You know i take my beliefs through the life i have led. I believe that the lucky ones to find God in there life are people who go through real S**T becasue of other people and who come out of it and find God on there travels.
God trancends through thought, no he doesn't talk to you, you just find the truth and that gives you peace inside. I dont believe for a second that you become closer to God through religion, although this can be a gateway if used right.
in this day and age there are millions who would lay there lifes for God surely this is a true sign of such an existance or are people trying to say that these people are all brainwashed, and if they are then are people who believe just in life and all its trappings not the brainwashed, brainwashed by media, sematics and other forms of subliminal mind control.
It is widely recognised that we are moving in to a spirtual age and have been doing since the fifties (2000 years later and all that), this could be viewed as the rising of Christ.
There are plenty of people who say this is false and put all there belief in to fellow man, but look at the state of the world, this has been mans doing, not Gods. God transcend feelings of love peace and forgivness not greed materialism and jelousey.
Anyway God is not war God is peace and i really enjoy my life now that i have found God and that doesn't mean i cant have sex, heck even dress up as a bird if i want to *coughs shamefully* smoke a little pot have a pint talk about football *or hockey* because as long as i am content and not hurting peoples feelings and what they believe in well then the world is my oyster and thats what the big G says.
easy G
Kierkegaard actually laid waste to Anselm's prrof I don't believe it either, I was simply illustrating that there are some meaty arguments out there.
god cannot be proven or objectively grasped...it is an act of faith (and trust)...into the arms of the living God.
"Why is there something instead of nothing?"
God is beyond something-ness and nothing-ness. Lord Krsna (who vaisnavites say was God incarnate) said
"I am beyond both what is and what is not"
in fact Krsna contantly talks about Himself in terms of paradox;
But it is I who am the ritual, I the sacrifice, the offering to the ancestors, the healing herb, the transcendental chant. I am the butter and the fire and the offering.
I am the goal, the sustainer, the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge and the most dear friend. I am the creation and the annihilation, the basis of everything, the resting place and the eternal seed.
O Arjuna, I control heat, the rain and the drought. I am immortality, and I am also death personified. Both being and nonbeing are in Me
well can i be an honorary lapsed catholic club member - as although i was raised a lapsed c of e (nearest we got to sunday worship was songs of praise) I fantasised about being a member of the catholica clan - all that brocade, incense, ritual AND latino singing - just sooo dramatic ...
so I imagined myself as a Sister of Mercy in some forgotten strata and was convinced I would be delivered of a second virgin birth and the whole world would be healed...
I mean the Jesus of Mark is a punchy and powerful rebel. His family think He is insane.
He hated synagogue idealogy and hypocrisy (much as some of you guys hate the ideology of the modern church).
There is no account of the virgin birth, no angels singing over mangers. There are no latterly developed theological concepts craftily woven into the story. What we get is a real no-frills Jesus who doesn't mince His words.
There was no resurrection. The original Mark ended at about 16:8 with the women at the empty tomb. The post resurrection sightings of the Lord were added on at a later date.
On a personal note Mark is poorly written (so I have a lot of empathy with him!) Scholars have declared his grammar downright atrocious in places. He wasn't a highly educated man, unlike the Doctor Luke, the academic whose gospel is so well composed in high Greek. Yet Mark is ambitious and His account of the life of Christ is not a dry straightforward bio any more than it is padded out with poetry, theology or mythology like the other gospels.
The whole thing is a gritty parable.
Worth the read: recommend, 5 stars!
Hovis,
Good post! If you are still interested in the ritual and incense its not too late. You can always sign up to the Adult initiation program, although are you still eligible for a virgin birth?
Although be warned...once a catholic...
jude
There's a big difference between Catholicism in the Anglo-Protestant world and Catholicism elsewhere. In the US, for example, Catholics are essentially Protestants on steriods. It is truly the worst of both possible worlds, and they are a rather scary lot. I grew up as a Protestant in a largely Catholic neighborhood, and I barely thought of Catholics as human. My view on that subject hasn't changed much over the years. Of course, they televangelists and the right-wing protestant nutcases are no better.
What has changed, however, is how I view Catholics outside the Anglo world, where the Puritan influence does not exist. In those places, the intensity is often lacking. It is openly hypocratic because the priests know that humans can only be expected of so much. In Poland, for example, there is an annual walk to Cathedral at Czestochowa. Teenagers walk all the way from Warsaw (about 100 miles I think) to this big get together. It is very popular because they hook up for sex along the way. Evidently the roadside landscape is littered with used condoms all the way to Czestochowa. The priests generally don't care because it's how they get the kids to go on the hike; in fact, some of the priests take part, I've been told. More generally, if someone strays from the staight and narrow, they go to confession, put a little money in the collection plate, say five hail marys and few paternosters, and all is forgiven. The strength of the system is the 'hypocracy.'
I'm still not buying what they're selling, and yes, some people take it all very literally, but they constitute a tiny minority. As one person told me here years ago: "Yes, we're all Catholics, but were not all stupid."
