To A Postle: I know the meaning of 'udder' but an uddertaker is something I couldn't and still cannot find what it means, it's not in my dictionary. Thank you
To 1legspider: "anyway if you think that 'nothing really matters' you are not too far away from 'everything matters' in my humble opinion" , have I said HERE that I think 'nothing really matters'?
To Liana: "We need to learn why cynics are cynical... " you made a very wise observation!!
1legspider, do you think that just because I said 'politicians are the same everywhere' I am cynic? or that anyone who claims the same thing is a cynic?
Well I'm reasonably certain it was a typo, it should obviously have been 'undertaker', but then you know that don't you?
I'm also reasonably certain that a lactating woman could be described, at least by an anthropologist, as 'a milkable animal'.
I thank yew.
correction *I am a cynic*
Liana, a play on words? now I get it *tsk tsk awful indeed*
thank you :)
Cynics and idealists are visionaries, sometimes their vision is scary as sometimes it reflects reality....
Nicoletta, I suspect that 1Leg was playing with the word 'undertaker' also known as Funeral Directors. 'Undertakers' under take to supply coffins and dispose of the dead.
As a form of humour it rarely works although Monty Python did a cracking sketch - which I think was called the Undertaker Sketch - where a man turns up with his mothers body in black plastic bin liner. Eventually the undertaker suggest that the man eat his mother, not raw, cooked and served with various vegetables. He points out that if the man feels guilty later he can always throw up into a bag and bury that.
The alternatives which include the body be eaten by worms or cremated (you can always pretend the ashes are hers) etc. are all equally uninviting and you do end up wondering if the Soylent Green approach might be the best way to go.
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I get your point llegspider
'Now, you see the above... it may be total bollocks, but I did make it up just now... more to the point, I am not afraid to say it and consequently be thought of as a fool today... and yet I reserve my right to change my mind and say something completely different tommorrow irregardless of a personal consequence. Now that is real anarchic thinking.'
I also reserve my right, in the manner expressed by yourself!
(excepting the 'facts' posted, which have to stand)
perhaps Liana, perhaps......nevertheless maybe they have realized that any truth is completely rootless unless it becomes an experience, a personal experience.... how many among us have understood what it's like to be an Iraqi woman or a homeless badly injured child? how many of us have counted the dead and injured and found their wives or husbands, their mothers or fathers among them?
Blimey this IS a long thread. We should start another one that will run and run... hmmm.. let me think...
"Is it ever acceptable to smack children?"
What do you think? Will it be a goer?
ho ho
yes and let's hope that the same people will start voting for different people, because the evils of war are closing in on our 'safety' and we won't be able to afford to be that orderly or that dependent to talk about any truth then,, we will only be able to experience, we are after all the undertakers of ourselves
I can’t agree that “any truth is completely rootless unless it becomes an experience, a personal experience..”
When you read a book, watch a movie or, better, have a meaningful conversation with someone you can take the truths that are offered and slot many of them into place amongst your own truths and experiences and they take root – just as you may sometimes reject truths because you have misunderstood them and they don’t seem to fit in to your paradigm.
Truth is a matter of experience, what you are describing is a vague (totally justifiable) feeling that there is truth in one's sayings, but it is your faith that won't reject the truths that you have not experienced and your intuition that will acknowledge them. You cannot say that 'I am aware of the truths of all the people in the world (past present or future)' even if you discuss them with God.
I spend much time mediating between teenagers doing horrible things to each other. Funny how teachers aren't allowed to touch the kids, but they are allowed to write all over each other, throw burning balls of paper across rooms, trap each other in doorways,...without recourse to court case. Believe me, it's happening every second of the day in Doncaster and Barnsley. A kid tried to cut my hair recently, sharp blades hovering behind my head,..not nice.
I've just ordered v.interesting sounding book on the matter called 'I'm a Teacher Get Me Out of Here.'
Recognising and reacting are two different things.
Bush talks to god every day - I think it's when he's shaving - and Blair probably talks to himself too. If you remember we started out agreeing that politicians are trained to disguise the truth whenever possible.
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'We need to learn why cynics are cynical... to maybe challenge their ideas as well as our own... maybe the very reasons for their cynicism is rooted in truth, maybe we can show them a different and perhaps more valid truth.
