is it immoral to sue NHS?

depends what happened fay...? actually, no, it doesn't depend on what happened. If they were negligent, they no, it's not immoral. NHS or not, they still have a duty of care.

That is one of the wonderful things about the island! You just go to the dentist and register, and the health center too! All my problems happened on the mainland. I WISH they had let me have Marley here (he did his best, announcing his arrival on New Year's Day when no ferries) but the midwife (who is GREAT) was very determined and managed to get a navy helicopter. It is so ironic : All first time mothers HAVE to go to mainland to deliver incase there are complications (which are apparently more likely for first timers) but I KNOW, even if they had let me tear so badly, which seems unlikely - none of her patients has EVER needed stitches - the hospital here would NEVER let someone bleed internally for nearly 24 hours. They even took my blood pressure a few times and went off saying the thing they used must be broken because the result was coming up so low...

People make mistakes. But if you live by the scalpel, you die by it. Don't feel sorry for doctors (and trust me, they need a pretty bad batting average to get it right in the face) -- they do okay. And especially, don't feel sorry for a big organisation for the NHS: they have the responsibility not to f**k you up, and you have the right not to be. Bear in mind, I do hate American sue culture. But I've had my head re-wired by stupid tabloid stories. I also hate the British inability to complain. And we're not talking about overcooked pasta here.

the biggest daftness about hospitals that would be easy and free to rectify is putting pills and water etc out of reach of people who can't sit up...

Not knowing what the problem is doesn't help, but as Liana and Paul both say, you have the right to be treated safely and carefully. The NHS as such only lose face in these issues, it's the taxpayer that foots the bill, so just look on it as redistributing some of your taxes back to you. I'd have no qualms about sueing whoever if I thought I was in the right.

*sigh* There's no real getting away from it, is there? I think, instead of suing, you should do what the McDonalds pair did and just raise a huge media stink (and not get done for libel). If a big enough revolution was instigated by the public, then the NHS administration would be forced to make changes. The changes they make now are purely political and cosmetic. Something fundamental has to change, and British institutions are notorious for not wanting to change things, or doing it so badly it's incomprehensible. I would certainly stand beside you; childbirth is bad enough without incompetence and neglect making it worse. Sorry about the stitches. I had 'em, twice. *winces at the thought*

If it is something major and you are in your right, sue. Yes, the NHS do seem to have a low budget but that does not mean we have to put up with inadequate doctors, surgeons, nurses and whatever else they use. Talk it over first with a proffesional if you are in doubt.

I dunno, just feel bone tired from it all. Think maybe is like Andrew says, sueing them will just take away enjoying what we have now, marley is growing bigger every day and changing. Putting our energy into sueing the nhs will take some of this time away from us; and no amount of money can compensate us for that. I'm glad they're both alive and here with me now.

Thankyou :0) I'm not sure it's major - I'm not going to die, it's just I'm beginning to wonder if it's ever going to get better. I was told when it happened that I should be completely back to normal in 3 months, and I'm not. And there are things I'd like to do, which I can't. And I wish it would stop hurting. Richie'd Dad knows a lawyer apparently. Another thing is, I was so out of it at the beginning anyway from loss of blood not entirely sure what was going on : eg someone had ticked a box saying I'd been examined and I've no recollection of that. However, it seems to me no one should be allowed to pass out whenever they stand up in a hospital without anyone asking why? Then finding you need two lots of blood you've so little left. That's another thing : whenever I start thinking about it I feel myself getting all angry and horrible, and I don't like being like that...

I'm curious about the pain aspect of it, fey: I too have a horrible NHS maternity hospital war story to tell (I won't). Seven years on I'm still wound up about it, and that's after having a second child (WITH drugs administered at the time of request, NOT having been told "try not to push" for two hours whilst a theatre was cleared, AND having been allowed to eat something more than a few gummi bears for the duration of labour is all I'll say, adding that the second birth was in an American hospital!). But I had a HUGE amount of very sharp pelvic pain for two months after the second birth; I even went to the Emergency Room and the doctors could find nothing. I then went to a chiropractor, who immediately told me that my pelvis had twisted during labour (I was on my left side with a needle in my back...); it took a few months of weekly adjustments and a LOT of gentle yoga to re-stretch the ligaments in my pelvis into the right position. I'm just wondering, if your pain is musculo-skeletal, you might want to consider a yoga/osteopathic combination. Also, and this might sound weird, but the mental trauma of the childbirth might have some (or a lot) of impact on your healing process. Having a very easy, well-drugged up second birth experience went a way toward healing the trauma of the first one for me (although I wouldn't recommend having a second child just for this purpose! ;-)). I'm not suggesting that the pain is only 'in your head'; pain is VERY real. But perhaps there are also _other_ reasons besides just the physiological or the purely allopathic medicine oriented ones. The NHS are in definite need of a rehaul, but as much as we might complain (and have horror stories), it IS still 'free' (if you don't look at your taxes!) and I still feel, after coming (back) from a country where 42 million people have NO medical insurance, that the NHS is shite, but a lot better than nothing at all. But they definitely need to do some creative visualisation on improving things, big time. [%sig%]

