things that happen

Thanks Liana and Lou. I really had to kick myself up the ares today. The pure dog was in pain and the only way to stop it was the have him put to sleep. Ill miss him like hell, but it was the right thing to do.

Can I just say that I never meant to change my name to fergality, it sort of happened and then I forgot to change it back.

If this thread does one thing, it's show that most people have experienced something painful, or terrible, or that leaves them with regret/anger. The best thing I can take from that is that it makes us all have much more in common than it seems sometimes from the outside. John - that is a very sad and terrible story - but the fact you can smile at the memories now is brilliant - and is a great advocate for the capacity of the human spirit. Ben - it's good to have you along. Sometimes this forum does get quite intense in a kind of revealing all way. Other times it spirals into frippary. It's a great combination of the both, and can be quite addictive. (shurely not fergal?)

I was a pretty miserable kid and teenager. Looking back I think I was pretty depressed at secondary school. I really wanted someone to talk to or give me a little time or attention. My unhappiness manifested itself mainly in me getting into trouble at school; drink, drugs, setting fire to the school chapel. This nearly got me expelled on more than one occasion. Miss Martin, our deputy head was always trying to figure me out but she had such a job disciplining me, she found it hard to let me know she cared. And I was too stubborn and foolish to say what was really wrong. She had cancer for years and suffered a lot. After I left school, she bumped into my sister at a wedding and asked after me and said how worried she was about me. I guess at that point I should have gone to see her and explain that all I ever wanted was for someone to help me. But of course I didn't and she died soon after. I regret it so much I dream about it quite often.

a friend of mine was crossing the road when his bag slipped from his shoulder, he stopped to pick it up and the woman walking alongside him was killed by a bus just two feet in front of him. regrets? I've had a few but, then again... oh no hang on! It's best to just accept that there will always be, by definition, an infinite number of things we haven't done. Just put your regrets on that list and they look a lot smaller. It's the list of the DONE things that we should be looing at.

Wow, that must have been weird for your friend... Yeah, I know the thing about regrets being pointless... I don't tend to have regrets in general and am pretty happy with the way my life's gone mistakes and all. That's a cool thing about the list - A good few years back I once advised a miserable friend to make lists like that and it helped her loads. She'd always looked at her life as a list of the bad stuff that had happened. She realised that if she kept trying consciously to think of it as a list of good stuff then she'd be all right. (okay, okay, the friend was *me*)

consciously I accept, but as my recurrent dreams indicate, subconsciously I can't!

yeah - that's my point too!

And I'm sure that woman knew that was why you were difficult already jude - sometimes people know stuff without you telling them.

I hope so. In fact I am pretty sure. I could have the kind of chat I needed to have with her with someone else but I'm an adult now and I don't do "inner child"! I might write a letter to her and see if that helps! And then the good thing is that I tracked down someone else with whom I had a similar difficult teenaged relationship with and told him what was really going on and it was the best thing I've ever done.

I would have liked to sort things out with my Dad - but he died on the day after Boxing Day three years ago. He was a very 'private' man but then he had a lot to be private about. My parents split up when I was 11 due to his alcoholism. I didn't see him for many years but once the kids came along I began to see him again and he was a sweet, if hopeless, Grandad. I tried once or twice to talk to him about what had happened but he didn't want to go there. He was too old and it was too painful for him. I was gobsmacked at just how deeply his death effected me and I began to realise just how much he had meant to me - warts and all. I never really forgave him and I'm not sure I could - but I wuld have liked to talk it out with him at some stage. I dream those talks but ... well, it's just too late and what's not done can never be done. I don't beat myself up about it but I do regret it. I guess it's just one of those things you learn as you weave unsteadily down life's yellow brick road.

