Yorkshire Blork,
You attempt to keep your identity secret but expect me to divulge private information regarding my finances. Business dealings, especially those regarding finances, between myself and PABD are of a strictly private nature and will remain between the two parties.
I will happily speak to anyone regarding the ethics of PABD as a company and my experiences in dealing with them if anybody wishes to e-mail me privately. Suffice to say that I recommend them highly.
Ralph,
Thanks for the observation. I added the word "amateurishly" as an afterthought for the simple reason that certain parties may take the phrase "model myself on" to mean "compare myself with." In retrospect perhaps I shouldn't have included the word "amateurishly."
And even if I say it myself, the book is actually a bloody good read!
Gorrrrrdon Bennet this has got your goat...so it WAS on the site, and - let me get this straight, cause it sounds scandalous - he took it off, and then it was nominated, then (here's the zinger) it wasn't on ANYMORE so they tried contacting him...and he said YES...
...the scumbag...
...the bastards...
...apparently people get awards for TV programmes that are not actually being aired whilst the ceremony on...too...it's a disgrace!
I bet it is a read Karl. I shall buy.
George, I hope that you were not reffering to me in your last post. Bury it please.
Thanks for buying the ticket but the way. You were the first and have got the ball rolling.
Ralph
I hope you weren't referring to me Martin, you see I'm getting a bit sensitive of late.
Where the boy is concerned, he seems to be rowing with everyone of late, I just knew it was a mistake giving him a big stick on the other site, he just isn't mature enough to cope with it.
Perhaps Paul is simply being mischevious and Karl deliberately coy ... the rough cost is there on the site:
It is free but you have to buy 10 books at 'author price' - £65 ish plus a payment for an ISBN number if you want one.
And that's it. They recommend a selling price but it is up to the author to set the price. The author keeps the difference between the selling price and the 'author price' and has to market the book themselves.
Doesn't seem too bad. Not much outlay and minimum risk.
My only concern with all these sites is the cost to the punter. I don't buy hardbacks (too expensive and it hurts when the book falls on your face as you fall asleep) and I'll often buy a paperback at a hugely reduced price in a supermarket long after everyone else has read it. So what that I've a pile of books on my bedroom floor that everyone else read two years ago. Stories last and I don't have an innate need to be amongst the first to discuss a new book. That is for the dinner party set.
Karl's price is £8.99 - quite reasonable when compared to other POD sites who often ask as much as £12 for a book - but considering that paperbacks generally cost between (list price) £4.99 and £7.99 (and you can get them cheaper) it is a big ask of joe public to pay top whack for someone they have not heard of.
Anyway, that was my whinge about POD and not aimed at Karl.
Good luck with it!
'it is a big ask of joe public to pay top whack for someone they have not heard of'
Oh, cobblers. Since the collapse of the net book agreement, it's the twatty public that are pricing good authors out of the market. By going exclusively for low-cost over quality, we're veering ever-closer to a scenario where all that's left are crappy celeb biogs and ghostwritten John Grisham thrillers. Ack.
Stormy, stormy, stormy... supermarket books aren't ones that 'everyone read two years ago'. They're a miniscule and usually crap slice of what's sold the most. If you're hard-up (or just tight), join a library for God's sake. Don't feed the scummy money-grubbing supermarkets just to save yourself a few pence.
"too intelligent for you brown nose?? lmao"
You? Intelligent? I guess that's what you're laughing your ass off about. The very idea, eh?
Now shut up. You have nothing of any worth to add to anything.
Sorry... just reread my post and it sounds a tad vitriolic. No offense intended, stormy. Though when my ill-conceived debut novel gets consigned to the 99p bargain bin in ASDA, I might change my tune.
I think you miss my point rokkit. Perhaps I should have said 'Amazon' instead of supermarket. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the 'twattish public' have priced good authours out of the market. Hence my claim that since good or well known authors can be bought cheaply, what chance is there for the aspiring Wiggins and his ilk (or me?)
FYI: Books I have read this last year do not include celeb biogs or any of Grisham. I have read Douglas Copeland, Daniel Mason, Annie Proulx, Michael Moore, Dave Gorman and his mate (light relief) Pete McCarthy and Franzen (finally got round to the corrections)
I have thrown Zadie Smith at my wardrobe several times and have started Gould's Book of Fish twice but not got beyond the third chapter.
Waiting in the wings are Mark Haddon, Michael Sanders and numerous others that my wife has read.