I remember when Jackie went in to give birth to Cara. She was induced. Well, it took 44 hours for her to give birth. Thats in labour! No problem there, Cara was back to back, so we could expect probs. It's when it came to the hours leading up the birth that pissed me off. I was tired, so was she (as we can expect) but she'd had an epidural and they made her push for an hour and a half. (if you've had one, you know how..well, impossible it is to push!). Following that, they tried a ventouse...we weren't aware of the damage that had done until we saw Cara's forehead later. Well, they did that a couple of times, really yanked at her, you know. Then, it was episiotomy time! haha...fair enough, if that's gonna get her out, so be it. slish slash...Not a chance. This is when they pulled me from the room and told me to chill out a bit. lol. OK, so we're gonna have a caesarean! Goody! All I can see from here is the specialist (yes, we'd 'upgraded' to specialist by this time) yanking, grappling and, so it seemed at the time, fighting with the baby! Finally, out she comes! Do you know what they did. They hurried me out of the building. "Do you smoke?" "Yes." "Well, out you go..we'll call you back in as soon as we're ready." So I'm standing outside not knowing what to do, they come and get me and hand me my daughter in this 'recovery room.' She's dressed in this disgusting pink romper and she had this awful pink bobble hat on..lol..yes, a fucking rancid pink bobble hat three times to big for her. I removed the hat and her head was a mess of blood, flaps of skin and bruises. I was beside myself with rage. I was worried about J and the specialist came in and told me she was ok. She was in for an hour being stitched and they came in and told me she had a ruptured uterus. I'm not surprised..lol. Cara had been around ward for three days and they came and saw us and told us that they were sure she was downs syndrome. I couldn't believe it. I didn't care about anything other than I'd heard that downs syndrome people don't live as long as 'normal' people. I was devastated. I kept looking at her and kept thinking, "she's not, she's fine." "She's got unusual eyes, fingers and her head is misshaped," they said. LOL..well, why do you think she's mis-shaped?? Anyway, to cut a long story short (I should have done that 2 paragraphs back) we waited. We refused any tests to confirm whether or not she was downs and we waited for her 3 month check-up. This would be the time when they could check for sure whether she was really downs or not. She wasn't. Funny how parents just know, isn't it. um, I don't know why I just said all that. Hopefully it might be of some help :)

Is hard to know what to say. What fey went through was terrible, and for her to have to keep on feeling pain 3 months later doesn't seem fair. However I am grateful she and the baby are still alive. It was basically a fault with the maternity ward, they ticked boxes to say they'd done checks when they hadn't. She kept fainting all the time, and the nurses told her to stop being pathetic and made her walk around and do stuff even though she was very ill. I mentioned to a midwife that something wasn't right, and she agreed to get a doctor to check on her. It took a long time before a doctor finally got to see her, (nobody seemed to be taking fey seriously at all, it was horrible.) I'm glad the doctor did eventually come, because fey lost consciousness and had to be rushed to emergency surgery. In surgery they were desperately trying to draw blood from her veins to do a blood test, but she didn't have any in her veins to give them, and they wasted precious minutes doing this, when they could have just checked her notes to see what blood group she was. If the doctor hadn't checked on her in the maternity road and she had stayed there during the night, I think she would have died, because the nurses weren't checking on her properly, they would have more than likely assumed she was asleep. This in my opinion possibly happened because she had a scan to check the placenta was in the right place just before she went into labour. The doctor who scanned her said it was fine. A week later one of the midwifes scanned her and felt concerned, as she seemed to think the placenta might be in the wrong place. However because a doctor had said it was fine, she trusted the doctors judgement and ingnored it. Anyway when the baby was born, the placenta was in the wrong place, it was wrapped around the babies neck and was strangling him. The people in the labour ward were frantic about saving the babies life, and went about getting it delivered as quickly as they could, which was brutal for fey, who went through hell because of it. Three months later, she is still having trouble from what happened in the hospital and is despite what she says , in some considerable pain, and it is worrying. However, since fey left the hospital, the maternity ward got a bollocking from a chief doctor, and new protocols have been set in place to stop this kind of thing happening again. The staff after were all very apologetic and fussed over fey. Yet we both still feel bitter and angry about the whole thing. It makes me mad when I think about it. And it is effecting fey's quality of life for sure. The whole thing was a disaster, and I wish that it would be finally over and fey would get better. I hate seeing her suffer. Whether it's right to sue the NHS or not I don't know and no longer care. I guess we're lucky to have it at all, though we do pay for it with our taxes, so it's not like we get it for free. Man to be honest I have lost my faith in the national health service, and the private health service isn't any better, in fact it's worse. Did you know a private hospital in London didn't have an aneasthetist, so they asked the porter to do it; and another woman died recently in the maternity ward of a private hospital, because they weren't doing their job properly. I will never feel safe for myself or anyone in a hospital again.

