Serious Discussions Available

Well I think...... hold on this isn't a good idea now is it?

Liana - so you are Liana, and nobody but Liana and all that suspicion was just hogwash then ... well, my humble apologies. I do wish I'd been on the site before you took your stuff down - yes, I'd like to see what you write. Please e-mail me and let me know where you post. Yes, I do remember the long line of bitching - 'twas when I first joined - I think it was the first thread I read - I was horrified! What can I say - now I find I'm doing the same thing - I'm really glad to see that a lot of people are starting to use this section of the forums for talking about the actual work that's posted. Well, I'm hanging in here, even though I bitched away that I wasn't - so I'll still be posting my stuff - still be entering on the forum under my own name and my cat's. Thanks for responding .. I feel better now. Can I share something? Do you know that some of my best e-pals are people I originally had words with ... LOL! Isn't that odd?

Oh, and Liana - I forgot to say this - you said your daughter posted here a couple of times - my daughter just registered too.

Hey Sooz ... yeah - I agree with that - I think we should have a system here where people can say why they have down-rated something But you know what - I thought this was it? Stupid of me, but this section of the forums says DISCUSS STORIES FROM ABC TALES - or something like that ... so I assumed that this was where we'd do it. The last few days there is more discussion about the actual work - I like that. Nope - I'm not taking my work off - I did take my story about the bag lady off though - I don't want that up too long - I might take Scent of Almonds off too - I think those stories are coming close to being published. So, they really shouldn't be here. The ratings I'm getting on my poems aren't too bad. Thanks for your input on this thread. Carly :-)

My God, this thread is degenerating into a serious discussion. The 1-10 rating system is much better. 1-5 in my view means that it left me a bit cold at 3, quite good at 4 and very good at 5. That doesn't give a lot of differentiation. And like everyone else, I think that some actual constructive criticism is of more use than a mark or even (dare I say it) the bloody cherry. However, whether posting that detailed criticism on a thread for all to read is the right way forward, I'm not sure of. I took the view when I registered this site that by making my email address available, I was inviting people to contact me if they wanted to.

Good point Andrew.

Whilst reflecting on the fact that Fernado Pessoa, the Portuguese poet, had nineteen different personalities, I lamented that I could only count three personalities on the ABC site, one of them being my esteemed self. With a heavy heart, I opened another box of Havanas and poured a generous measure of Adelstrop Port.

Chooses to spell 'Fernando' without an 'n' for personal reasons.

stop it ....... it hurts. I strained something or other near my ribs yesterday (dont ask why) and am not allowed to laugh. Everywhere I go ... there you are. *developing a complex*

Fey - why would you be nervous - you are Cake of the Week ? I certainly wouldn't advocate sending someone a broadside by email. I have emailed some people to say what piece of their work I particularly enjoyed and more importantly why, and I probably would email an author if I'd read a story that had a lot of potential that with a minor amendment could be improved. The Ivoryfishwife did this for me recently and she was right. As Pirandello said, There is not a sentence in the world that cannot be improved by rewriting. I haven't read any of your stuff yet *blushes, looks at shoes* but this is because I am trying to read ten random stories a night. (Though all I seem to get is poems, which are not really my thing, sadly)

Mr Andrew Pack Good sir, it is obvious that the upstart Pirandello has not read my Seventeen collections of Poetry. Had he done so he would most certainly have retracted that remark avec vitesse. As proof positive of his faux pas, I offer my latest sonorous ode for your delictation. It is for a nymph of this site who can often be glimpsed partaking of triple-decker Stotty Cakes at Ta Chucks. Poem With Lots Of 'o's In It thumbs-down on the dodo’s mode, fishbone. thumbs-down on the dodo’s mode, fishbone. thumbs-down on the dodo’s mode, fol-de-rol along this road. thumbs-down on the dodo’s mode, fishbone. OK, so one of my former students, dear sweet Sylvia, assisted me, but it will benefit her career more than my own.

I've been offered an 'assessment' since becoming a member of this site ..............wonder why??! Andrew, Pirandello knew what he was talking about *says whilst hiding own insecurity under mountain of scripts in garden shed!* Broadside e-mails.........no ta, I need positive strokes please.

Andrew all my stuff on here's supposed to be poetry so you'd better give it a miss. I liked your ambitious mirror (can only read one at a time or my eyes go squiffy) Did you read that stuff yesterday about dolphins having a sense of identity of self just because they look at themselves in mirrors, which is something it was previously thought only humans, chimps and gorillas do? Makes it sound like the main criterion for being a higher life forms is vanity. sort of change of subject did anyone read that suff about creativity and wit in men being the result of female selection?

That's a shame, because you have a cool name Fey. My cats know that it is just a mirror, they were only fooled for about ten minutes. I think the test is that they are self-aware, that's supposed to be a mark of consciousness. And don't get me started on genetics - pet subject. Suggest Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, very readable and communicates the key ideas. Essentially, because females have to put in the larger investment into offspring, there are two different selection processes, the He-Man, where the female selects a very good alpha male for his genes, fully aware that when sex is over he will do a runner, or Steady, where the female selects a weaker male, but one that will help with the child and therefore increase the chance of the child surviving. So it's true, all the good ones are bastards !