...mmm well if I went down the designa vagina route you never know...I could fashion a near as damn it, synthetical revolutional, spot the difference kinda one.....and did you ever see that play? very insightful and dramatique.....I went with a few convent schooled friends and they were flinching with the resonance!!!!
- did you every fancy Jesus then????
I prefer to take the rap for my own sins and atone in this life. Id rather be a good person because it was morally right than because I was scared Id rot in some firey hellhole (i mean C'MON)
IMO religion is for people who cant cope with life...
as my sonwho everybody knows or nearly everybody knows is Down's said, "God is dead". says it all don't it.
PS bet ya all missed my calming element on the threads? OOps sorry not allowed a sense of humour being Scottish!!
My young daughter was trying to explain to me the other day how broad-minded she was. "I don't mind what religion people are," she announced. "Makes no difference whether they are Christian or Catholic."
When it comes to belief in God, there's a tendency to divide people into three categories: believers, atheists and agnostics.
Well that overlooks a fourth and very distinct category into which I and many others fall: someone who is all three simultaneously.
Great quite from Graham Greene's Monsignor Quixote. Catholic priest and atheist communist deposed mayor discussing religion and Monsignor Quixote says "when Karl Marx said 'Religion is the Opium of the people' what he really meant was 'Religion is the Valium of the poor'
Graham Greene was a great screwed up Catholic, as was Evelyn Waugh. I went to a convent school, taught by nuns (obviously) and initially completely seduced by the glamour of the Catholic Church. The churches were overwhelmingly beautiful to a small wide-eyed child, the robes were shiny as penquin wrappers and the smell of incense made me weak at the knees. I was in the choir too, singing latin with a great enthusiasm, completely in the arms of the Church. I had my First Holy Communion on a snowed-up hill church in Lourdes - the romance was still strong for me. I even considered becoming a nun but when I told one of the sisters - she laughed at me and said that I had a funny face for someone who professed to be devout. Therein the rot set in and I also began to read and read about the Catholic Church. Murder, torture, abuse, hypocrisy, bullying, corruption - suddenly it did not look so pretty.
Once a Catholic though - guilt is etched evilly into your very being.
Read Joyce's Portrait of An Artist - that will tell you why we leave....
I was brought up as a Catholic and while I may have fallen victim to either the romance or the guilt on occasion, I didn't so much lapse as escape - thank God!
I just dont buy that crap that religion is for people with problems. At the end of the day the catholic chapel does soem good work all over the world, work most of these media types laugh at but at the end of the day all they are doing is filling there own faces with food and wine and the arts. How many of you guys who go on about catholics been full of crap do community work for nothing, i would be interested to hear. Just because you choose a life of greed and a life for yourself doesn't mean in any way you are right in saying that catholics are full of crap.
The catholic church for all the **** you say it causes is one of the main benefcators to charitable causes in the world. I am not a full time catholic, part time yes but i know the work they do and its quite actually. Just because you had a bad experiencec yourself doesn't mean that the whole religion is bad, thats all hocus pocus and said a lot by people who are quite bitter in life, bitter maybe becaus ethey cant fulfill all there sicko fantasies because the church gave them a concious. Life is not just about you, what about the poor, the sick and the dying. And actually you find people who have problems are not practicing catholics, i can assure you of that. All the catholics i have ever met have been quite content with there lifes.
Soem of these comments sound like they are the antichrist. I mean do any of you guys know what kind of charity work the catholic church does, i dont think so judging by the comments.
Its easy to harp on about peadophile priests and the catholic church but you cant hold that agianst all catholics thats like saying becasue an english person or scottish person who arnt catholics commit peadophilia then all english and scots are paedophiles. Do you see what i am saying. You just cant saying these things against the catholic church, they hold no weight.
It would be good to hear where the guys who are so anti religion bury there dead and where the service is held. Marriage birth death. Christianity will live for ever in Europe no matter what the heretics say as much as they would like to think that they will wipe religion from the world, it will never happen. Christianity can move with the times and it is trying to and it will.
Jesus was a great man the greatest who ever lived.
I love you jesus, even through my own pathetic faults i love you and take you as the saviour of mankind. If it wasn't for what jesus done most of progressive europe would not be here.
In no way am i a trouble free or a saintly person but its rather unfair that catholic people should be at the brunt of all the jokes.
Hey so does that last comment make me some kidn fo weirdo. Me i move with the times living my life so what if i go to chaple. i drink laugh smoke write make love wear smart clothes dance, smoke a bit of joint now and then,i mean i just dont need to get bitter about catholics oh and by the way i had a really ******* hard time growing up because of religion but at leats i dont sell out and harp onandonandonandon about catholics been bad and full of **** because there all not like that. And it really is pathetic and immature and nonseical to talk about all catholics on the strength of a few bad apples. Me i have respect for all religions protestants jews muslims hindus hari's included even although i was physically beaten for years beacsue my walk to scholl passed through the wrong neighbourhood.
Only a fool puts down religious orders. Religion has stood for many an innocent man when everyone walked away.
