So Now Ralph Dartford Accuses Me of Plagiarism
Fri, 2002-08-30 13:05
#1
So Now Ralph Dartford Accuses Me of Plagiarism
Sorry this is dragging on guys, but I really have to defend myself on this issue as it's quite serious for a writer to be accused of such things. If you're bored with the whole thing, please read no further - skip to Stephen D's excellent "Best seller waiting to happen" thread.
I've chosen this arena to defend myself as opposed to the "Writing from ABCtales" forum because I can see how this might come across as some form of self-promotion, and I apologise in advance if it's viewed as such.
I can ignore most of Ralph Dartford's recent dribblings - even the part about ABCtales staff and management finding his Jon Gaunt attacks on me amusing - but accusations of plagiarism are quite serious.
I got the idea for my "Colours" poetry from listening to the Danny Baker show. This is true. I spoke about this to Ralph at the last ABCtales event. But there's nothing wrong in that. We all need inspiration for our work.
From time to time, Danny plays what he terms Jazz Poetry (or Jazzoetry), which is a guy with a very deep, Barry White, voice reciting poems on colour. It's pretty off-the-wall stuff but can be quite amusing.
I listened to this and thought, "I can do better than that," and went home to write out a long list of weird and wonderful colours. I then chose one and started seeing if I could take the piss out of it. Honestly, that was my initial motivation. I was testing myself to see if I could write absolute crap and get away with it. And this is how the first couple of poems went.
However, the poetry then started to take over. I was really enjoying it. I couldn't wait to choose a new colour and to see where it took me. I still get a great deal of enjoyment out of these, although I must admit that sometimes it just doesn't work. Sometimes I just get stuck. But that's writing, yeah? I tried writing a colours poem entitled "River" but got absolutely nowhere with it. If someone else fancies having a go at it, please feel free to take the idea and own it.
Danny Baker's Jazz Poetry section was the inspiration for my "Colours" poems. That's it.
Pick up a dictionary, Ralph, and look up the word plagiarism.
Henstoat
Mann,
Get this straight. I take any objection on your part to be positive encouragement. That's how much respect *you've* earnt yourself. So if you harbour any desire for me to cease my wittering, you'd do well to shut the f.uck up yourself, you boring piece of flabby monkey ass with nits.
------
Complaints to: elsewhere
Henstoat
Outburst successful. Internal temperament returning to normal.
the Sugar Hill Gang
*pours a forty on the kerb for dying websites*
dorothy
i love all the name calling in this playground war, don't you? i used to think ralph was the king of the insult but "you boring piece of flabby monkey ass with nits." is rather special i feel.
.
dorothy
oh, just for clarity, i wasn't agreeing with the insult as i find terri's rare forum comments quite astute, unlike many other postees who wouldn't know there monkey's flabby ass from their boney little elbows, red raw from sitting at a computer all day.
oh, and that is not directed at you either henstoat, before you mount your high horse with the aid of your soap box.
.
Mykle
It's all getting a bit boring now that Karl and Ralph have stopped squabbling - no revelations or insight - just recriminations, repetitions and insults. At least you could attempt to be innovative if you must continue.
Henstoat
How about we get guns and maps to each other's houses?
Astute, Dorothy?? I've missed this - Terri Mann bugs me principally because the only comments of his/hers I've encountered are ones that attack other people. I'd like to see some non-ad hominem astuteness.
dorothy
well you could do but i already know where all of you live and i don't think i want to go there. ad hominem or not.
funky_seagull
Er Pete Stanley Kubrick is dead m8.
You could try going to a spiritualist medium; perhaps they might help you get in contact with him..
two_gents
I must say Karl Wiggins that you dont have to do much to upset some of the rectoral exhbitionists in this word.
Any way I like rocking the boat, something might fall out that I like. Mind you it hasn't happened yet for all my rocking.
Sooz
Sorry to butt in , my opinion hasn't been asked for either. But regardless of the fact that I class Karl as a friend, I want to just say that. A couple of months ago I was accused of plagiarism. I was ashamed and very hurt. It's a horrible thing to be accused of.
In my case the grounds were good, the story in question bore striking resemblence to a bloody American Urban Legend. Not only that but it even had the same title and the legend pre-dated my story by fifty years. All damning stuff. but I refused to remove my story from the site in question because I had written it from my imagination and hadn't stolen anything, it was just unfortunate for me that someone else had the idea first.
It upset me terribly because I'd never dream of stealing someone elses work .. so getting non-too swiftly to the point .... I sympathise with Karl. I haven't read his poetry so can't really coment but his explanation sounded perfectly reasonable to me.
Plagiarism is one hell of a dirty word ... I think it's a word that's too strong to be brandished about without a whole truckload of absolute proof.
After I was accused I was scared to even attempt writing for ages because I was constantly worrying that the idea had already been done, surely to be accused twice would be proof enough that I'm a fraud .. it was awful, I hate to think of anyone else going through that.
Keep writing Karl.