Fey/Funky. It looks as though we went through similar problems in a way. I can feel you. really. Jackie suffered from pnd for must have been 12 months after Cara's birth. They prescribed her Effexor, which she's still taking. She saw a councillor and, as a result, they worked out together that Jackie didn't feel like a real woman because she'd not given birth 'the way a woman should." I know, the circumstances are different, but the principles the same. Jacki has never been the same since Cara's birth. She gave up work 6 months ago. We went through the legal process, to an extent. The first thing you should do is make an appointment with your specialist/doctor or whoever was overseeing the birth and map out your concerns and look for some answers. Normally, they'll be brutally honest and confess that, yes, they do need more staff, yes, they overlooked certain things, and they'll blame the system and the lack of funding and what not, and then it's down to you. We chose not to pursue because their argument was that they did everything they possibly could to give jackie a 'natural' birth, which is what she requested in her birth plan. Whatever you do, I wish you both the best.

Maxwell, I think your wife had it worse. 40 hours sounds ghastly, poor lady!Also, Marley was fine, which is the most important thing, just a large bruise so his head looked like he was an alien off Star Trek. That they tried to cover up what happened to Cara with a bobble hat seems shocking to me. The midwife who should have checked me brought in lots of clothes she thought I might like, which seemed a bit bizarre

I feel much better now I've had a winge, thankyou :0)

fey ... i am sorry to hear of your problems ... it's really odd isn't it that even tho as first time mothers we know what we want and what is right for us we still somehow have to do what we are told ... they scare us with possible complications and have us over a barrel really because of course we wouldn't endanger the life of our unborn child ... i knew i wanted a home birth and it would be best for me with my first and of course the doctor threw his hands up in horror and said all that stuff ... in the end i had to have the baby in a small local maternity unit which was no better equipped than my own house plus midwife with oxygen .... if there had been complications it would have taken as long to get to the main hospital as from my house ... the birth was much worse than my subsequent two (home) births - they didn't require any pain relief or stitches or anything - in fact my third baby arrived before the midwife even got there ... with my first i was 21 and unable to be bolshy ... and hearing your story i think of COURSE you and marley would have been much better off staying on the island with the lovely midwife ... but i know how impossible it is to argue about these things particularly when so vulnerable ... i hope you soon feel better ... and do bang on the doors until you get property sorted out ... take good care x x x

Agree... had exactly the same. I didnt fuss enough to get a home birth with my first child, and because I was young and inexperienced, I agreed with them that yes, they probably knew best. They didnt. Because I had slight complications with first (I hasten to add here that this was because of procedures carried out against my wishes and resulting in a forceps delivery with cuts and stitches) I wasnt allowed to have a home birth with my second. The trip to hospital wouldve been very swift though, should anything serious have developed (doubtful). When you are pregnant you are vulnerable and unsure that what you believe is right. When 2nd child was born, it was in less than an hour, and I insisted on being released four hours later. They didnt stop me. When they said absolutely not to the third as well for a home birth, i was MUCH stroppier... older, more certain of myself. I said "fine, i just wont come in then". So, they then banned me from ante natal classes (yeah, like I'd go anyway to look at pictures of dinner plates and charts of zig zags, and advice on breathing - pfff) in case I influenced other mothers to go for a home birth. How ludicrous is that? The birth was fantastic as it happens, no drugs, no invasive procedures, and the most contented baby out of them all.

