one you're first happy with and then submit another more polished version later, see which you and others prefer. You could even have two complete sets of tales, one raw and one cooked.

I agree with Andrew. I look back at some stuff that I wrote yonks ago, and cringe at a lot of it, but there is usually something I can salvage...after all, if the piece was inspired by something, then l can usually work on it again, but with a fresh eye. I cant do that with stuff that lve recently written though, as its too "new". In that case, I usually give it to someone whose opinion I respect, and ask them what they think, hoping that they'll be honest. That often helps you to pull out what is worth saving, and if you cant work any more on it, and youre still not happy, file it, and forget it for a while. Some of the best stuff that anyone produces, is that which is written in minutes...but also, polished and edited writing can gleam. Anyway.......perhaps I should go over this message, and clean it up..... nah, sod it, l'll just post it :o)

Okay, Fey and Liana both raise good points. We have here what is really a loose-knit writers cooperative. I am quite willing to have a look at anything that someone is unsure about to offer some constructive criticism. Let me be clear, I am not holding myself out as any sort of expert, or editing genius, but a fresh eye on work that you are not quite ready to paste up might help. Perhaps if others offer the same on this thread then anyone who wants to take advantage of the service can pick someone they want. Also, I really can't read 100 odd stories.

hi tzara i just normally rely on my own eye ... feel a bit mean forcing some other poor human to read my stuff ... generally i read things aloud and that is a way of picking up errors that the eye glides over normally ...

Well, that seem to have stirred things up a bit! Thanks for the replies, guys..... :) Nice to see that everyone else is swimming in treacle, just like me . I can relate to a lot of what has been said, which is very interesting to observe, as a new writer. I suppose the next question is: When is it time to let go? Of the six pieces I've bestowed upon this site (ahem), one of them started life as a pretty appalling piece of writing. I attempted mouth-to-mouth through much editing, but alas, it surely was a goner. However, a day later, I rewrote it in four hours, and it ended up "Story of the Day". So how do you know when to lay something to rest? Guess that's what scares me about writing a WHOLE BOOK! Imagine reaching the end and realising you've written a 500 page dog? Nightmare..... Simon. P.S. A note to Carly - nice to meet you too, and I'm glad you enjoyed my original post.....all I need to do now is to make my stories entertaining.....! If only there a market for writing email, I might be onto a winner.....

I'm the same as you, Ivory. I usually have to crop the last two paragraphs. But I wished it stopped there. I find that I have to take much more away than to add. Simon: great post!

pleased you started this simon cos it's useful to see people's approaches. with most of my own stuff i tend to look at it and think it's got some potential, but i can never get it just right and if i keep re-writing i end up with something i like less than when i started. i tried the other extreme at the weekend, i.e posting something here that was completely raw and unrevised - i looked at it the next day and couldn't believe how crap it was. [deleted it immediately but unfortunately 10 people had read it by then!] it seems to be the more experienced writers among us who have found ways that suit them, so perhaps it is just trial + error or something. (*fey, think you've got me muddled with someone else!)

i saw it fey .... it was very short and i memorised it accidentally ... would you like me to recite it to you???

i'm warning you fishbone! [sorry fey, forgot about the footy thing, but that was more an excercise in trying to earn a few quid, and had nothing to do with proper writing, really...lots of broccoli and lots of cake, yum)

oooooops .. sorry ... thought my phone was ringing ... now where WAS i .... ah yes ....

if you do this the poodle gets it!

*gasps and clutches poodle to bosom* *poodle also looks stricken tho not sure whether it is the threat or the bosom causing stricken look*

Whilst I have written fiction all my life, on and off, my real honing as a writer cam about through my job for 18 years - that of a radio reporter. Then you have to write very fast, very clearly and very accurately. It has to be entertaining, informative and to the point. Get it wrong and you get blasted from one end of the universe to the other. I worked at IRN (Independent Radio News in the UK) and we had a breakfast audience of 26 million at the time. Muck up and you muck up big time. My point is this. Imagine as you write that 26 million people are going to hear this - so get it right first time. Then imagine that you are telling your story to one person. Get a mental picture of that person (mine was always of an old granny rocking in her chair with the old Roberts radio playing on the mantelpiece) and tell her your story in words that she will understand. Try it and see the difference!

Good post Tony, especially the last line.

what did i tell you even your posts are getting praise....oh i feel so proud (*_*)

