Marriage

gill and i have been together over 10 years, but married only 9 months....we weren't that bothered about getting married the first 8 years, then it started to nag at me, and I asked her...i think she was surprised to be asked as we had settled into being non-married...so does out marriage work ? I think 9 months is too early to answer that question, an easier question is am i happy, and i am most of the time...we argue, well she argues, I'm crap at arguing...but she does give me space which i do need, she can't be arsed going to pubs, so i meet mates like i did before i was married...although a lot of them are now settling down and aren't out so much....I can't imagine being married to anyone else...and when i ask myself the question could i live without her, the answer is definitely no...(is that a double negative ?) well put it another way, I can't imagine life without her.....

Err maybe.....

Apparently children from broken homes are statistically more likely to end up divorced than those from unbroken homes. Growing up in deprived circumstances supposedly precludes a high percentage of them from forming and maintaining stable,loving relationships of their own. I've always had my doubts about these statistics, partly because they don't seem to take account of the fact that a lot of seemingly happy couples in fact despise each other, row constantly, and only stay together for economic reasons. I was the product of a broken home and it made me doubly determined that in the event of my marrying it would be to the right person for the right reasons, and it would last a lifetime. What a naieve tosser I turned out to be, I've known Jean for close on fortytwo years and like Eddie and Gabrielle I've been married 31yrs, everyone of 'em a mistake I never had the guts to put right. The thing is, to a statistician I am a happily married man. Yeah right.

I agree mississippi... Obviously divorces are very difficult for most children, the statistic doesn't necessarily mean anything. Although my parents split up, I don't feel that that makes me less likely to have successful relationships myself. I don't feel messed up by my parent's separation in any way (in fact I have a much better relationship with my mum now she's happier and have learnt a lesson from her, to still be my own person and make sure I always feel free enough even if my life is completely intertwined with another's). I can think of a fair few people whose parents are together but hate each other's guts and I can just see that they aren't going to manage relationships well themselves. Which is worse depends on who you are.

Looks like my brother's relationship with his long standing girlfriend has gone down the toilet. I had some issues in mine but I am acting on it and sorting it out. I am a realist. Nothing is ever what it seems to be. Life can be shitty and bad things happen, and other times it can be great. I want my brother to get back together with his girlfriend. I know he loves her still but its all bollocks sometimes. No, there are no other people, I think they are both terrified of commitment. Believe me, people need to talk and I think that was what didnt happen. I would always say that talking is better than sweeping it under the carpet.

No, I see that point! When we consider ourselves 'in love' with someone, it's often because someone makes us feel happy in ourselves and confident - we may be in love with them *because* they make us fall in love with ourselves On the other hand, when that person doesn't reciprocate affection, it can work the other way round...

I’ve never been married. This alone makes me exceptionally well qualified to offer an opinion on this topic. I asked someone once, but she declined, thereby exhibiting far more sense than I did in asking. That relationship, if you could call it that, was already a disaster, but at least a much bigger disaster was narrowly averted. I grew up on a very odd family situation. It looked OK on the outside, but the internal dynamics were crushing. Even as a small child, I sensed an air of unreality about their relationship. Technically, everything was in place (except that they slept in different rooms on different floors of the house...oh well). Yeah, they were married. They had a house and a car and one child. The statistics looked just fine, but living with them was surely not a home. I’m still looking for home. My parents married in 1942. They never had a wedding, though they could afford a small wedding of some kind. They never had a honeymoon, though they could afford a modest trip of some kind. They were married at the Justice of the Peace (a civil ceremony in the local courthouse) and then took the train from Newport News, Virginia to Williamsburg for a honeymoon. Williamsburg is a tourist place, even today, a re-creation of a Colonial Era town. They arrived with no reservations and there were no rooms because thousands of sailors were on leave at the time. So they got back on the train and spent the honeymoon in the trailer park where they lived during the war. He worked in the machine shop manufacturing parts for battle ships. They could have taken a trip somewhere else at a latter date, but they never did. I recall seeing a picture of them standing outside the courthouse when they got married. I have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of photos of all kinds around the flat, but I can’t find that one. Like the marriage, maybe it never existed. They had wedding rings, but I never once saw either of them wearing a wedding ring. Not once. Oh, I stand corrected: Dad was buried with his wedding ring. I think Mom wore hers in the coffin as well, but the undertaker removed it before burial. I’m not sure where it is. I might have given it to a cousin, or maybe it’s here in my flat. I don’t really know. Maybe it’s underground with her after all. I don’t care, except that I could use the cash right now. As to the question about marriages breaking up, sure they do, but I’m skeptical about how many of them were ever really formed in the first place. Divorce became a fashion statement in the 70s, not unlike bell-bottom trousers and poodle-hair on men. Buy a pair of Addidas shoes and get a divorce: package deal. They’ll throw in a skateboard for free. Yet, marriage was a fashion statement long before that. Why should we be surprised by divorce when the marriages weren’t serious?