The NHS is arguably one fo the best healthcare systems there is - BUT we do pay for it. Mistakes are also made which are often covered up, (not always successfully). This is not just the fault of the individuals or the NHS trusts, but is a failing of the NHS and government as a whole. This is something that does need to be looked at. I agree that we are lucky to have an NHS and still have a 'free at point of use' service as it were. However, I do think that improvements could still be made. Mamy of my family work in profession as surgeons, doctors and nurses and they also say that improvements could be made, however, htey believe it is often dated bureaucracy that prevents change

Fey. There's a little pic of cara here: I'm sorry, but every oppo I get, I like to share pics :)

Was that you with the bike? No sign of the silver hammer.

Mind you it looks like you're just about to bite off the baby's ear in an earlier photo ;o)

lol

Fey, I think you absolutely should sue. I agree with Liana and Missi. If the NHS have failed in their duty of care, which they clearly have - then you are entitled to compensation. Maxwell, did you sue? My friend also had difficulties post-birth of her third child. She had been suffering from considerble back pain and temporary lower body paralysis in the later stages of her pregnancy. She didn't mind the back pain so much, (although it had not been like her previous two preganancies), but the lower body paralysis, (i.e. she'd be standing one minute, then her legs would give way and she would find herself on the floor, unable to move), was clearly very worrying. She went into hospital for observation and tests, (which were never fully conducted as the specialists were too busy), and told there was nothing majorly wrong (!!!!) and to just 'monitor' the situation. They had discussed the possibility of a caesaerean as the baby was close enough to full term as to be safe. Long story short, she was induced, this didn't work, then sufferred an agonsing labour. The baby was born naturally with no pain relief and my friend was in agony. A few weeks later, she collapsed at home. She was in so much pain she had to be fully sedated before they could remove her and it took 4 paramedcis to get her down her stairs and into hospital. Here, they found she had had some problem with a disc which had been resting on her spinal cord. The probelm had been greatly excacerbated by natural childbirth. She then had major surgery and was told there was a possibility she may not walk again, or at the very least, have to use a catheter and have serious other problems. Happily, after 6 months of rehabilitation, neither was the case and she eventually made a full recovery. However, during these six months she was totally unable to care for her new baby or other two children, having to rely on her husband, (who works full time), and her parents (one of whom had serious health problems of their own). She was also unable to pick up or breastfeed her third child, which was extremely distressing. They sought advice and were told they had an extremely good case to sue, but that there were no legal firms who would take on medical negligence cases on a no win no fee basis. They did however find a lawyer who was willing to take an initial. in-depth look at the case. The hospital (suprise, suprise) lost her notes! This is something I happen to have some knowledge about, and hospitals 'lose records,' or at least alter them, far more than people may imagine, in order to prottect themselves and the hospital against sunch cases and the inevitable bad press. My friend never did have the opprtunity to take this further. I too, disagree with a litigious society, but public services MUST be held accountable and the only way cases like some of the above come to light is through thi course of action. I fully support the NHS, and all our public services (such as that are left) and believe they should remain public. However, as people have said, the NHS and (other public services) have a duty of care and when they fail, they must face up to their responsibilities.

Apologies for some of above spelling and grammar- was typing in a hurry! L

yeah, sue the nhs, let's go over to a private health care system as soon as we can, after all, it was an experiment in social evolution that has clearly failed, because every day there are millions of people leaving hospitals damaged by the shoddy and inept treatment they receive there. i blame tony blair, i blame the doctors and the nurses, in fact i might go up the hospital tonight and give a few of the staff a slap.

I would! It's the only way I'm likely to recover my National Insurance contributions from the NHS (no hope service) given that I mostly use BUPA.

I agree with you, fergal, that people should try to emphasise the good things about a 'free' healthcare system; the fact of the matter is, though, that it is a behemoth organisation with some serious administrative and funding flaws. For things like birth control (or having my wisdom teeth out, for example) it is a brilliant system. It's just the emergency services and more dire problems where the cracks begin to show. For one thing, I don't think people ought to be kept in hospital for weeks on end; my father-in-law had a stroke in December, waited in the hallway of the ER for four hours while they tried to find a bed, and then wound up spending two weeks in the demential ward until a bed in the stroke ward could be freed up. By the time he had a bed in the stroke ward, he was already well enough to go home. If he had been in the States, he would have been sent home after probably a week, after getting the 'all clear', and they would have sent the physio home to visit him. America tends to have a lot more 'outpatient' services, I've found, which keeps those beds cleared up. (Mind you, there will be people in the States who _should_ have stayed for weeks that they kicked out too soon, but there you go. No system is perfect.)

