1,500,000 in Philly !

Giving access to technology would be a complete waste of time for most Africans. I don't mean this to sound racist and I'm NOT a racist but, the IQ of the average African would be insufficient to use the technology. What the need is education, and LOTS of it for extended periods of time ie. many decades. In the meantime they should seek managerial, educational, business help from thoser that ARE qualified. Did I mention getting rid of the evil dictators that squander what wealth they DO have?

Oh Miss Peepee Miss Peepee. I did ever so gently point out that you may harbour, umm, racist attitudes, some time ago. But when anyone says 'I'm not a racist' I always wait for the 'but.' And then the racist statement pores forth. Your aside when I mentioned that my name on this site was Fatalky, was an attempt at 'black humor', you riposted with, Lenny Henry was an example of 'black humor.' No-Miss Pippi, Lenny Henry is a humorist who happens to be black. The Intelligence Quotient was thought up by a right wing git called Hans Eysenck. It is geared to white middle class kids. When I was in the 'dry house' some years ago, we had some very interesting people work there. One was a priest who told us this 'apocryphal' story, about two white men lost in the jungle, related to him by African tribesmen. In short: The men found themselves - lost - couldn't find their way out, and starved to death. The tribesmen said, 'How can these people be so stupid? they were surrounded by food.' This is just the reversal of 'my god they'll never be able to understand technology' theorum. I'll bet you a pound to a penny that if you take computers over there, the kids'll be showing their parents 'what for' in next to no time. There are percentage - wise as many thick people over there as anywhere else in the world. And as many bright etc etc.. I remember reading some years ago, a geophysicist who said that the only problem Africa had was one of geography. [%sig%]

I know a Liberian woman who was on death's door from HIV when she arrived in Tucson (her T cell count was very low); four children between the ages of eight and eighteen; could write her name and spell a few words; had a year or two of education whilst in the Toetown camp and in the camps at Abidjan. Her dream? To be an accountant. Now that she is safely in the States, with the proper medications freely available to her to keep her T-cell count up, you can damn well bet she'll become an accountant. When I left the States she was just about to enter the GED-level English class (e.g. graduate from high school). Don't tell me about the 'average IQ of an African', Missi, and deny you're a racist! Education and IQ have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Thomas Edison finished second grade. Einstein finished, what, sixth grade? Give them the technology (AND access to education), and they'll blow our butts out of the sky, given time and the opportunity. Sheesh. And of course you're right about the dictators, but I don't think Sir Geldof will be advocating assassinations any time soon...

And IQ and education have fuck all to do with racism. My family have between them spent over forty years in Africa (Nigeria, Zimbabwe and South AFrica.) I prefer to believe their first hand accounts of what life is like there, and it's population, than self-righteous arm-chair anthropologists. The political correctness brigade that forbid any sensible assessment of a third world country on the basis that it's 'racist' would be comical if they weren't so sad. Tell your priest that a rat can live in a sewer, but that doesn't make it intelligent. >> ...they'll blow our butts out of the sky, given time... << Well I very much doubt it, but I DID say that time is what they would need as a starter.

Hmm, yes, and my father-in-law served in India and Burma during WWII, and he still insists that Indians are not only lazy, but worthless and stupid. India is rapidly taking the Western countries over in terms of technology. Are the Indians lazy and stupid? Not as far as I can see... So, whoop-de-doo that your family members lived in Africa; that doesn't mean they can't be bigots. There was once something called, let me see, oh yes, APARTHEID, which was perpetuated by white men who believed well and truly that Africans have low IQs. I think Nelson Mandela, for one, would disagree... I can't believe I even have to argue about this. I make some egregiously silly statements sometimes, but this 'low IQ Africans' idea of yours really takes the cake. It's not about being politically correct; I am a lifelong enemy of PC. It's about seeing what 'is'.

****** ******** gak habit could feed a small african nation for a decade by the looks of it. Madonna was very good, but she plugged a bit too much for comfort. UB40 - I've heard better renditions of red red wine coming out of the working mens club in skeg on karaoke night. That film still makes me cry.

That bit of film is just about the only thing I can't watch, it makes me want to throw up.

Peter Kaye gets the best comedy award in this house. For me the stars of the day just HAVE to be Pink Floyd. They were absolutely BRILLIANT !

I thought UB40 were great. I guess some people have no taste.

Ali campbell looks like he ate the entire rice ration for the last decade. And he cant sing. Pink floyd were amazing.

