I'm assuming that those who think "Torturing Tanya" was "sad, badly written, shitty porn" actually read the story? If so, then I appreciate your comments and applaud you for having actually read the work you are criticizing... if you're not protesting from actual knowledge, I'd encourage you to click on one of the links I've provided in my "ABC's of Censorship" section and actually read what you have decided to lambaste...
That's the problem with most people; they're sheep... one person voices a concern or a complaint, and rather than think or research for themselves, they simply get in line and march in lock-step to that self-proclaimed leader...
I'm also curious, to those pompous asses who now choose to degrade my talent; how many of you have actually been published... actually had your name in print in a real live book or magazine, not on a site like this where you get to "live your dream?"
Come on, let's see those hands!
Now... how many of those have been in print WITHOUT having to pay somebody (as in subsidy or vanity publishing ventures) to produce their work?
Ah, I see a few hands being lowered...
NOW... ONE MORE THING... how many of those with your hands up have ever received a dollar... or a pound... for the words you have written?
OK... I see a couple of hands besides mine... but guess what, to the vast majority who are now sitting with your hands humbly in your laps... MINE IS STILL UP!
So before you decide I have no talent because you've listened to the spineless whiners who only like sex to produce babies; in a dark room in the missionary position... open your eyes and your minds BEFORE you open your mouths...
Good day...
Paul. Don't be silly. There are a lot far better writers than you
on this site.
Ok. You are not the worst, but that is not the point.
The point is that, despite yourself, you have now revealed your true nature and purpose through your submitted works and postings..
..the best argument for giving everyone a platform.. their truth outs.
You do not wish to contribute to this site creatively but to peddle in the excessively maso sadistic style of pornography that turns you on.. unfortunately for you.. this stuff turns out to be against the law in this country and I'll vouch over the line of what most people would consider acceptable in a civil society..
You delude yourself, there is nothing original or groundbreaking about being sick.
So here is a chance to redeem yourself.. pack up your baggage quietly and try and find other sites where you can share your interests with like minded people.. hopefully you will grow out of it someday.
Here's the bottom line - thoughtcafe are willing to publish Paul's stuff - that's their choice. abc have reservations - that's their choice. Anyone who wants to read the piece can go and read it at thoughtcafe and make up their own minds and pass their comments on to Paul. For what its worth, I don't think it was shitty, badly written porn - but it was erotica that was more sexually explicit than abc is really intended for - horses for courses.
If you were writing a screenplay of Torturing Tanya Paul, you wouldn't rage that Nickleodeon or Fox turned it down, you'd send it to HBO or other channel that might be interested. Nothing more sinister than that - no evil conspiracy, no narrow-minded people, it just isn't what this site is about. Take it on the chin, and send the strong erotica elsewhere.
And really, whining on and attacking all and sundry is not convincing people of your cause. The piece is on thoughtcafe, its had more publicity than any other piece on the site, if people want to read it, they will go there and read it.
Paul,
(1) The first amendment to the U.S. constitution is irrelevant outside the U.S.
(2) Even inside the U.S., the first amendment attempts to guarantee that the government will not restrict freedom of speech. It does not obligate the government or anyone else to provide you or anyone else with a forum. You have to find or create your own forum.
(3) Whether in the U.K. or in the U.S. the owners and managers of a web site or any other publicly available forum have the right to determine what does and what does not go on their site or in their magazine etc. What you think about that is irrelevant. If you don't like it, create your own forum. There are millions of web sites. Create one. Publicize it yourself. End of story.
(4) I sincerely hope this is the last post to this thread, but something tells me it will not be.
FYI, I am a U.S. citizen, so don't even bother going there.
hey, I like thoughtcafe VERY MUCH! I hope that it is made clear that thoughtcafe has nothing to do with Mellete's sayings... ok? I saw you Mellete at thoughtcafe! ok? you shouldn't speak like that!! I read some of your work.... I respect you... but don't try to disregard the policy of a respected site that so many like and many love! hey everybody, andrew as well, make things clear please!!! I feel strange about all these............ thoughtcafe should be left out of this mess that Mellete's postings caused!
what the heck is happening...................??
thought cafe is included because the story that has been banned from here is readily accessible in thought cafe so it has everthing to do with Mellette's sayings.
I might have defended the piece if it was well written. But it isn't. Tony was trying to cushion the blow I feel. It could be a good story if the word count was at least halved for a start.
The characters ned to be brought to life more and the plot made believable ... an improved start might help tug the reader along as it was I became bored after the first installment. I pressed on only because i wanted to find out what the problem with it was.
Paul says he is trying to bring things we are uncomfortable with to the fore. Really? I didn't find this an uncomfortable thought in the least ... it has little to do with reality ... it is no more than the imagination of a sick mind. (you have to see it to write it)
There was an incredible amount of repetition within the story and it was drawn out , especially the final scenes in the torture house and the attempt at tension building beforehand ... by which time the reader knows she will be saved ... and as for the 'happy ending .... this is a sort of lengthy postscript added in an attempt to justify the story in the first place.