Dont contradict yourself... Keep an open mind.'
Are you open to the idea that in certain circumstances genocide is a fine and noble act????
Nicoletta! The thread had moved on... I was not accusing you of being anything, it is just my manner of speaking.
Cynicysm is a mindset we all have to battle with from time to time as apart from anything it does not lead anywhere... it is not an insightful frame of mind is the only point I was trying to make (I think) and certainly full-time (professional) cynics have no pearls of wisdom to offer anyone... if your reality stinks that badly, change it. If you think you do not have the resources to do so, be humble to learn off someone else... it most probably requires a leap of faith.
Separately:
I understand why people may be prepared to die to 'defend or share' what they think they have; Never understand why people would be prepared to die for what they think they don't have.
There are fates worse than death... and that is to lead a life blighted by the random violence of the thought police, where you cannot trust your father, brother, cousin, neigbour for fear of betrayal. For any thinking person it is a nightmarish world to live in, more so in the pain of seeing yourself as well as those you love being corrupted under the weight of this influence.
In one fell swoop, the removal of Saddam and the Baath party removed this for millions of Iraqis.... of course with new fround freedom comes a new responsibility and this has to be learnt.... Yet, despite all the difficulties (which they and not you or I have suffered), the polls show that a year later they prefer their lives now to then. Is that a real surprise?
Let them get on with it, and let us help them if we truly care. To carp on about this or that motive by Bush or Blair is an irrelevancy for the Iraqis... vote against them if you wish... I may do, as there are aspects of the handling of the war and aftermath that could have been done better. Irregardless of 'the motives' the war was right and justifiable and will remain so, and in the future will be judged so.
You seem to have the well behaved ones, Emma. The real trouble kids have been carrying guns for the last year or so - unless the police are offering a particularly good CD this week.
So the police are condoning bribery eh. It's amazing, I find an intense culture of 'what's in it for me' in schools. Get nothing, give nothing. And I don't mean any abstract concept of 'get', it's got to be material and expensive.
1legspider:
"Irregardless of 'the motives' the war was right and justifiable and will remain so, and in the future will be judged so."
In the future everybody will be judged so, but who will be able to tell to those who have been lost what was the best thing for them after all? To either ACTUALLY LIVE even in a country ruled by a dictator or to be ACTUALLY DEAD in a country that has been invaded by "democratic" leaders.
Well, brick walls and the banging of heads against said walls, is less appealling to some than others 'A Postle'... and some of the constructed arguments that whip out irrelevances like rather undernourished rabbits from tatty top hats, are best ignored...You may choose to see that as a withdrawal, and I, and I am sure Nicoletta, fully support your right to do so.
:-)
A Postle, I always skip replying when another person has cleverly answered to a stupid aphorism such as yours. If it pleases you to say to yourself that I have withdrawn, then once again your truth is questionable.
Bizarre. Thankyou.
I can't see why ruling things out is a weakness. Why prefering to live under one system rather than another is a weakness. Why preferring to live somewhere where freedom of expression is possible rather than where it clearly is not. I don't see that the election to power of Nick Griffin and the BNP to power would be just the same as Greens or Liberals or whoever to power because: 'they are all the same'.
1 leg. Don't agree about motivation. IMO motivation is everything.
The only valid truths are your truths... if you don't like them... act to change them, which in most parts means changing yourself first. The first step if you cannot see beyond your truths, is to accept that theoretically there may be others that you just cannot see. The second step to changing I am afraid is a Leap of Faith. The third step is the changing (learning) of itself. The only thing that can truly be said about Truths is just like everything around you, they are not static, they are created. By process of elimination you will be left with fewer and fewer bad Truths (those that you suspect are true but you wish they were not).
When to kill... sanction killing (as in supporting wars):
Kill only when your good truths are under threat... good as in the ones you like, never kill for the bad truths... the ones you don't like. And when you act, act with vigour and bravery and respect for your adversary if not for his truths.
Kevin.. I think that ruling ANYTHING out is terribly dangerous.. how can we ever understand, or alter peoples minds, or understand our own difficulties, if we refuse to consider others opinions? Understand that I am not saying that one must agree with others, or accept rights that we clearly understand as wrongs is beneficial...
And i do apologise for my earlier facetiousness... its been a fabulously long weekend, and I have learned much about myself.
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