Sooz
Pete
I recently wrote to Stanley Kubrick about his obvious plagerism involving A Chocolate Orange'. Understanding that it was quite an old film, and had been rated a first class musical, with a musical number by Gene Kelly that has long been a firm favourite of mine, I bought my ticket and was dissapointed to find that, as musicals go, there is a severe dearth of singing within it. Fair enough, I thought, it was still an amusing, comedic portrayal of young people dressing up and having a good time. BUT THEN! Whilst browsing through the racks of Waterstones, I happened to see a novel by the same name, but whos author was called Anthony Furness. I was SHOCKED! Upon reading the back of the book I noted that the plot was almost the same as the film I had earlier seen. The film I saw was clearly labelled 'Stanley Kubrick's A Chocolate Orange. How could this be? I bought the book, full of righteous indignation, and spent the rest of the day reading, my gall rising as I realised that this charlatan-KUBRICK-had stolen the ideas of this novel, obviously intending to fill his pockets with the thoughts of another man. I sat up until the early hours of the morning,my pen furiously digging into the paper, several sheets having to be scrapped and begun again. That was two weeks ago. Have I heard from this plagerist? No. I expect he knows the game is up. Here is a man who would not take anymore. Here is...
Does anyone know of the whereabouts of Stanley Kubrick? If so, join me in my apocalyptic journey of fire!
andrea
Strewth.
And that's all I have to say on the matter...
Mykle
Riddled with guilt he faked his own death as is now living on the dark side of the moon with Elvis, Robert Maxwell and Princess Diana. There is a rumour that he's making a documentary about ménage-a-tois.
mississippi
He lives in Rickmansworth and changed his name.
Mykle
Perhaps he's finished the documentary then, Missi.
Ralph
Fair enough Karl, I concede on that point.
Now explain Jon Gaunt.
Cant wait.
Ralph
Ralph
You lied about Jon Gaunt. It does not get more serious than lying, or does your private moral code exclude you from that. From now on you will forever be known as 'Karl the liar'
Ralph
Stephen Gardiner
Dear children,
For the record, the staff and management of ABCtales at no time knew who Jon Gaunt was and to the best of my knowledge none expressed, publicly or privately, any approval or disapproval of his postings.
Stephen Gardiner.
The Bullshit Factor
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Oh no. Not the real John O@Gaunt
Author: Stephen Gardiner (---.blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: 07-02-02 23:07
On behalf of ABC and the formerly lunatic fringe of the radio industry I am pleased to welcome Gaunty to the threads.
Imagine my horror that a mid-morning jock on a major metropolitan station should be having such fun in the threads of the country's biggest and most exciting site for readers and writers (see Sword Maniac). (for frig's sake, Gardiner, get on with it. ed.)
Hey, big Jon, do you want to know how many London denizens are on our site between nine and noon?
Hox or Mississippi, The Wig, Phisch, you bastards, you're going to suggest that we get our ratings out on the table at the Moon Under Water and measure them. Shut it.
We at ABC like BBC London anyway because it often interviews Colonel Pip Pip in the newspaper slot on the Drivetime show so JG's a hot bitch vis-avis us.
It's just the thought of him running into an evangelical church service, start bollock naked and holding his sword in his hand shouting "Tell your children you love them" in a lame attempt to get more listeners.
Hang Strang? Ah, nang.
I remain yours etc.
Rosemary Clooney (ret.)
Stephen Gardiner
Dear Ralph,
Let me explain to those who, like yourself, can't see it, that the post you paste above was an attempt at ironic drollery. Clearly it fell on stony ground in your case.
It was written in response to about three fairly inoccuous posts by yourself posing as Gaunt in two threads on 3 July, one about the sword maniac and the other about the world's worst TV programme, Big Brother.
Gaunt had not, at that stage, turned to abusive trollery levelled at Karl.
I didn't know you were the person behind Gaunt until I saw you "coming out" on the threads about a week ago. Many told me who they thought it was, i.e. you, but none had proof that I saw so I chose to hold
This is a toy-throwing contest I do not want to get dragged into so apart from what you might consider the tendentious word "abusive" above, (and I don't - I think the word is justified) I will make no moral judgement on yours or anyone else's behaviour.
These are my views and are not meant represent the management of ABCtales.
Stephen Gardiner
jude
i don't know whats going on
Ralph
Fair enough poppit.
Again I concede.
Ralph
Henstoat
You've got to respect a man for conceding.
But Ralph - Karl may well be a liar, but so am I. I lie to people when I've stolen their keys, for starters. So don't hold that against him. Meanwhile, let us await the explanation. If you are right, as it appears at the moment, then surely all we can say is that you've both disgraced humanity - but that's fine, because humanity is so frequently a disgrace to itself, and we love disgrace really.
Terri Mann
Henstoat, will you please SHUT UP, the individuals in this row neither requested nor need your input, all you are doing is prolonging it, you are no more an arbitrator on this site than mississippi who has at least had the good sense to keep his nose out on this ocassion.
Mykle
I think I'm staring to get addicted - it must be the Jerry Springer effect. Well if he can get an opera in his name perhaps ABC can have a new forum dedicated to him. At least it would clear this forum for slightly more intellectual topics.
Pete
Well perhaps I could speak to this little known author, Anthony Furness, the. I mean, I've not heard of him or any of his works. He must need the royalties from this ,allegedly, dead Kubrick. If you are reading this, Mr Furness, please get in touch. You have been gravely wronged!
faithless
what the heck is all this kak?
i go off for a few months..when i return abctales has become some kind of sad-blokes-wittering-on-in-puerile-vague-hostility...i would swear that this was a particularly cruel episode of alan partridge...it pathetic and funny..but it's no way to live a life..sheesh..
see you in six months...
martin xxxx