Pink floyd were fantastic!!!!!!! UB40 should retire.

you've still got shit taste

You should know

I think the girls scored over the guys all day long, until the Floyd that is. Annie Lennox - a star as ever. Joss Stone - how can such a young girl have such a mature voice and style? Madonna - As professional as they get. The guys? REM - Bloody great. Robbie Williams - maybe the best entertainer there. Pink Floyd - There just HAS to be a reunion tour! UB40? Sorry Tim, they should be still using 'em. Revelation of the day, at least for me? Maria Carey's legs AIN'T 6' long and slim ! She has in fact, quite chubby short legs that as a friend pointed out, appear to be devoid of ankles! OK, she has a great voice, but I don't care for what she does with it. Not wishing to sound like a boring old fart, but most probably doing so, all the old performers beat the crap out of most of the younger generation. Just a personal opinion of course.

of course UB40 were shit, i'm not deaf. you guys.

Aw c'mon Tim, don't take on so. I don't think they were shit, I just never liked 'em. Now Ali Campbell's father I knew back in the 60's when he led the Ian Campbell Folk Group, which included his sister Lorna, a big-busted woman I seem to recollect, with an operatic voice. Didn't care much for the voice but... Anyway the father was a bloody good singer of folk songs.

McCartney - about four songs too many, well past his sell by date, never been a great singer Robbie Williams - up his own backside as usual Madonna - mostly out of tune, I made the mistake of watching her with the sound turned on Pink Floyd - wrist-slittingly boring, should never have reformed and blown the myth Bob Geldof - you have got to be joking REM - depressing and boring Keane - depressing The Who - should have fucking quit while they were ahead (about 20 years ago) U2 - never understood their appeal, mediocre performance Mariah Carey - self indulgent Sting - better than expected Joss stone - amazingly mature Annie Lennox - never been a fan but best voice of the day.

Brilliant. The Killers - fantastic, but shame it was only one song. I've got the album but why did nobody ever tell me the lead singer was so cute. Rzaorlight - never heard of them before but great too. Madonna - great performance. As Liana said, didn't like her interview very much. She's not humble is she. 'I might go to Africa if I could effect real change.' When asked how this compared to the original Live Aid which kicked off her career in this country. 'DID IT????' Pink Floyd - awesome. Robbie Williams - the greatest entertainer. I enjoyed the whole thing.

In which case open your blind eyes.

'No one in particular', it was a bit of a waste of time for you then? Perhaps you should have left your TV switched off and listened to your Max Bygraves records instead.

Why didn't somebody tell Drew that the lead singer of The killers looked like a boyfriend who looked like a girlfriend...

I watched it because I thought it was a good cause/historic occasion but that doesn't mean I have to fucking enjoy it, or swallow the hype. You can say what you like about Madonna but for much of the time she wasn't singing in tune.

lol It must be SO hard to be a martyr. Perhaps it was your ears that were out of tune? Nobody else has remarked on it, and trolls are infamous for being off-key. I didn't swallow anything personally, I judged each performer as a performer. I'm not one of those that think 200,000 people turned out because they think Africa needed their petronage. Most went to see their idols and be a part of the biggest musical event in history. I actually believe that G8 will not change much, THAT would require the UN to stand up and be counted.

you can say what you like because you're too chicken shit to use your real name on here when you're slagging off what was a major success in terms of both entertainment and awareness. (which you're fully entitled to do- just have the gusset furniture to do it as yourself) I felt that each performance was better than expected and I had some high expectations. Elton, for example was giving it plenty, something I haven't seen him do on stage for a long time. (although Pete Doherty just needs a good kicking and leaving in a field somewhere for the crows) Mcartney- I was never a fan but his voice was still very beatley and he also rocked. Bob Geldoff- why the hell not????? his song was apt, his voice is no worse really than when it was first recorded and he did a fine job, also pausing at the "how to die" and raising his fist was great, it galvanised the crowd and made his point beautifully. Maddonna, again never a fan but the performance was excellent and those breakdancers were amazing, she knows how to do her job and she did it well. Robbie- the muts nuts as usual say no more Floyd- incredible, started falteringly but soon got into the swing of things same goes for the Who even UB40- I mean come on... they were alright... weren't they? They did a medley with no gaps in between so that's something to say Stereophonics- brilliant!!!!! came out rockiong and put a fire under the arse of the crowd even though U2 and coldplay had alreafdy been on and been great.