None of the above have cost me us much as a POD book. But all of the above have been reviewed in the broadsheets and/or are highly recommended in the 'discuss writing from elsewhere forum'
It isn't a question of me being hard-up or of my tightfistedness (although ... heh). I was trying to demonstrate how the populace at large perceive these things and ...
... oh never mind.
no it's not you mississippi. it's just... the ambience of this place hasn't changed one iota. not a jot. it's like being in a narky pub, you know that sooner or later it's going to kick off, so you can never really relax. you know?
Mississippi you are so obsessed with this UKA thing. Have you been hurt? I'm starting to think that maybe you are a bully too. I hve looked at your past posts, and I am wondering. I don't think you sre very nice.
I had to say this.
This looks like an eternal connundrum to me. If you set your book at a low price, then you are giving in to the pressure of the market and setting yourself in among the bargains and two-year old stock. If you set a higher price which you feel reflects the quality of your work you risk low sales. You should never write with money-making in mind, until you are a household name, then the quality invariably deteriorates, though there are notable exceptions like the crime/thriller market. This is little comfort to those who really want to try to make a living from a novel or short story writing.
I think Karl's price looks sensible, and in the end the take-up will come as the quality is recognised. Would you get a serious publisher considering you if you set a small price for your work in a print-on-demand scenario?
The economics of POD are changing all the time, as is their potential market. The PABD offer is much better than most, certainly than the available offers were a few years ago. Being realistic, there is a limit to what one can expect in terms of cost when the book is being printed one at a time as they are ordered. The POD process is about the same cost as offset in volumes up to 500 or so. Between 500-1000 the advantage starts to shift towards offset, and after 1000, it is definitely cheaper to use offset. However, who wants to finance an initial print run of 1000 and then pay to store them somewhere, etc etc.??? Not many. As someone pointed out above, once the book is in print, it is more likely to get noticed and perhaps picked up by a publisher with some money to put behind the promotion. And if not, then at least the author has the satisfaction of seeing themselves in print for a small cost.
Over time, the cost of POD will continue to fall. At one time there was a plan to put POD pinters and binders in most of the Borders book stores in the US so that people could order one a copy of a relatively obscure book and get it same day or next day without the store having to stock it or order it from the warehouse. It changes the concept of being 'in print.' In fact, the primary initial market for POD was academia. The major US service has a contract with Harvard University, for example, to publish all the PHD theses and maintain the ability to print a copy of an old, 'out of print', book as needed. In such circumstances, paying say $30 for a book is vastly preferable to paying $100 or more, or worse, not being able to find a copy at all. It can also be used for publishing corporate in-house magazines, studies, etc. Self-publishing by the general public was never the intended market for this technology, but it can obviously be used for that purpose. In fact, the biggest part of the cost is the binding, not the printing.
In terms of Stormy and Rokkit's debate, I'm in sympathy with Rokkit in the sense that, there's only go to be a certain number of books each year which will sell enough copies to justify very low prices, either in supermarkets on Amazon or wherever.
It's not just John Grisham, the likes of 'Curious incident' or 'Life of Pi' fall into this category but the margins involved in publishing mean that you can't sell books which only sell 20,000 or 30,000 copies (which many very good books by well respected authors do) for £5.
In terms of POD books, I don't think the price is particularly important.
Most of them won't sell many copies to people who don't know the author but I reckon most people who do know the author wouldn't worry too much whether they cost £7 or £10.
I never expected to be universally liked Kevin. You're actually wrong about me being 'obsessed' with UKA, I do however have strong feelings about censorship in all it's forms. Whether or not you think I'm nice is immaterial to me, but I respect your honesty.
Andorra... ipt aol is the tag that occurs when a proxy aol is using IE rather than aol's own browser. Sometimes I am on the uni virtual campus site which i prefer to use on aol broswer, and will post here as an ipt. Some people use ipt all the time, some never use it. So, a proxy is the same as an ipt.
If you are going to sleuth down the trolls, then you need much patience (or access to ip numbers through administration) or you need to spend a lot of time searching archives.
Good luck!
:o)
yeah well done. Plenty of great writers have started with self publishing including Joyce to name but one of many. It is an achievment. and very well done.
aRRRGGGH ... *mumbles* not quite sure what any of that means
just thought it sounded like the same person going on an
on ... an I saw ipt and thought it looked myseterious *shuffles out the door*
Thanks anyway! for the advice - must break into administration or
searching archives (*thinks about chives*)
Thank you for the expert advice!
