check this out!

Missi - I'll be fine. I'm very diplomatic where it counts. Never forget the incredible inconsistency of man - I can go over to UKA and be sensible there, because that's what they expect, then I can come over to ABC and f.uck about, because, as Faith points out, that's what the atmosphere seems to demand. Then I can write a CV in which I sound like a deadly serious company kid. All these personality changes! All before breakfast. A Nob Serve - see 'Fruitloop' thread Faith - you did start it. I'd completely forgotten you and I didn't get on until you brought up the old 'Hen wants to be editor' issue. To continue the metaphor, you came back into the pub and flicked beer at a bunch of us. Missi again - What stick? No one does anything wrong in the poetry forum! David - I can only hope.

Oh I couldn't point to one of mine - modesty prevails I'm afraid - but for an example of how to be MORE successful with humour than you were with the Henstoat-as-schoolmaster laughathon, I point to every post ever posted on abc ever (and that includes the posts of Karl Wiggins, who finds humour a hard slog, but is regularly funny never-the-less).

I'm sorry, but i've been absent for some time. just to check on the latest storylines in this soap, please can someone confirm the following: *Mississippi is called george and has a long-standing love-hate relationship with ralph which culiminated in the award winning two-hander "forty years of argy-bargy". *liana has left the square and moved to marbella where she is studying for a phd in latvian limerick adaptations *it was revealed that henstoat was the lovechild of harold "bully me", this led tony cook to declare that he would never make editor, henstoat screwed his face into an angry cherise fold, and vowed to join "the other side" *paul greco left for good, taking the infinite taxi to itv, only to return disguised as several "the full monty" tribute dancers. *karl wiggins came out of the closet as somebody who actually does things, you know, out there in the real world. a brave storyline that the producers hope will increase tolerance withing our society

pretty much except you forgot: MYB has incensed (Ha) the non-believers by posting an old evangelical email polemic that basically says all the current ills in society are the fault of society for telling God to fuck off. (Casts doubt on the faith of the believers to influence Him stay if you ask me) Mykle (in many disguises) has come back and left several times but always leaving nuggets of wisdom he has gleaned from the nuttier side of the web. S-D is in recovery nicely and, whilst driving everyone nuts and tlking to himself has at least found an outlet and is no longer self-harming. Harold is MIA.

If "this is a site for writers" Missi, why are YOU here?

Farrow?

Thank you for the advice Paul. I don't blame you for being modest, I'd do the same in your position. Best Wishes.

He only comes here and posts his juvenile crap because he isn't allowed to on his 'home' site, Vic. Mind you, I wouldn't want to stop him, freedom of speech and all that.

Mamma?

>> I can go over to UKA and be sensible there, because that's what they expect, then I can come over to ABC and f.uck about .... What stick? No one does anything wrong in the poetry forum! << The point is Jon, that CAN'T f.uck about on UKA cos it's run like an army camp, and you CAN f.uck about on ABC because it has an open liberal attitude to real life. It's worth noting that in spite of ABC's liberal policy it STILL has the liveliest most thought provoking forums (for they are what the whole argument is about) of the two sites proving that the heavy-handed controls on UKA are pointless, unless of course their existence is to ensure a safe haven for those of a sensitive disposition who haven't quite worked out yet that the real answer is to not join in on things they can't cope with. The 'stick' is only a threat, it's existence is sufficient in most cases. Finally, it seems to me that you went to UKA partly because you didn't get your way on the ABC forums (ie. installing the SS ) but I quite happy to come back to ABC to be abusive to whoever you feel affronted by. (I wouldn't want to see you stopped though, unlike yourself with regard to others)

he wishes

true true And I reserve the right to tell him off, in the interests of freedom of speech of course. Actually no... i'm going to bed instead

Ooh that hurt.

Oh God. Is Kevin the shy one at the back of the classroom who has painted "I love Teach" across his eyelids? I'm simply going to have to send a letter to his parents.