It's not such a great system for having your wisdom teeth out if you havent got a dentist archer. This is one of the things that pisses me off the most - my youngest has never even seen a dentist, because there just isnt one.

Ivory, thankyou, that is it EXACTLY. Lizzie, you are right. There were some wonderfully kind people there, and some who were not so kind. The specialist who did the four and a half hour operation, in the middle of the night, also then took the time to explain to Richie what had gone wrong and what to expect. I think he also demanded to know of the ward why wound had not been looked at etc There was also a doctor however who made two mistakes, just with Marley and me, neither of which I can understand. The first was about Marley's scan, when both the gyneacologist, then just before birth two midwives, thought there was a problem with the cord, but he'd done a scan with far higher tech equipment and said everything was fine. Marley nearly strangled. The second time was after the birth and meant I had to have another go of anaesthetic. I would never want to see him as a patient again?

I am just so scared that I'll never get back to normal. That's the problem. I don't want to sue, I just don't know what to do. Richie is being so patient and wonderful, and Marley is lovely and I'm so lucky to have them both, it's ungrateful

I would agree Liana, where there is clear negligence, but the grey area cases are not so simple. And you also need to think about what we as a country want our doctors and nurses doing? Giving evidence in courts or looking after people? Where there are serious areas of malpractice, then suing is the only way to address and get the doctors disciplined, but these cases are rarer than Claims Direct et al would have us believe. Having a baby is still dangerous, even in the 21st century, any sort of operation carries a risk. SARS infections in hospitals is a rather different matter, in my humble opinion.

Is that gonna be a 'sexual assault' case, Denver?

you will. It will take a while, but you will.

Fey - I do hope you feel better soonl. I am sure you will get back to normal, if you give yourself time, you sound as if you are a strong person who appears to have lots of support! I wish you all the best! If you decided to sue, you may be aware there is a time limit on medical negligence cases. Also, if the case went to court, there is also the issue of re-living everything you went through, which may or may not be beneficial to an individual. I suppose it depends on the person and whether they feel it woudl give them 'closure' whatever that may mean! It is a difficult sitation, and each case as to be comnsidered on it's own merits, i.e. whether it will help or hinder recovery, Whetevr you do, good luck - and, as you say, you have Richie and Marley. L x

After seeing her blither away on the television about how "upset" she was to have somebody elses baby handed to her, she should be subjected to electro-shock theropy followed by a mandatory stint in the hospital laundry. The TV crews that responded to this story should all be sent to Guantanamo.

a catalouge of errors by the nhs in helping me deal with self harm and the issues that led me to do this and the subsequent damage on my health relating to a seven year period. here it is : infact i can't be bothered just now but it was like london 1999 london 2000 cambridge 2002 dublin 2002 dundee 2002 st andrews local 2002 Edinburgh infirmary 2002 glasgow gartnavel 2002 western some of these on several occasions stitched my wounds in casualty and on a few where really quite series and they would always discharge me with out and advice or insight in to how deal with this behaviour or how to stop it. I self harmed while homeless through this seven year period in all these places. ask the totenham police theyll tell you a story or maybe outsdie cambridge university, the cambridge police maybe. The nhs changed there guidlines last year on how to deal with people who self harm and now are meant to give follow up to paitents who arrive with wounds of self harm but what about those asked for help prior to this. they went away in to local communities with abuse surrounding them. Abused for being ill. of course when you get pass a point they say thats it and speel of all this socio political. these are human beings. Now its from hospital to prison cell while. Problems then suffered combine various things, low self esteem , male rape, crime, gender distortation, prison, abuse, unemployment. Being brough tup religous yet seeing so much hypocracy, self harm ,near death experience, dead, rise, walk more, laughs, mockery crucifiction, batterings, stigmata, rise up rise up defend your life with hope....now he wants tae be a wumen hahahahahahahahahah, batter batter spit, religion politics nationalists, hes a fuckin human being, the wumin only wumin self harm...hell rise the fucking dead with the amount of his blood thats fileld the drains of this country.... down the broken streets up in to the clouds where the rain did break through the blood of an age rained all over you stop killing them with lack of services stand up and be counted for your mistakes pain pain its not a joke its not a joke

God I must spellchek!!!