My mother died from cancer at my sisters house in Clacton. I used to go visit her regularly in the last few weeks and months. I took my eldest son with me the last time but she had been very disorientated for 2 or 3 weeks. She didn't know who we were, couldn't keep any food down and even vomited up water. After 45mins I didn't see any point in staying and I told my son we had to go. We didn't HAVE to, I was just bored. She hadn't been any worse than the previous week or so, and therefore I fully expected to see her again the following Sunday. My sister phoned the next morning to say she'd died. I've never forgiven myself for not staying longer, or telling her I loved her. I couldn't shed tears for her though, not for 6 months, then I fell apart at the seams. She died 16 years ago and I still feel guilty and it passes through my mind at least once a week. I also regret not staying at drama college, getting married and not getting divorced.

Everyone should forgive themselves everything I reckon. Then you can move on and feel better. I think that there will never be a situation where someone in your life dies and it feels okay. It's the nature of death, of what it represents *THE END* which is something none of us really want to accept, not even if you're a bugger like me who thinks about it all the time. You can imagine how it would be if it had all gone the way you'd hoped or wished - but if it had then you wouldn't be you, and they wouldn't be them, and so all the other good things about you wouldn't be there either. Easy for me to say; I'm just about as harsh to myself as I'm not to everyone else.

I think the worse case of this is when someone takes their own life. I remember when I was just 18 one of my gang jumped of the town multi storey carpark. It was awful. He'd told people what he was going to do and it never registered in our naieve minds that he was serious. I wasn't there the night he died - in the pub - I was away on a field course. He gave his wallett and watch away and said goodbye and for years after everyone was kicking themselves saying " why didn't I..." and "If only...". Nine years later I go to visit his mum who is still beating herself up over it. She told me how he loved fruit salads and she said "Some times I think maybe if I'd made him fruit salads more often he'd still be here" and I wanted to say stop torturingyourself but I know she can't so I didn't say anything.

We had a similar thing a couple of years ago (the reason I first wrote on this site in fact). A friend of ours was having woman trouble and started to get very drunk on occasion and threaten to do something stupid. We’d get distraught phone calls and the alarm would be raised and we’d all go out looking for him and then someone would take him in to keep an eye on him for a few days and then it would all blow over until the next time. But as this went on and on for nearly a year and he refused everybody’s advice about getting out of the situation, we all began to get a little hacked off with it – I know it sounds dreadful now, but the cry wolf suspicions set in. And then of course he did go and do something stupid. His teenage son had REMs Everybody Hurts played at the funeral and I now turn if off when it comes on because of the line, ‘take comfort in your friends.’ But if I’m feeling objective (or wanting a cop out) I’d say, if someone’s really determined to kill themselves they'll most likely do it anyway, you can only really postpone it. [%sig%]

Hi all, I'm pretty new here and I was just checking out some of the threads when I stumbled across this, an impressive display of honesty. I'm guessing you all know each other pretty well, I feel like I've walked in on a family meal or something. Nevertheless, I was reading some of the messages, Mississippi's in particular, and wanted to say a couple of things: I think we all know that what is done is done and can't be changed. If there are any Truths at all, that is certainly one. But the application of that - to say, 'well, it's in the past now and there's nothing I can do' - is easier said than done. I had a very similar experience to Mississippi and this is what I think: If something bad happens, you are entitled to feel bad. If something good happens, you are entitled to feel good. Entitled and required. I know how simplistic that is as an attitude, and I know it's hard when you're in the middle of it, but if there's one thing worse than regret, it's feeling guilty / depressed about the regret itself. For me, the best cure for thinking is doing. I try to get on with things consciously, and let my subconscious deal with the mess. I'll get back to you in a few years and let you know if that works... Ben..

My regrets over the senseless death of my sister have been overshadowed by anger in this past year. Since her death, her 20 year old son has committed suicide by jumping in front of a train. He wanted to be with his mum. Her daughter has gone completely out of control and no one seems to be able to help her. She is just to angry. I regret the consequences for the kids she left behind. But I don't think I will ever stop being agree with her. Id rather feel angry than suffer the pain that comes with over whelming regret.

Ben welcome. Yes we do know each other fairly well but your comments are much appreciated. John, that is really tragic but I'm not sure anger is preferable to pain. Each to his own but I'd rather feel the hurt no matter how hard that is going to be. I want it to be real!