STOP BULLYING HAROLD! STOP BULLYING, HAROLD! STOP, BULLYING HAROLD! (Eats, Farts & Leaves)

Oirish Bloke: "anyone can do it if they have enuff spondoolies". David: "POD is a genuine form of self-publishing which, for technological reasons, tends to be cheap and in some cases free for the writer." So Karl, out of genuine interest, how much did you front up yourself? Anything?

Interesting thread - Paul has, IMO, taken the bull by the horns and opened up a good debate, and I found Karl's responses stirring and convincing. Strong points from Stormy, Rokkit, JT and David. And I nodded sagely when reading Ralph's tip on marketing. In keeping with Paul's original point, I will not say 'well done, Karl', but best of luck to you in the venture. I hope it pays off, or at the very least proves a worthwhile experience.

Thank you all. One of the writers who's had a great influence on me, and who's style I perhaps amateurishly attempt to model sometimes would be Bukowski. My favourite would be the book that tells about his earlier life before Post Office. Other writers that have influenced me would have to include Jeffrey Bernard and Bill Bryson. POD certainly has changed in the last few years, in fact probably in the last 12 months. Vanity publishing was indeed, as David says, "the preserve of the extremely naive," back in the days when it would cost about £10,000 for a print run of books that ended up cluttering your garage after you'd given a few copies to friends and family. For me, Cab Driver has been a journey. It's a release of sorts. Something that needed to be done. These are stories that had to be told. And for me to move forward with my writing I needed to get them out of my system. I've been aware of this for some time. There are still more stories that need releasing, but for the most part I'd like to think that I can now concentrate on my Primrose Path set of history books and perhaps my poetry, which I'm having a lot of fun with. Blessings to all of you who venture into the world of Cab Driver, share my innermost thoughts and experience a few laughs and scary moments along the way. Thank you. And finally, PABD has a fine business model. I suggest all who are considering this route to check out their website. I have absolutely no complaints.

Karl, I congratulate you. I have purchased my copy already and am eagerly awaiting delivery here in the States. I know it will be a delight to read for I have not read anything of yours I did not enjoy. I wish you the very best of success in sales and your next venture. Rita

"Well, I haven't done any 'censoring' on UKA yet. Doesn't seem to be much need. I'd be delighted if someone would come over and act like a twat though, so I can get my editing pen out." UKA knew your dribblings would be of an inconsequential substance, on account that all non arse licking posts would be deleted immediately. However should you wish to persuade the 'she devil' to reconsider her actions, I am prepared to pop by and give you a run for your.......whatever!

Good luck with this Karl. I really mean it. But in your last post you state, 'I perhaps amateurishly attempt to model sometimes would be Bukowski'. Learn a bit of PR old son because that could open you up to ridicule, not by namechecking a great writer, but by stating that you amateurishly attempt to model. The word 'amateurishly ' does not sit well if you are trying to suceed on any level. I am not judging your work here Karl and its not an attack on you. Its just I think you should be talking yourself up more a little bit in this case. Cheers Ralph

Your terms are too couched in your own weird language to make any sense. So stop talking to me. Or, indeed, anyone.

Good luck with it Karl... and well done for getting this far.