I thought the content concerning the torture was over the top and risible. You failed to turn me on but you managed to disgust me. Not for what you said but for the fact you think people might like this stuff. Are there any real life stories from which this story is drawn? it would make it more interesting if there were. As it is i find the idea of a guy strapping blades to himself utterly stupid. people often write about uncomfortable subjects to get a point over to the reader. I did not derive anything from this except that, as an author, would like to inflict pain on females by the quite unbelievable method of strapping razors to your nub.
The story was all 'tell' with no 'show'.
The dialogue was not bad but not good.
The characters .... well I had no sympathy for any of them and they were very thin.
The plot was non existant and hardly feasible.
Theme. Well, you said it was about good winning in the end ... all the bad guys met their just deserts ... i think there might just be better ways to illustrate this point without delving into the abyss you so enjoy.
So, there you have a crit on your story rather than some uninformed piece of bigotry.
I am glad it is off the site and don't care that it has been read by 4000 readers on WBM.
How many of them have emailed you for more?
how many publishers have begged (a word you might like) for the rights to film the story?
only my opinion of course, thanks for the read but can you keep it shorter in the future ... i only read it through because of the furore.
ps. it got a lot more reads because of Tony's post didn't it?
so why complain?
But i do agree that it should not be here. It serves no purpose. It does not inform and does not titillate. Blah blah blah ... see above for further details.
apologies for all the typos' and bad grammar. I am not that good on the keyboard and wrote this live. I only say this so my crit is not denigrated tomorrow for its grammatical and typographical failings. I think my meaning is clear though.
Stormy:
I appreciate that you actually took the time to read the piece... I wonder how you might have reacted had you not been jaded by the furore before hand, but since that was not possible; I accept your constructive criticisms...
I would defend one aspect though, you criticized the repetititions... the story was originally written in serialized format... in fact, you probably noticed the breaks still in the complete piece that denoted where each "episode" broke and started... As was the case in the old classic serials of the forties and fifties, there was a need to remind the reader (or viewer) what had recently transpired... I chose to not be so cliche'd as to say "In our last episode..." but that was pretty much the underlying theme...
It's really most tragic that the story was allowed up and then pulled down here... had it been left up and, without prejudiced statements, simply been ignored, I'd have probably left or began placing some of my less kinky works... as it is, this has become far more fun than checking who's said what about a story... I'm sure I can go on indefinitely!
The night is young and so are we! Let's party party party!
well paul ... glad you are enjoying your 15 mins of fame ... i read some of tanya before any of the furore ... it wasn't my thing at all as i have said ... and i don't think stormy (who i know to be a fair and sensitive reader) would have been the least influenced in his crit by comments made by others ...
*still holding hand up as someone who has been paid for writing*
I gave up about half way through as I could not sustain any interest and I was feeling slightly sick - as I suspect are you Paul. I recommend you get some treatment now before it gets any worse. I was surprised by Stormy’s synopsis - I didn’t anticipate a happy ending. The characters seemed to inhabit a world that had never known happiness. Definitely dull and deranged.
Where would Mykle suggest I "get some treatment" from? Have you ever noticed there is but a simple ( ) space that seperates a "therapist" from being "the rapist"? Maybe that's because that's what they do to your mind?
Maybe the writing and the reading of violent fiction IS the therapy for some individuals? Maybe by denying them and me our outlet, you're creating a dangerous situation for them... and their potential victims?
And how could you not have anticipated a happy ending? We've been talking about "good triumphing over evil" ever since this thread began and the "truth" of ABC's posting policies began to unravel along with it... How would you have supposed a that could happen WITHOUT a happy ending?
But then it proves my point, the noise of a few "goodie-goodie" types prevented those who might have been so inclined to read the piece for themselves... in a convenient locale; the pristine haven that so many are afraid to stray from or to open to those with different views...
But fear not... there's lots more where Tanya came from...
;-)
One more thought; kind of my goodnight kiss to you... ;-)
In the first post in the Torturing Tanya thread, Tony Cook said about the controversial story, Torturing Tanya... "It's also well written and well constructed."
So those who want to take pot-shots at the story quality... might want to back up a step and read it for yourself with an open mind... or shut up... or question the veracity of any praise he might have lavished upon your miserable works... because if his judgement is that poor on my piece, how can you put stock in it for your own?
Sleep well... pleasant dreams!
Not on this site there ain't.
Exactly which part of 'it's against the law to publish this in the UK' don't you understand, f uckwit?
I will give you one final warning. You have just threatened to repost (or post similar material) after being given clear notice that such an act constitutes a criminal offence in this jurisdiction. Do so, and I'm reporting you to your local police department.
One or two less stupid people on these forums know that I don't intervene usually, and never lightly. I advise strongly against assuming I'm joking.
Hi Paul, I can't agree that reading violent sexual fiction is, or could ever be, therapy - unless as in Clockwork Orange they were forced to view it as part of some aversion therapy. I think it can only encourage those with serious problems and may result in sufficiently sick people acting out your fantasy. For this reason, if no other, I urge you to turn your talents to a more constructive topic. If you really believe you are a good writer you do not need to trade in sensationalism and sado-masochism to attract a readership.
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