I missed most of the telly programme as I was at a barbecue, but I have to say I was a little horrified (and amused) at Madonna's surplus-to-requirement use of the EFF word; I mean, we had a radio playing the gig in the garden, and I was put off with her language; there were children listening, after all. And it wasn't a necessary word. I'm still a fan of her music, but, after years of yoga and Kabbala and macrobiotic diets, she's still almost naively arrogant and self-centred. She gets lower and lower on the list of 'people I'd like to meet'. Glad I missed her interview. The Killers were awesome; I agree with Drew, that singer's a dish! But the top of the night for me was Pink Floyd. I made it home to watch them; they were well worth sitting through the painful 'Velvet Revolver' gig. (Actually, we flipped over to watch The History of Britain while they played...). Pink Floyd are (IMO) indisputably still one of the best bands ever; their music is timeless and as intelligent today as it was 30 years ago. It was a joy seeing the pleasure on their faces as they performed together for the first time in a quarter century. Robbie Williams puts on a good show, but he also appears to be a candidate for my 'Tit' list. Anyone who is best friends with Essex Boy Becks has to be a tit. Hmm. Other than that, most of the performances were okay; not great. Mariah Carey is, despite having a nervous breakdown, still a self-consciously smug little diva. Apparently the breakdown didn't give her any more self-awareness (in a positive sense). She -is- a good singer though... U2 were good, as always. They've aged well, both physically and musically. Macca is probably at the top of my 'Tit' list, however. He just doesn't improve any with age. I suppose he doesn't give a shit, anyway. He was a Beatle. He can coast all the way through the Pearly Gates on that gravitas. The thing for Sir Bob to do now is ensure that the pressure remains steady and unremitting on the world leaders. They'll do it lip service, and then it'll go away. The rest of the world has to keep the issue at the top of the agenda, or it'll get nowhere.

No one in particular - seeing as you said on the other thread that you "wouldnt want a ticket to live 8 even if you paid me", I'm a little lost as to why you bothered watching it on tv either. I'm glad you found sting better than expected though, at least all those hours weren't wasted. Then again...

Exactly Flash. I've been relistening to my killers cd today. My favourite song, 'Drew, you're a star.'

Arrogance is so unbecoming in ageing men.

Spent most of yesterday downloading Beethoven symphonies from Radio 3, thereby avoiding Her Madgeness and the early part of Live 8. It's estimated that the stars of Hyde Park will see a 500% rise in the sale of their back catalogues. Now why a few African musicians couldn't haves been included, instead of being hidden away on the Eden stage, is beyond me and seems to be restrictive and very unfair trade indeed. Tuned in, though, for The Floyd, who, it must be said, were over and above awesome. (Mad Mick, Come-to-Piddle's odd job man, sold his Live 8 ticket to a corporate type who happened to wander into the snug of The Saracen's Head for £400. The money was put to good use: Mick's electricity supply was re-connected after being cut-off last winter for non-payment. Chin up, Lord Bob, saviour of the poor!)

Liana I didnae want a ticket because I didnae want to be trapped in a crowd of 200,000 listening to mostly duff acts, but that Joss Stone was a bonnie wee lassie and no mishtake.

I watched pretty much the whole thing as I had bugger all else to do and was suitably impressed - especially by Pink Floyd as I'm not that big a fan and thought that they were amazing live. I can't stand Robbie Williams but have to admit he got the crowd going more than anyone else - I still don't get The Who or why they're so big, I can't say their performace changed my mind either. No one has mentioned yet my personal favourite moment - Richard Ashcroft, absolute Wigan legend!

Bob Roberts 'It seems restrictive and unfair trade' Yooz a genius Bob. That's the main reason that Africa's still in the mire. Let them trade on a level playing field, without all the CAP subsidised food that we're sending them. Yes there are corrupt politicians over there, but they don't have a monopoly. 'Yes I firmly believe that Maddas can blow us out of the water in 15 minutes flat' Who said that? What if the pop stars got together and donated 10% of there profits to particular areas, and had a hands on approach; (much like Roger Federer and the organisation he's set up in South Africa) they could actually see what was being built, see where their money is going. Yes I know 'altruism does not exist.' Yes it would make said pop star feel wonderful about themselves, but the people having clean water, new schools built, teachers being payed for - come on even computers - that would make the recipients feel even better. And no, the problems can't be eradicated from top down, the real solution must come from Africa and the Africans. But for Christ sake - let's give 'em a leg up. After all, we owe them. And if Bob Geldof's done nothing else, he's got us all talking about it. Fair play Bob. [%sig%]