YOUR POST WAS SO GOOD, I COULDN'T HELP PASTING IT, SO I CAN REPLY TO IT BETWEEN THE LINES - EXCUSE MY CAPS - IT'S NOT SHOUTING - I JUST DO IT TO KEEP TRACK OF WHICH ONE IS YOU AND WHICH ONE IS ME - Y'KNOW? Thought it was about time I stuck my oar in! WELL, YA GOTTA' HAVE BOTH OARS IN THE WATER OR THE BOAT AIN'T GOIN' ANYWHERE Just musing over a few things, so I thought I'd ask you folk..... or perhaps just think out loud, if no-one's interested :( When I write, I plan what I'm writing (but only very briefly - I can't help myself.....gotta write NOW!). YEP - I IDENTIFY WITH THAT - I SOMETIMES WRITE JUST WHEN I'M WAKING UP - SOMETIMES I CAN ACTUALLY HOLD ONTO THE THOUGHT AND AM ABLE TO WORK ON IT Then I find myself producing a 1st draft, which is then edited, redited, edited again.....and again. And again. THAT TOO! In the end, I find I'm swapping words around, or changing a single word for another, agonising over minute detail. THAT'S WRITING! Does anyone else do this? Does EVERYONE else do this? Or am I completely crazy? YES - TO ALL QUESTIONS; 1) YES, SOMEONE ELSE DOES THIS; 2) YES - MOST EVERONE DOES THIS; 3) YES - OF COURSE YOU'RE CRAZY ... YOU'RE A WRITER - WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WEIRD AND ECCENTRIC Then it occurred to me: No matter how much you fiddle, if the story ain't interesting, what the hell are you doing fiddling! NOW, THAT'S NOT NICE! IT'S YOUR JOB AS THE WRITER TO MAKE THE STORY INTERESTING - THERE'S A STORY IN EVERYTHING - JUST GOING TO THE STORE FOR A QUART OF MILK HAS A STORY TO IT I wonder how much writing there is that is elegant, ingenious and brilliantly crafted, but is dull, dull, DULL. A HALE OF A LOT .... Perhaps mine is too - I don't know any more, because by the time I've finished a piece, I've read it a hundred times. Only when someone else reads what I've written do I realise whether it is true genius or a giant pair of pants. CHECK THE POCKETS FOR MONEY AND GET BACK TO ME Agree? Disagree? BOTH ... SOMETIMES A WRITER THINKS THE PIECE IS JUST TERRIFIC THEN FINDS OUT NOBODY FINDS IT INTERESTING - IT DOES HAPPEN - NO POINT PUTTING YOU ON ABOUT THAT - YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR WORK HONESTLY - ASK YOURSELF IF YOU WOULD FIND IT INTERESTING DISAGREE? WELL, I WORK AT IT .... WE ARE EACH OF US MERE HUMANS - EVEN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL AUTHOR HAS FILES FULL OF RE-DRAFTS Take Isaac Asimov, for instance.....by his own admission, he wrote in a very simple way. The charm is in his ideas, his stories, the clarity of his writing, yes? YES - HE CAME UP WITH SOME SMASHING STORIES - I THINK HE JUST LET HIS MIND ROLL - IT'S ALL BASED ON THE 'WHAT IF' - YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW IT STEPHEN KING - I ONCE HEARD HIM DESCRIBED AS A WRITER THAT MAKES STORIES OF EVERYTHING THAT GOES BUMP IN THE NIGHT FOBIA ABOUT MANHOLE COVERS? WELL, THERE YA GO .... So, the lesson I learned: Don't fiddle with it (you'll go blind!), unless you've got the basics right. LESS FIDDLIN' - MOVE THE PEN ACROSS THE PAGE - RIGHT NOW! Phew. (I'll get my coat). 'TIS JUST AS WELL, I GUESS - YE'LL BE TUCKERED OUT BY NOW NICE TO MEET YOU MY FRIENDS CALL ME CARLY - HOPE YOU'LL DO THE SAME :-)

simon i reckon that writers can fiddle with things forever and there's all that "a poem is NEVER finished" business ... but i think the point i'd like to make is that sometimes by fiddling TOO much a writer can flatten a piece and it can lose its initial energy ... this is not against rewriting ... which i think it VITAL ... but is about recognising when the interference is becoming obsessive and unnecessary ... maybe its experience ... and i agree feedback from other's whose opinion the writer respects ... that leads to this "letting go" point but in my experience even when a thing is in print i can look at it and feel aaaaaargh .... i could change that / make it better .... (and usually ... damn! i didn't need those last 2 lines) cheers ivory

I agree whole-heartedly with Ivory. Most of my stories take about 4 drafts, but it can be a much as 10. More often than not it's grammatical (bad grammar irritates the hell out of me - in my stuff, anyway) but, as Ivory said, you can be forever substituting this word for that and spending more time poring over your Thesauras (wonderful as it is) than actually writing the thing. There has to come a point when you think (or at least I think) 'Ok, that's it, or I could be changing this forever...send the bloody thing'. I do think, though, that getting a piece grammatically correct is extrememly important (most ed's, seeing bad grammar, will bin yer efforts without further ado)...pity I'm not better at it myself... Was wondering...does BG put other Talers off too? I remember one of my tutors saying 'You know when you're becoming a 'writer', because you start to edit as you read'... Agree with Ivory again...I absolutely cringe when I look at my stuff in print...better not to, sometimes...

Hi, Every time I write a particular piece out, in some way I change it. A bit off here, a bit added there. Then I think that's Ok. Then I rewrite it again. The storyline stays the same, but I abbreviate and change all the time. Funny thing though I'm not sure whether I'm improving it or destroying it. I don't think in my case it really matters, as I shan't ever be published, except in my heart. AJ :>)

Hello, Ivory & Fey, Like other abc's I spend hours editing, checking grammar, syntax, pace etc. I'm wondering if you have your work copy edited or proofread before you submit for publication, or do you rely on your own skills? cheers tz

I agree with Ivy too ... sometimes you can just edit it too much - sometimes the writer just gets sick of looking at their own creation. There's something to be said for writing a piece, then putting it away for a couple of weeks, then going back to it.