Two things really. 1. Buggering about at school. A form teacher took me aside after another term of hacking all the staff off with my disruptive behaviour in class. (Although my mates thought I was very funny - and some of the teachers) He said if I didn't buck up next term he would write a letter to my father and deliver it personally. I went from 37th out of 38 to 5, which included 2 weeks absence. I was told 'keep this up and you'll be going to university.' 2. Becoming alcoholic. It destroyed my relationship with my son. It destroyed a musical career that was not so much on the up as there. I guess backing a no 1 singer who sold 9 million singles might be described as being up there. Famous people were trying to cherry pick me, if I'd been a sober individual I would have made better choices. And of course alcoholism is insidious, it creeps up and you don't realise it until you're on the floor. I seem to be coming out of a 30 year alcoholic hiatus and don't tell me I haven't wasted my life because I have. I knew what talent I had and would have become amongst one of the worlds best. This is not arrogance just an observation. Hey; you only have to practise 4 hours a day, anyone will get more than extremely proficient. Then you factor in the time spent playing and you're talking classical music standards of technique. Driven? you betcha! I find writing about this is making me want to go out and get wrecked. To paraphrase Marlon Brando in On The Waterfront 'I was a contender.' Christ I should be living in the South of France in a Chateau with loads of nubile...........

Hi Ben, the funny thing about honesty is that as you get older it gets easier to bare your feelings and nerve-endings, at least for most people. I guess that the embarrassment of youth and the vulnerability of inexperience dwindle, you end up thinking, 'why not say what I mean?' It's so much easier than hiding true feelings or beating around the bush. There's not much difference between us all anyway when it comes to the crunch. John, your family story is truly horrific. I'm sorry you had to bear all that, and your family also.

I'm staggered by how many people are touched by suicide and by cancer on this forum. I was lucky with my mum who was in a 50/50 cancer situation a little under 20 years ago - she survived, albeit quite disabled. Had she died then I wouldn't have had chance to experience the more balanced and loving relationship with her that I have now. Until I was in my late 20s at least my relationship with her was extremely difficult. I've talked on here before about the suicide of my closest friend 11 years ago. In the years before she took her life she confided in me constantly and I would spend so much of my emotional energy trying to help her with all her difficulties. She obtained medication, and I do regret not making sure she was getting the best help possible, because she obviously didn't get the right help - or maybe nothing would have made any difference. At the time I was pregnant and living a long, long way away. I have only very recently let her go properly. I have made a really long drawn out job of the bereavement. Becoming friends when we were young teenagers meant that it was one of those giving everything of yourself to each other situations, so vulnerable and open...and it's taken all these years, and finally meeting someone with whom I can do the same thing again (share everything, give everything, let yourself be vulnerable because you trust completely, face the terror of knowing they are mortal) to let her go.

Much like you Ben. I to feel very un easy talking about things in print. But i feel even more un easy not responding to peoples kind words. Missi. As usual, you words are very wise. Thanks for your sentiment. When ever I sink in to depression, I try to think about all the crazy/funny situations my sister got me in to over the years. We grew together in children's homes, we were very young when first removed from our natural parents and to this day I don't fully understand the reasons. I do know that our situation meant we had a very strong bond with each other. Mainly because growing up in those places, back then, was a bit like the fittest will survive. Perhaps that why I got in to Sciences missi ~: Problem was, my sister always piked fights with the big buggers, so I spent most of my time protecting her from her self and other people. I suppose not being able to protect her this time is what I will always regret. These memory's make me smile and now my life seems to be back on track. I hope anyone with bad experiences manages to hold on to the positive.