I have a growing respect for Angelina Jolie because of this. She seems willing to actually go and get her hands dirty (and dig into her considerably deep pockets). Not bad for a glamourpuss. It (personally speaking) beggared belief that David 'Let's throw a 150k baptism party for pitifully-named son Number Two' Beckham had the gall to get up on stage and tell everyone what a wonderful and important event Live 8 was. I mean, this is a guy who had his n hers thrones for his wedding to that talentless ho', for the love of Jesus. Has he dug into his OWN pockets, in any meaningful way? Will HE go to Africa to dig pit latrines at Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya? I f***ing doubt it. I think many stars like the 'altruism by proxy'-type altruism. Get 'em on tee-vee to make a statement? Sure. Ask 'em to do some actual work? Not a chance.

The money's just relative, AG. 150k to Beckham is like you or I splashing out 15 quid. Those people have lived with fame and fortune so long 'their' way seems normal, which it IS for them. He won't be digging any shit-pits but then neither will you or I. Sadly the real problem in Africa is one of evolution. Most of Africa is a 1000years behind western civilisation. You can't change that in less than a 1000years, at least not at the pace they're moving at the moment. In truth, they should never have thrown the westerners out of Africa, just removed their powers but asked them to stay and run their businesses until the 'locals' were up to the job.

And not all white men that live in Africa are bigots. Simplistic thinking is so sad in an aging women.

Or a woman even.

Simplicity is yours, my deah: I never said 'all white men that live in Africa are bigots'. I said, just because they've lived in Africa doesn't mean they can't be bigots. There is space in there for deviation. Illiteracy and a lack of subtlety is most disappointing in men of a certain age...

Well it's pointless pursuing this childish exchange further, though I doubt there's much you could teach me.

Fatalky - I chose those words with care. I'd have thought it only right and proper - given the pre-event rhetoric - that African musicians be allowed to share in a 500% back catalogue bonanza! Instead the estimated 5 billion viewers who tuned in were treated to the likes of Kate Moss' boyfriend making a complete prat of himself - proof (if it were needed) that the record companies saw the event as a grand marketing opportunity and nothing else. And as for your 10% idea...the combined wealth of the first six acts alone is enough to cancel Africa's debt! (The Floyd were bloody brilliant, though...Have I said that ?)

Aw, I was just getting warmed up, O Great River Man.

Love is in the air, most def.

.

You know what Bob? I said that exact phrase to someone in a private email last night.

Actually, Missi, I _will_ be digging shit pits in Africa. I can't do it yet because my kids are 3 and 7 and the husband refuses to go anywhere near Africa. But when the kids are older, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be doing more than just spouting about it. That's the whole reason why I studied anthropology and public health.

But I agree at least in part with the 'money is relative' idea; but some people with money actually do something with it besides buy bling bling. Jolie is a case in point. As for evolution, well, the Industrial Revolution started here in the UK in, what, 1750, and by 1850 the entire structure of the nation had changed radically, including its territorial might. Technology shapes culture; culture shapes technology. For Africans, it's not a question of slow evolution; it's a question of being allowed access to the technology that will jump-start change. Removing the debt will free up some of their GNP for infrastructure, which is a good start.

Archergirl- do you actually know me? It's just that I mentioned the phrase 'spouting' in the very same private email last night? Or is it just coincidence?

Um, as I have no idea what email you're talking about, it must be coincidence. There are a lot of them in life....

Yes, I'd dig shit-pits in Africa if I would fly. But I don't or can't. Fly. I would have to be totally drugged and carried on the plane. I would have a heart attack. And heart problems don't run in my family. But yes, help my fellow man? Of course. But I'd be doing it not out of a sense of altruism, because that doesn't exist. It would be to make me feel better. But I'd think - what the hey! - at least they're getting decent sanitation. And with my carpentry/building skills??????? God I'd end up feeling that I was Jesus. P.S. And this is my little sex/love-addict persona talking here: I might meet a woman who doesn't mind this corporeal, booze addled waster I've become. [%sig%]

fatalky: you could always transform into the altruistic, carpentry-skilled love hound you want to be. Stranger things have happened at sea... And you can take boats to Africa, ya know. Just drive down to the end of Spain and hop a freighter. God, that sounds -fun-. Maybe I'll do that, too! See ya at the port....