Well, I haven't done any 'censoring' on UKA yet. Doesn't seem to be much need.
I'd be delighted if someone would come over and act like a twat though, so I can get my editing pen out.
Why are people being so snooty about this? It is an achievement to produce 178 pages of literate, engaging writing, and judging by the excellent first chapter, that's what the Wiggins has done here. Good on you mate.
'But you lot are kidding yourselves if you think you're any different. You've all got your own agendas and campaigns that you can't shut up about. Try practicing what you preach and *not* posting just to let off steam at someone - then lying to yourselves about your reasons for doing that.'
Whereas I am totally different from 'you lot'. When I write: 'please hurry up and die, for the sake of humanity', this is totally different to you lot. If you can't understand that it's because you need to be extremely clever to see how different my approach is to yours. If you are clever and still can't see the difference, it's because you need to be clever and quite gifted as well, but naturally a chap dosen't like to bang on too much about his own attributes...
This email is the property of the University of practising what you preach and shining truth. This email may not be quoted in any manner except by the exceptionally gifted.
[%sig%]
I will be buying this when i have a bit of spare cash. Karls stories on La are amongst my favourite pices of writing on this site. Loved the cover as well.
<>
Yorkshire Blorkjob,
aka Budd,
aka Bucketful of Bile.
This is a site for writers.
We don't want to hear about your pathetic 'achievements'.
You are a crap writer and we know you are.
Go to the bottom of the class.
[%sig%]
I'm always loopy.
(My 'moderating' job is supposed to be
just to make sure
people get information
if they need it and keep quiet myself; in
other words, control -
control! - my loopiness. The answer to
this is ...)
Anyway, responsibility for any
loopiness I fling about always rests with me.
If I have offended anyone, apart from those
offended on principle, sorry for that. None intended!
I'm not being snooty about the route, nor saying there's anything wrong with it. It's actually very noble. Like I said, I'd consider it myself. It's just the fawning of friends that grates - the implication being that the book was taken on by a publisher, convinced by its saleability: "has a book published". Why not just say, "Karl has published his own book, take a gander."? Then you don't leave yourself open to accusations of inappropriately congratulatory bumlicking.
Megalomania sits very well on your shoulders, Jon. It would be a life long mistake to become accustomed to it. Do yourself a favour and leave it to those that know nothing else.
I feel sorry for AJ on this post. She has obviousley tried to tell us about karls book, which we are interested in, as he is a good writer and the thread has been pure hijacked by people with opinions on other things. No one is congratulatory bum licking me for one not. As i said i have read the america stuff and it is very entertaining and the whole thing about a book from a taxi drivers point of view is quite new, is it not. And i am sure this book could go main stream. Think of how many taxi drivers there are with spare time, in fact you should send this book to people like penguin ect, i think someone would sign this straight away.
Well, I just wanted to put in a line of writing
to lighten the load here.
That was from Christopher Isherwood, whose work I like very
much - from a Norton dictionary of key writing from famous writers.
'Interesting thread - Paul has, IMO, taken the bull by the horns and opened up a good debate, and I found Karl's responses stirring and convincing. Strong points from Stormy, Rokkit, JT and David. And I nodded sagely when reading Ralph's tip on marketing.
In keeping with Paul's original point, I will not say 'well done, Karl', but best of luck to you in the venture. I hope it pays off, or at the very least proves a worthwhile experience.'
And that will be all for now class. Before you leave I would remind you that it is polite to raise your hand before asking a question and you should seek permission before going to the toilet. Please dont forget your essays are to be handed in by Wednesday, the title is: 'Is being dead clever the cats whiskers or what?' please slot them in my pigeon hole which is marked professor Henstoat. Have a good weekend everyone and try to remember how marvellous I am until we meet again.
You may go now.
[%sig%]
Sounds like I should get down to reading a bit of Karl's stuff.
Taxi driver's point of view - the feature a lot in Eastenders.
There's also the chauffeur like in 'Driving Miss Daisy' and of course Parker in Thunderbirds 'Parker, we're going for a little ride.'
I see what you've done there Kevin, and it's quite brilliant. You've taken the teacher thing and applied it to Henstoat, scattering your "bit" with pertinent "classroom" references. Oh my sides.
And to Missi...I thought you were going to take no further part in this thread!
The best way to lighten the load, Andorra, is to not participate in slanging matches
You could, however, start a new thread about creative writing since it's a topic quite a few people are interested in but probably won't post on this thread due to it's progressively unpleasant nature
P.s. George behave
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