Henstoat, that post was an error of judgement on my part. I apologise. Paul, I don't expect to be able to reach your standards when it comes to wanting to hurt people. I've had a run in with Henstoat before which will have been of little or no interest to anyone else and there it stands. Now on this occasion I thought Henstoat sounded like a teacher and I thought it was pompous and my reply, my attempt at humour is there for all to see. Now some people may have found it funny. Some, perhaps most, may have thought that it wasn't funny at all and it was me who ended up looking like a plonker. Well that's the way it goes isn't it - if I'm foolish enough to get involved in name calling then I run the risk of looking like a fool... But my use of this forum is quite different from yours. Sometimes I get into a spat and enjoy trying to outwit the other person. But I wouldn't dream of turning it into a campaign. Even though I sit here and there is only a screen in front of me as I click away I'm well aware that there are real people involved. If I thought my posts were doing harm I'd stop posting. Also, my real name and my email address are included in all my posts - I say 'all', in fact I read the general diss regularly but don't often post - anyway, it gives anyone the option to send a private email. Now if I was told that I was causing someone real problems I would be mortified at my own stupidity and would stop posting. That's my use of this forum. Yours is quite different. After the debate about whether the forum should be moderated you engaged in a campaign. A campaign which you have said gave you a lot of pleasure. That campaign was to cause as much hurt as is possible over the internet. You selected the people and then you spent a lot of time and a lot of energy to upset those people as much as you possibly could. You had occasional pauses to boast about how much satisfaction this was giving you and then returned to your theme. And it did seem to work. Certainly people did post and say you were upsetting them and you were causing problems. They didn't always know who they were posting to because part of your campaign was being anonymous. You didn't stop when they asked you to. You expressed pleasure at the discomfort they felt and carried on in the same vein. So I'm like the vast majority of people on this forum. Sometimes my posts are interesting sometimes they are boring and sometimes I wish I hadn't posted them. But I'm not like you. People who spend a lot of time and energy specifically to try and hurt others are not common. Everyone feels like it sometimes and everyone says things with the aim of hurting sometimes. But you're different from that. Your history on here has been to plan, scheme, devise and implement ways of causing problems for others over a long period. Given all of this I'm sure you'll understand that if I don't live up to your standards then this gives me a lot of satisfaction.

too intelligent for you brown nose?? lmao

Well Karl looks like you have three people who love you me "Kath" have to put myself first of cause, AJ and Tara judging by both threads which I agee with and with us and a few more ladies I noticed in your corner what more can you ask for, I very rearly go into the stories but did read and enjoyed your Cab Driver ones so just be guided by us perfectionists and you won't go far wrong, said she with tongue in cheek. Good Luck Karl with everything you take on xx...

I read the intro and liked it. Soon as I get paid I'll buy a copy!

Thanks Karl, for forwarding us this discussion. Hello to all of you. I am one of the people running PABD. The service got started because I was trying to self publish a cookery book with a group of friends from a cookery and recipe internet discussion board. Nothing for general release, just for family and ourselves. Being a designer by trade I was appalled by the cost and quality I was offered by traditional vanity publishers and printers. As a result me and Iain, my partner in this venture, did a fair bit of research, sourced suppliers, begged and borrowed resources and time and after about a year of work PABD was born. We use a lot off technology to keep our prices down. We also use one of the UK's best digital printers to produce the books. (They've won Print Week's 'Book Printer of the Year' award for the last 6 out of seven years). When we first started building PABD we were expecting our typical users to be first time authors. What has emerged however is that we are getting tremendous interest not only from publishing virgins but also from already published authors who, for one reason or another, want to take control of their own writing and cut out the publisher completely. Especially mid-list authors, who feel that they are inadequately supported by their publishing houses, have been very interested in using PABD to publish their work. PABD takes the author from the bottom of the food chain and puts him or her on top. There appears to be a growing similarity with the music market where a fair number of established artists, like Prince and George Michael, have recently done the equivalent to self publishing by starting their own music shops on the web. PABD, and other ethical self publishing companies like us, offer a way to ensure that we have variety and choice in our books. I don't want to get into a rant about what is happening in the publishing industry at the moment but the chances of getting published and then promoted and supported are dwindling if you're not considered to be extremely marketable. Anyway, I hope you see this as an attempt to explain where we are coming from rather than blatant self promotion. Karl, congratulations on your sales and thanks for trusting us with your work. It has been a real pleasure to produce it and I have actually bought a copy myself. At the full price rather too. Now, how's that for a vote of confidence?

Well said.

Kevin, I think I like you.

The author of Shadowmancer, Rev. Graham Taylor sold his motorbike to self-publish the first volume and has just signed a deal with Faber for £3.5 million for a series so I raise my glass to you Karl and wish you the best of luck. I'm a big fan of Karl's cab driver tales and if this gets them in to the wider arena then that can only be a good thing.