SORRY To pop to the top, but I'm having a bad old day! I pretend I don't care about fucking up A levels and degree but I do. People say "Oh you are very intelligent" but there is this part of me that doesn't believe it. And another part that just wants to fucking annhilate my own stupid head. This was because we spent the two years in Marrem's Vauxhall Cavalier smoking dope or in the Queens head playing pool. Sadly I was actually drunk or stonned in most of my lessons. I got a B in biology and a D in physics. My chemisry teacher said I was a waste of space and deserved to fail and I would regret it one day. I said it didn't matter because I'd be dead before I was 25. But it looks like she was right (I do regret it) and I was wrong (I'm still alive). It was a major problem when I graduated as I wasn't eligible for a lot of the graduate employment programs. So I had to start lower down and work up. Whilst I am as successful as those who weren't academic failures like me I had to work 10 times harder and for twice as long to get here. I regret that and not being able to tell the person I was talking about earlier what the fuck was going on. and I'm sitting here at my desk, playing it over and over in my head and wondering if I can ever go out into the world and really help other people when I'm such a failure myself. An you know that's all i really want to do - be a good persona and help people.

Past failures make you more human and far more able to empathise with others who need help. (And you don't sound like a failure to me.) [%sig%]

Well. I've got another Alsatian. The other dog is so used to being part of a team that he wouldn't stop pining for poor madalo. So I've had to be realistic and introduce a new dog. His name is shadow, all black short hair and very large. I took them to a large field area to day to see how they would get on and to my surprise, they gelled straight away. Whilst there. A group of people approached with kids carrying those light saver things from star wars. One of them, 'on seeing the size of shadow', shouts. "Get your light savers ready, ees a monster! With that, several young chaps came charging toward the dogs, life savers thrashing about furiously and shouting, "Charge", or something to that effect. I! Found myself on the ground trying to hold back to bloody German shepherds. Well the adults got the kids under control. But my dogs decided to drag me across the field by my sleeve and foot. That was fine. Except they both wanted to go in different directions. ~:

I wish I could drive all the pain and regret out of me. Someone said I should pray for healing but part of me thinks i deserve it. Deserve what? A bit of pain and regret. I shouldn't moan!

Jude, I don't know you, but I've known many like you I imagine.... You were into drugs at one time. You found religion at some point. Perhaps you've oscillated back and forth a few times. I'd recommend giving up both and taking up Jude and who she is. You can live a moral life without all the guilt ya know.

The way I see the world is that without the resurection it can make no sense. Maybe my inability to make sense of the world was what led me to drugs and (altho I don't think so) to religion. I don't know who I am. And if what I am is something I can live with. I know a big attraction to religion was the sense of God as a Father. Someone who could mend all the bits i'd fecked up. I honestly believe he can.

Yep...I know you. You're the only one that can solve the problem you're having I think. How well did you get along with your father?

I admire him and he loves me a lot but he has a bitter sense of humour and has said pretty nasty things about me. About my academic failings and the fact that I dolike getting wasted which he does make me feel like a loser for. I hope God isn't like my father. God is the father I'd like to have had

You said it all. God is the father we'd all like to have. I came to peace with my fathers failings and realized he was only human. Before he died, we cleared our lives of the emotional clutter between us. After he died, I gave up religion and have been at peace with it and him ever since. Freud has it right I think. Read Freud, accept your father for who he is (he may never accept you, and you have to accept that as well). The monkey will go away.

I've lost count of the numhber of times I've been the rope in a German Sheperd tug of war, it's better than being the only barrier between them when it kicks off. but you gotta love 'em eh?

I believe my mind is screwed up- cos just thinking about this depresses me. That can't be right!

Agreed, Ely. Hopefully they won't kick off tonight. But they will get round to deciding who is top dog. Just the Haney moon period I fear. Both are sleeping next to my at the moment. Snoring and farting. What a stink!

I had to have my beautiful German shepherd put down today. I had him for 11 years and I don't think I will ever has such a faithful one like him. His other have, 'another German shepherd', knows something has happened. He wont stop pining. I'm gutted.

I'm so sorry John. I had my boxer put to sleep in September, and it's a horribly sad time, the saddest I've ever been I think. They're family, aren't they? xxx

Oh sorry John. [%sig%]