Dolphins first: About an article about an article in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Although parrots and elephants can be trained to use mirrors to solve problems it had been thought only chimpanzees and urangutangs can RECOGNISE THEMSELVES in reflective surfaces. Two bottlenosed dolphins in captivity had patterns drawn on their backs. when mirrors were put on one side of their tank they were seen to be looking at the patterns in the reflections, swimming past and looking back to check. When the mirrors were moved to the otherside of the tank they moved to that side. "Collectively these findings... offer the first convincing evidence that a non primate species...is capable of self recognition" It has been argued thatself awareness indicates an ability to understand another's viewpoint. If dolphins possess this "theory of mind" it raises ethical questions about keeping them in captivity for our own amusement (and getting them all worked up about squiggles on their backs) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Now Men Extracts from The Mating Mind by Geoffrey Miller (Vintage, rrp £8.99) "Human language has evolved to be much more elaborate than necessary for basic survival. Art and music seem like pointless wastes of energy...humour is irrelevant to the business of finding food and avoiding predators. Moreover if...creativity were so useful, it's puzzling that other apes did not evolve" similarly Peacocks have tails, men are funny "The human mind's most impressive abilities are like the peacock's tail : they are courtship tools, evolved to attract and entertain sexual partners" "Over many generations those with quicker wits and more generous spirits may have attracted more sexual partners, or higher quality partners."(!) "The result was that wits became quicker and spirits more generous"(?)

Well, now we're having serious discussion - I like that ...

No, Fey, in no way an insult. I am too thick to get poetry, though I did look at a couple of your pieces yesterday and in my limited way I thought they were good. The name is brilliant. Peacocks is a very good case in point - male peacocks are deigned sexually attractive by females by the size of their tails, thus evolution drives the males onto longer and longer tails, to the point where the tail is actually a hindrance to the male. (The theory here is that if a male is strong enough to survive in spite of having such a ridiculously long tail, his genes must be worth having) And creativity for humans - surely the reason almost all bands are started are to give the members a chance of getting lucky?

Carly - I just posted a sort of response to this on Peculiarly English, but in retrospect it may have come across a bit harsh, problem with e-mail is you don't get the tone of people's voices. It is possible to have a serious discussion on this site, but equally it is possible to have a laugh and chat with people. I'm happy with both and wouldn't really want the balance to shift.

A laugh is good to have - I'm always up for one - but I don't find a lot of the 'laughs' here all that funny At any rate, what I'll do is remove pieces that have been downgraded - because there's no point in them being there - the idea of online content is to refer people to your work - I don't want to tell somebody to go see something then have them see that it's been rated as one - especially when it's been cherry picked As for feedback, I'll give feedback by e-mail from now on. I was on here last night and found about one out of ten of the so called 'laughs' funny. Thank you for replying. Carly :-)

Hello, everyone - If I could chip in with a few comments on the quote from Godfrey Miller in fey's posting above. "Humour is irrelevant?" Shome mishtake, surely? Humour is vital! Just watch a group of two or more people and you won't have long to wait before the laughter breaks out. The lerger the group, the shorter you'll have to wait. (Remember the old saying - the more the merrier?) Why? Because humour is an essential social lubricant (like alcohol, but less expensive) - it breaks down barriers and defuses tense situations. I'm sure the first cavemen laughed like drains when that sabre-toothed tiger pounced on the irritating smug git with the designer club in the next cave, right? Isn't most humour based on relief and - dare we admit it - cruelty? No matter how I try, I keep coming back to humorous writing: perhaps hearing someone laugh is the most obvious way of knowing that you've communicated! Several of my posted stories are supposed to be funny, though that's not to say that everyone would agree. An even higher proportion of my poems are, come to think of it. Oh, and those apes: "It's puzzling that they did not develop (creativity). It doesn't puzzle me, simply because I don't assume that apes, in line with all other living creatures, have stopped evolving. Give them time, and I'm soon we'll eventually all be reading the first cherry-picked chimp. Hang on, how do we know who's REALLY lurking behind those silly pseudonyms? I have my own ideas.. Anyway, folks - keep laughing.

Carly I am proud to live in a society where we respect everyone's opinions, even if they differ from ours and do not dismiss people who do not agree with us. You may well not find other's contributions funny, but that is no reason to prevent them from making those contributions. You are also fortunate to have had a certain amount of your work cherry-picked (as you never tire of telling us) but, just because one person rates your story highly, that does not mean that everyone has to. If you do plan to make a living as an author them I fear you will have to come to terms with criticism as well as praise. Good luck! Mayonaise (who chooses to spell her name with only 1 n for personal reasons!)