It goes back to the infidelity thread in a way. You won't be unfaithful to someone you're in love with because they feed a mysterious addiction. You feel they have some key to helping you understand or appreciate yourself. Someone who loves you unconditionally and whom you have known a long time, maybe that is true love. But it gives you a lot of space and that makes for restless feet............ So perhaps true love is of the moment, and marriage is to do with practicality, maintenance of the species, love being then a side-issue. The initial perk.

'true love is of the moment' ? ok

um, well I am expecting to get married soon I just hope things work out Mark

I have discussed this with mrs. stormy. We have been married for 21 yrs with a prior 2yrs of living together. I thought that if we put our heads together we might come up with the finest post abc has ever seen. The secret of marriage longevity revealed. Newspaper columns, books and TV appearances would follow. But, after a lengthy discussion, I am afraid fame will have to wait. I can't see much mileage in our conclusion of 'we muddle through'

I dont think you can define love that easily. Its a bit more than fancying someone. I mean if you find you have a lot of common interests and spend ages talking to each other...sometimes we dont talk enough I am sure, preferring to sweep it under the carpet. Does anyone love the friends?

Sounds like a good plan to me.

iceman. one thing I've learned (and I am being uncharacteristically, deadly serious here) is Never interfere in a relationship! people have to make their own decisions, on their own. If they ask, give a (careful) opinion, sure, BUT if they don't don't push! I've seen more blood on the floor.....

Am I reading between the lines here Richard?

Precisely why I have been expressly warned off from talking to my brother's girlfriend. My brother is cool about me calling him as all we did was chat about facts and not speculate. In fact he was very pleased I had tackled the issues in my own relationship.

I was having a chat about this sort of thing a few weeks ago with my mum, when we'd both had a few drinks and were getting philosophical. She said she still loves my dad, but she's not in love with him. She also said that she married too young. She then went on to say that she believes that human beings are not meant to remain with the same person for their whole lives, unless they find their soulmate (couldn't have expected that less, my mum believing in soulmates...). She concluded by announcing that she had no regrets about the relationship, and she wouldn't change a thing. So, does love change over the years? More specifically, does marriage change love? And should I stop drinking with my mum? :)

I don't understand the difference between being 'in love' with, and 'loving' someone, when the person in question is your partner.

Ari, I would warn your mum to stop drinking with you! (what a girl!)

I think love is never a static thing, because if it was it would break just as easily. I think love evolves. I think in my own relationship we are still evolving. True love means talking to each other. I do recall that when my wife had a long chat last Sunday, I told her I loved her for the first time in a long time. I dont buy flowers or chocs, I just say it when i feel it. I also love my family and my friends.

*splutters while drinking coffee, has to be patted on the back* *looks under carpet* *changes subject fourteen times*

Just as I thought!

I do.

My parents have never got married, but they've been together for about sixteen years now and are still very much in love, I can't imagine them ever splitting up. I suspect that part of the reason why they didn't even think of getting married (although even if they had I don't think they would have done, a wedding isn't the sort of thing they'd enjoy) was because my sisters and I turned up so quickly, unplanned, and all at once. It's like they skipped the marriage altogether and went straight into parentdom. Another reason may have been that my dad's sister has spent most of her life so far in the purpose of Finding a Man, Getting Married and Settling Down, something which has put him off marriage altogether. And neither of my parents are religious. Pick and choose the reasons really, but my dad's told me in the past that he thinks (in some cases) marriage spells the end of the relationship rather than the beginning. I don't know, I am young and inexperienced in these matters. :)

I got married when I was 25. I think some people I know will have been at work for a couple of years after doing Uni at that age. I went out with the girl I married for three years before we got engaged, and another two years before we got hitched. Tell me, do people get engaged anymore?

only when they are on the phone a lot.

I will NEVER speak to the Ira!

orange you glad you can shout then ref? I have a black cab waiting. Do you want a ride or do you want to hitch with those ants that protest so?

'tis my aunts that protest, ya papist lackey! Sinn Fein don't feign sin. They do it for real. May my God go with U xxx

Your God can come with me but will have to pay the fare. unlike those feckin orange tree hugging bastard free lift hitch haikus

you're a rob-bin bast.ard so you are!

I think there is a difference between loving someone and being in love, missi, although I'm not sure I want to know in my parents' case! My mum often says that, were she my age, she wouldn't have married my dad at all, because it's a religious ceremony, and if you're not religious then it seems rather pointless. I think I agree with that. If you are in love with someone, if, in fact, they are your soulmate, then is it necessary to marry them? I think Penmagic's parents are a fine example. Then again, I expect I'd change my mind if the man of my dreams popped the question. My mum will be disgusted. *sob*

I'm getting married next year. Up until this particular relationship marriage always struck me as one of the most pointless things people could do and weddings themselves an expensive waste of time. I can't really verbalise what changed but something did and it happened very quickly. So I'm not really answering the post (except to maybe say, "ask me in eight years time ...") but I am saying that it's probably wrong to say "all marriages..." because people get married at different times for different reasons and they will face unique obstacles both inside and outside their marriage.