Oh and please dont judge me just for my comments on this post. It wasnt me who started it but i do feel there should be a bit of balance in here.
A wise man once said dont mock religion. It starts wars, you would have thought that of all sites on the web a writers web site would be aware of this the most.
Easy peeps life goes on: read my poem postcard from an angel this was written after i was in hospital after being seconds away from bleeding to death. Not one word was changed and it carried this form. Live life and love all religion and all.
If any of this is offensive i truly apalogise in goodwill becasue i want to say hello to you at the doo, and dont want you to think anything bad of me.
love
Yep. I worked full time for a mental health charity for ten years, I just dont boast about it.
According to instructions I have left, I will be scattered in the water of a river which I love when I die, and I dont want any crap spouting at some looney religious funeral service thanks.
I dont need a crutch (well, ahem) and I am not so afraid to die that I have to subscribe to some fairy tale of the afterlife to allow me to live.
Next?
The only people who have said anything logical on this thread are Andrew for finally seeing religion for what it is, and Liana for having her marbles in the right order.
PROOF that god exists?
Sorry there's no such thing. it's a bloody fairy tale, and one I can live without. You can bang on about proof till the cows come home, but I've never heard, read or seen any evidence that I can't rip to pieces in seconds. What Liana says is sadly the truth, religion is for those that can't get through life without a crutch. All religion is bollocks. It ain't even innocent bollocks in the main, but just a nasty method of control.
Stephen, it is easy to dream up a scenario that will baffle mankind. The Times crossword does it for most people most days. Humans are always in awe of things they have no answers for.
The problem with a lot of your guys' anti-Christian sentiments is that they are based on the fault of other people. People are not perfect. True Christians aren't perfect. But why judge the values of a religion off of other people? The religion itself isn't corrupt. People are corrupt! If any of you have been put-off by Christianity based on the actions of other people, you are gravely missing the point. (As most of the 'Christians' you have been in contact with were likely missing the point, as well.) Christianity not about other people. It is about God. And it's kind of silly to say that you are rejecting God because of a person or a group of people.
Read the Bible. If you see Christians acting contrary to what the Bible says, then they still have things to work out before they can flourish with God. You might even try telling them that they are acting contrary to God's word. If they 'tell-you-off,' don't worry! They are acting contrary to God's word again, because that's pride!
Also, I don't know why any of you would feel guilt. If your church itself is making you feel guilty, then it might be a good idea to find a different church. If it's *you* who are feeling guilty, then you can stop! God forgives, so there is no reason for guilt.
Personally, I wasn't 'rejecting' your god or anyone elses, Don. My position regarding ALL religions is based on logic. religions, ALL OF THEM are absolute bollocks.
do you want to know the truth, i cant stand them or their religions none of them. liana your my hero. my dream in life is simple to work as a barman and write. im a friendly big guy im not a transvestite and im not anything. i just cried for a bit after relising what i wrote. they dragged me up and hit me frequently.im sorry guys, i hopei can still come to the event, im never going in toa church in mylife
hey Stephen don't be hard on yourself. my dear friend Mississippi could tell me a thousand times how bollox my faith is and he'll still be a mate
forgiveness in practice I hope...
I screw up all the time but I can but try
jude, they are not mutually exclusive, though the way the quote is presented it might sound that way. It would be more accurate if it said 'religion alone' and 'spirituality alone' but then it wouldn't read very smoothly. Of course, one can have spirituality within religion. The objective of religion is to create spirituality in people. Sadly, it rarely does. The reverse is also entirely possible: spirituality without religion. Its actually easier that way because I don't have to come up with reasons to explain the bad behavior of the religionists. They've just got it wrong from the get go and what more can I expect from someone who is misguided from the start.
I'm sorry I have to disagree with you Justyn (...I have been disagreeing with you a lot lately, come to think of it...), but I still fail to see how you can have spirituality without religion. Spirituality has to be based on something. I suppose it could be based on one's own rules, but unless this person is extremely disciplined (and I'm talking about *extremely disciplined*) as well as *extremely* wise, the foundation would be too shaky. Not only that, but I don't think this person I described could ever exist. Even if this person did exist, then he/she would be following his/her own religion. So, I think that true spirituality must exist only in religion.
Again, I feel very on-edge when you bring up the 'bad behavior of religionists' ... It's not the religionists that matter; it's the religion itself!
oh of COURSE you can have spirituality without religion.. to suggest otherwise is ludicrous! Spirituality is a calmness, a "goodness", a deep peace within, and can have nothing whatsoever to do with religion... what makes me so exasperated with religious people is the blind acceptance and the dogged insistence that religion is a FACT when it is no such bloody thing... The brainwashing is ridiculous. If catholicism was so fine, it wouldnt need to rely on guilt to keep people attached to it - in fact if the church (pick a church, any church) was any bloody good at all, it wouldnt be dying out at a rate of knots worldwide.
Wow! I have sprituality and never realised.
Jude honey, you know I wasn't casting aspersions on *your* religion, my views and feelings on religion are entirely theoretical, much the same as the religions themselves.
Pages