Whoops! "Lerger group?" It's true, I DO need glasses. Or maybe I should lay off the lunchtime drinking.

i concur - there are some things i have seen here which are bloody awful but still get cherry picked. ive had stuff of mine given one star before, but i leave the things there just in case someone has been wrong, which is borne out by the other ratings. so don't be too hasty in removing stuff from the site on that absis.

I learned pretty quickly to take the ratings with a pinch of salt - a lot of my stuff received low ratings when it first went up. I was toying with the idea of removing all non-cherry-picked and low-rated stuff but decided to leave everything. Many of the low ratings have been diluted with time, I am glad to say. (I wonder what the reason for the seemingly instantaneous low ratings was?) Although it is nice to be cherry-picked because one knows one will be read, what has given me the most pleasure has been the supportive commentary by fellow writers in the discussion forum. (The amusing constructive criticism on the haircut part of Trip to S. Africa was well taken!) I do agree with mayonaise that one needs a thick skin. Perseverance is obviously required for success in any field. Success is the step beyond failure. Etc. etc...

Are you referring to Naval Ratings, Eric? If so, are Low Ratings altitudinously challenged (and I use the word advisedly) Seamen? Was it the practice of 'taking Ratings with a pinch of salt' that lead to the term 'Salty Old Sea Dog?' You're very Nautical, but nice.

Oh, well then - you've convinced me - I'll continue to contribute - and oh yes - I'll conform to your ways How about I go in and rate you guys right now?

Yes, Liana - or whatever you're calling yourself today - I think you're right - and I'm going to do that - if I see something that I think is crap, I'm giving it one star. My previous practice of giving it no rating at all, just to be polite, was a disgusting, filthy habit - I'm changing my way - who do I think I am, trying to be polite?

Liana, if you'll be kind enough to let me know what name you are posting your stories under, I'll be more than glad to review them - I see one person named 'Liana' on my search and there are no stories there .... problems?

Carly, my sweet If I posted my work here, you would be able to see it :o) If you followed the "Do I have the right" thread (which l believe you started) you would have been able to see my work, before l removed it from the site for various reasons. I'm not going to rehash that little lot all over again. (see Missis whining bitch thread also) HEY!! But I had a TON OF CHERRIES!!!! Can I say that again?? Just in case no one knows? Howecer, should you wish to see my work, feel free to email me, and I'll certainly point you to a place where it is available for perusal. (yes, the email address next to my name is a working link) As for the ratings point - if we dont have 4 or 5 stars against a piece - shouldn't that tell us something? I re-iterate, that I'm sure that people are hopefullynot so petty as to downgrade items because they take exception to a particular contributor - ahh - but perhaps I just have a kind heart. And I rather take exception to "whatever name you're posting under today" -I don't post under any other name. Liana it is :o) There were two contributions from my daughter once on a thread, but I thought it was pretty clear it wasn't me? Ho hum.. Regards Liana

I'm a bit concerned about this downgrading stuff. Maybe the staff could change the voting system from five to ten. I'm probably going to be shouted down here. But in all honesty I would rather have a story of mine being given a one than not being voted on at all. I hate to see that a story has been read X amount of times and then not voted on. I may be in the minority but I WANT to know if my stuff is good or not. Obviously not everyone is going to like what I've written. For the same story one person might give it a five and somene else might only rate it as a one. It's all subjective and down to personal taste surely. I would truly, truly hate to think that I'd hurt anyones feelings. I know our writing is like our children and very precious and that critisism can be hurtful. Not every piece posted can be up there with a solid five. I wouldn't dream of saying anybody's work was terrible, just that I like some work better than other pieces. How can something be rated a five out of five if there is nothing rated at a one out of five to balance it? I think people are taking this far too personally. Face it folks not everything you write is 'perfect' If you get a lower grade than you would like, look at your work and see where it can be improved. If you don't want to have some of your pieces voted with a lower grade than others then take yourself off the voting option. I've had one out of five several times, and it makes the Five out of five so much sweeter when you get one. I don't take it as a personal insult at all if I only get a one, I just see it that that piece of writing could be a whole lot better. It does seem rather as though some people are saying please vote for me, but only if you think its wonderful.

I think that's an excellent idea .. go on rate away. that's what the site is here for and the name of the game. I think to take your toys out of the sandbox, just because someone thought your skipping rope was a bit shabby is a little on the silly side. I for one look forward to reading your work.

I agree with you Carly if you think something is crap you should give it one star. I just wish there was a review option and then people serious about bettering themselves as writers could find out WHY you think its crap. As long as people don't engage in childish tit for tat then one person's opinion is every bit as valid as the next persons, so long as its honest and fair. I don't think anything is crap, everything has been worked on and thought about.. I just like some things better than others. Just as I prefer trifle to tripe or diet coke to cough medicine.

Hi Sooz I think the idea of constructive crits is a fine one...maybe ABC could think about hosting a workshop or similar at some point? Also a top idea, is a 1 - 10 ratings system regards Liana