Me and Jane have been together ten years and we are still bonkers about each other. We are not married and don't think we ever will be, we dont need a piece of paper and some badly iced cake to cut at a reception full of gawping relatives to prove our committment to each other. I very much liked Tony Cook's comments though. sure and true. ralph

fish, are you trying to worry me? I've just got engaged! there am I thinking happy thoughts of wedded bliss for me and hubby forever.... gazing at my sparkly diamond ring and thinking I've never been so happy.... *makes note not to read the readers digest.

So, Ralph, there is no truth in the rumour that you keep asking her and she keeps saying no?

oops ... sorry gail and jon ... perhaps you could see this thread as Hints and Tips instead of a gloom fest ... perhaps some of the long married amongst us could offer an insight into how it's done??

I don't see the point since they scrapped the married couples tax allowance. I don't like the way divorce is so easy - it renders marriage meaningless. Padraic and I have toyed with many ideas including having a catholic marriage, me taking his name by deed poll, but not making it valid in the eyes of UK law, as we both think the law is a joke anyway. Apart from feeding loads of relatives you'll probably not see again and of course the painful interference I will endure at the hands of my mother. On the other hand I would like to declare in the eyes of God and the world that I'm staying with him forever. As for the 7 year itch thing - its all about transcending our animal nature. It can be very difficult but if you don't do it then you really are just a naked ape

No sorries needed. Hints and Tips? Now, that might be useful, although I think most of it boils down to being open, honest and trusting (and trustworthy). Easy to say, harder to do.

my parents survive on constant bickering, not a path I'd like to go down at all, but i guess it has meant they've both got things off their chest at the time rather than bottling them up and not communicating.

I got engaged, then married as fifteen years ago, thats what we did. I wouldnt force anyone to get engaged or married. If they are happy living with each other then thats good enough. I think, though, that getting married is not just a religious ceremony, its a way of demonstrating your love for each other publicly. Even a registry office wedding achieves this. :)

re the 7 year itch, I have an idea... we could start planning something special to do in 7 years that we can look forward to.. holiday of a lifetime or something, and maybe every 7 years after that.... can't wait, now looking forward to my 8th year of marriage again.

We're just coming up to our 27th Wedding Anniversary. We're no angels and we do bicker and we do fall out. She suffers from dreadful PMT and I work far too hard and lots of other stuff I'm not going to tell you about. We've been going out since we were 17 and 16 but right now we couldn't be happier. It's the first time for 25 years we haven't had a child in the house for a week - not that we don't love and adore our children - but it's just great. Youngest gets back from Spain tomorrow. The secret? There isn't one. Be prepared to do the time. Forgive a lot. Talk when you can and don't push it when you can't. Accept that there will be times when you just can't stand each other and, after a bit, try and do something about it. We can't be too bad an advert for marriage as the eldest (25) is intending to tie the knot next year. Middle one though says he'll never do it. I know I wouldn't do it again (she says the same) but in this case, in this instance, at this time I'm glad I did and I'll stick to it.

I think there's a big difference between being in love and loving someone, though you can do both. Being in love is more exciting and based on illusion. I think its more a case of being in love with yourself and transferring it onto the other person.

My long marriage is almost entirely down to my wife putting up with me. I'm extremely lazy and I have a solitary nature. Jean is extremely industrious and also likes her own company. Nevertheless, we're together most of the time and I don't think either of us ever gets on the other's nerves. We seldom argue, both of us having come from homes where there was a lot of bickering. I don't know what else to say. I love my wife, she's my best friend, she's the nicest person I've ever met.

does having children help or hinder a marriage?

ahhh Tom, just read your post, that's really lovely. I hope my hubby to be says such nice things about me in years to come.

now there's question gail ... i didn't marry the right person in the first place and i have a real fantasy that if i had i could have brought up my children with him (the fantasy Right Person) and all would have been hunky dory ... what having children and choosing to stay at home and look after them instead of working DID mean was that i didn't have the financial independence to leave earlier than i did ... so the marriage lasted as long as it did due to the kids i suppose ... tho we did get married AFTER we had the first child so i have no experience of marriage without kids ... kids for me is what its about i think ... i can't think of anything better to do really ... or anything that matters more ... so to have kids with the right man surely couldn't be a hindrance could it? ... tho being a parent is both better and worse than anyone can ever imagine ... ...anyway now i will never know as i am past it as for tom ... i don't think there is anything better that anyone could say about their partner ... i like that ...

i read somewhere the definition of a family as " a group of self-centered individuals, loosely held together by the television set." quite funny methinks

I've been married for 31 years.(lived in sin before that - for about 2 years - isn't living in sin a wonderfully old fashioned statement!) I think my marriage must be a bit like Tom's.