I agree, Liana; I was very lucky to find a new NHS practice open in the city where I live and be able to get my kids in immediately.

Difficult without knowing the facts - my inclination would be to not sue. Despite what claims direct and dubious adverts would have you believe, it is not always someone else's fault that you are suffering - even if you shouldn't be in pain, sometimes this sort of thing just happens to unlucky people. If you really feel strongly that the doctors were negligent - well, I'd still be concentrating more on getting well. Medical negligence cases eat up your life and take years rather than months to resolve and just end up making you feel bitter and angry about what are, really, precious and irreplaceable moments of your life as you watch your daughter grow up. Save the negligence claims for wrong dosages of drugs administered and surgical instruments being left inside people. Not a legal opinion, just one based on your best interests.

Maxwell, she looks like a DARLING :0) Lizzie, your story sounds dreadful. It seems to me, from this thread that I have got off lightly. I don't want anyone to be criticised just for being overworked. And because of what happened to me, they have instigated proper checks, that HAVE to be done on everyone, so it can't happen to anyone else :0) I think Andrew is right, suing is not really very good idea though. . I've got a beautiful baby, who could have died but didn't. Nor, thanks to Richie, did I. But I think I might have fifty years or so ago, so can't complain! If I sued and amazingly won, I would probably spend the dosh on Marley anyway, and think it would be better to spend the time on him instead, rather than fretting about courts and lawyers and if my case stood up (when I was a bit out of it, they asked if they could destroy photos they'd taken of problem, and I said ok, so can well believe what Lizzie says about losing records...) I love this forum, you get loads of information and opinions and kindness, and come away with all your thoughts untangled :0)

I dont know so much... how do they ever get the impetus to stop being such arses, unless people sue? Filthy wards and couldntcareless staff are rife in our local hospital. When my Grandad died in filth with no one giving him so much as a drink for hours, i was raging. And when my friend was misdiagnosed over YEARS with breast cancer and told to go away and stop being neurotic, the large sum she sued them for (whilst suffering from secondaries throughout liver and bones) bought a house for her (now orphaned) kids. The policy and procedures have changed and the specialist was sacked, but unless they have to pay out, wheres the incentive to change?

Having a baby at home is safer, I can testify to it. It certainly doesnt die from MRSA in the first hours of its life. Not in my house anyway, couldn't swear to anyone else on heres hygiene...

We had a case here in Denver a month or two back where a mother was accidently brought the wrong baby for feeding by the hospital staff. It took all of 20 seconds to figure out, there was never any danger of the infants being swapped as they were correctly tagged. The poor nurse just picked up the wrong baby. However, the mother was on every news channel, having a fit. Seems the mom started breast-feeding the little fellow and noticed it didn't have the same hair. She's sueing the hospital.

I hope you feel better fey, and am glad you and the baby got through it. Childbirth is a bloody shocking thing on the body when you think about it. It's amazing the amount of people who get through it these days (comparitively). I know nothing about suing (even how to spell it), but I would say it isn't morally wrong to sue the NHS, but you have to make sure you know why you would be doing it... We live in a society obsessed with perfection. When I hear people slag of the NHS it gets me down. So many people have a good experience of it. We've all read so many times how bad it is, often without experiencing it ourselves. All I know is that my mum and dad both ended their lives in NHS hospitals and that they were both looked after wonderfully. Yes there would have been things that made them more comfortable etc, but the staff were excellent, really caring, really nice to me and my family. One night my dad was so scared in the all man ward he was on that the nurse let me spend the night on a chair next to his bed so that any time he woke screaming, I could hold his hand and tell an inappropriate joke. Before he went into hospital we had the District Nurse around everyday to change the syringe driver, clean him up, administer any embarrassing (for a proud man like my dad) procedures. She did this with humour, patience and an attitude that made my dad less scared. His doctor came around to check on him during his illness just to see how he was doing (and how we, the rest of the family, was doing). All organisations have good and bad staff - that's the pick of life. We get free contraception. If we are very ill we get a free bed and care. We have a National Health service at all. That is quite something. I know that doesn't mean we have to accept dross, but I do think it means that we need to take things into consideration. When people slate 'The NHS' they are really slating either a) something they've read in the paper or b) an experience they've had of individuals within it, not the actula NHS itself. The last two paragraphs were not address to you fey - were more an out loud thinking thing other posts on this thread induced. I think you need to do everything you can to feel good and get better and lose the anger.....whatever you feel that takes should see it right.