Here's the deal, Missi - I got an account on UKA because I thought it'd be cool to use both sites. There was a long period where I uploaded stuff onto both. I've never 'switched' - that is, I've never decided, "Right, enough of ABC - I'll go 100% with UKA" - it's simply that, through a process of going on either site whenever I feel like it, I've ended up spending a lot more time on UKA than I do here. And so, when the subject of the 'better' site comes up, I will say that I prefer UKA, and give my reasons as best I can. It really isn't something I worry about much - I've got far more problematic and important (to me) issues closer to hand. As you've merrily noted, I am evidently not as adept at coping with "real life" as you, so I have much less time to worry about Internet site politics. "The point is Jon, that CAN'T f.uck about on UKA cos it's run like an army camp..." And you can't have a sensible discussion on here without it turning into a rambling, hard-to-follow, and often aggressive contest of wills, because it's anarchy. As seemingly billions have pointed out before me, it's best to have *both* sites operating as they do, rather than them being identical, for the simple reason that you get different kinds of discussion in each. I'll leave it to others to decide which version of 'Hen' they prefer, but I suspect, of late, they'd rather have me in UKA mode.

All these anonymous posts get so boring, I mean, Felicity admits to who she is and EVEN gives her e-mail, and she's sometimes very naughty, but she's prepared to take the consequences, because she's got me to fend for her. *cheesy grin*

mia = missing in action

kevin take a chill pill you had a pop and ended up getting battered by someone bigger than you it happens man theres no need to embarrass yourself

How many modes do you have? [%sig%]

"I'm sorry, but i've been absent for some time." More likely in suspended animation since your last joke, judging by how much this new batch have moved on. Hey! I've got a great idea for a new one! How about some kind of crazy gag about how I want to become an ABC editor? Ignore the fact that the only occasion I've mentioned it is when someone else brought it up, at which point I said, quite truthfully, that I'd never have the time - that doesn't matter. This is clearly a comedy goldmine. You might want to also look at a) the fact that I'm younger than most of you, and b) the fact that I'm at University, and ergo, *must* believe I am more intelligent than everyone else. Because that's what students are like, right? See, for example, the post above by 'Professor Henstoat'. Note how whoever is responsible doesn't in any way look like an unfunny twat with nothing relevant to say.

oh dear. nothing changes then. at least i have an excuse for my psychological stasis, being older than sin. some people are so-o-o touchy. xxx

Stormy, gosh I've missed you, hows your goat, was I the sheep, or the goat I can't remember?

I'm just saying - get some new material, man! I'm only at Uni for the next month or so, and at some point I'll be middle-aged. What are you gonna go for fun then? You'll be up the creek without a paddle.

"How many modes do you have?" God knows.

Good thinking beautifully expressed, Kevin.

Isn't he your Dad?

Who?

"You attempt to keep your identity secret..." Ha ha ha. Yeah right. "As usual, Dicko smacks of sour grapes." Oh Missi, you are a one. Come on, even YOU could get a book deal this way. I'm very happy with my small achievements - have been offered token amounts of cash a couple of times, and numerous free copies of the magazine; but in every case the only thing that was "in it" for the other party was my poem. These are achievements, no matter how small. My point: merely writing something of length is not an achievement - at our level anyway, maybe it is if you have special needs - nor is having £65 to spend. And I also wish Karl good luck...why not? He's an unknown writer who wants to make it, and in this way I feel much more empathy with him than I do with Missi who doesn't want to - or pretends he doesn't want to - hit the shelves. Mind you, he did submit something to the UKA anthology, so he can't be THAT unlike the rest of us.

And I don't do "weed". Rubbish drug.

It seems to me Martin that Kevin made the Manchester moron look exactly like he is, a sad little man with nothing going for him.

But if you dig deeper, George, you'll probably discover that like most bullies he gets bullied himself. Most playground bullies get whacked or at least screamed at on a regular basis by their parents. Their bullying of other kids in the playground is their way of getting back at "someone" because they obviously can't hit their parents. Greco is the teacher that all the other kids (and probably the other teachers) take the piss out of. He can't do anything about that. He can't hit them. He can't even shout at them. So he bottles it all up inside ..... ..... until he gets to his computer. "Ha ha," he says, "Now I'll make someone suffer." If he wasn't such an objectionable character I'd feel sorry for him.

Oh and by the way, excellent summary Kevin.

aj, someone told me you like germaine greer, is that true? just wondering....loike.....