staying in touch with your inner troll

Having just checked Pauls link out of curiosity I find myself confronted with a post by Hens ma that I really do not believe was anything to do with me actually, at least I have no recollection of making it. I repeat I have never used an AOL ISP to my knowledge but it is possible that I have used a public PC whose ISP I was unaware of. I did find it funny though and not really nasty at all. I'm happy to get the credit for it either way. Perhaps Elfyn could find the time to identify the poster and his/her bloodgroup, age and sexual proclivities.

He is on the run poppits...

Well, well, well, lookee here! The king of trolls himself. Wondered when he'd stick his head over the parapet. Shouldn't you be busy licking some rockstars a.rse somewhere so you can try and buy Karls friendship back?

You lads are such yobs! Well bitch on - you're only proving my point about anon posters not being the real problem.

Stop being such a killjoy Freda!

Sorry Freda, it's the testosterone again. Boys are very competitive, it's what you ladies want.

You can't blame them, Missi, for suspecting you, when you seem so ardently opposed to something you *know* causes us grief. Suppose you're right and only a minority of us are affected. If it doesn't affect the majority of users (and I see only a handful objecting - less than there are on our side,) then why can't we impose something that would make life a little easier for us? No matter how many times people say 'it's only words' or 'take no notice' trolls get to me. They get to me like the Daily Mail, like Richard Littlejohn and Peter Hitchens. As I said, for whatever reason, this just isn't so much the case when I know who they are - when I can number them, and put it in a context. When I *know* my enemies, in short. What's so wrong with letting me know who it is that insults me so much, and maybe figuring out whether they genuinely hate me, or just enjoy pissing me off? Can't you empathise with me on this?

I empathise with you Hen in a big way :)

Not really John, you shouldn't let it get to you, there's far worse waiting round the corner in real life. It's good training in anger management (I really must try it sometime). You can never know your enemies, it makes no difference whether you know their names, sometimes your worst enemy is your best friend. If you want to 'impose' something to make life easier for you, try being a little more tolerant, a little less superior and a little less opinionated and maybe you'll be become transparent to the trolls. You may also of course become a total crashing bore. Now I'm not aiming that advice to you in particular, it applies to me too, the difference is I don't really object when some has a go at me. I may respond in kind but I certainly wouldn't want their right to say whatever to be curtailed. Where Paul and Mykle are concerned my dislike has nothing to do with trolling, it's to do with the fact that I find them both to be insufferable bullies, Paul in particular who likes to think of himself as a liberal teacher, I'm appalled at the thought of him in charge of a class of impressionable kids. And I know my definition may be different to yours but it's no less valid.

am intrigued by Missi's apprentice! Hmmmmmmmm........

'the insidious, self-righteous and controlling tactics employed by people who haven't the grace to hide their eal names' I always hide my eel name. But then I'm a bit of a slippery customer.

Same here AJ!

I have no apprentice. I don't have the patience to pass on the secrets of trolldom. In fact I don't have any patience at all.

Blimey!

"Not really John, you shouldn't let it get to you, there's far worse waiting round the corner in real life." Not much there isn't. Your character-building spiel is typical of the nasty, back-stabbing bully confronted with his wrongdoing. I'll leave the pussyfooting to the rest...they're more born-diplomats than me. You're a protected, smug little pr.ick and I hate everything you stand for. I may be smug, but I'm not protected. I'm not protected by editors, and I'm not protected by anonymity when I'm really pissed off. I'm not protected by a bunch of computers and IPs to throw in the mix. If you had problems in childhood or being successful, don't take it out others. Learn to kill the rage.

Lloyd! Do you want a cupid tea? x

are fiends electric?

Skydolpdin thread 6 from the top when he talks about him/her or her /him well I'm here to put you all out of your misery and tell you its none of them because its just a little old lady who run rings round you all Its me folks JAY!!!! See you all around...

I've been watching all this turmoil about the trolls, honestly some of the trolls are very funny, their humour is also intelligent (especially the arabictroll). I believe that many users have been trolling around the forums, but the real trolls know each other, they also know anyone attempting to steal their identities (and their notorious glory). I never believed that Mississippi has been one of the nasty trolls because he has the courage to say what he thinks using his real identity and I can't see the purpose in him using a fake one just to be nastier, he has a strong opinion, a steadfast thesis which I admire although I often disagree 100% with him. There is only one troll (which is not a friend of the other “official trolls” in myopinion) that I find interesting, permit me not to say who exactly, but this particular person is very timid and when he/she becomes a troll usually is trying to spoil any attempts of reconciliation whereas he/she is one of the most important writers and "fellow-feeling spirits" here. He/she is playing god, he/she is aware of all "cliques", knows a lot about every person that likes replying to threads, he/she knows all the gossip about thread-users and editors, and I congratulate him/her for hiding so well so far (he/she must also be a friend of some of you, he/she is like "spiderman" and "batman" hiding underneath the costume of a troll to protect what he/she considers to be right- you can't fight a phantom can you? so he/she is invincible-this also means that he/she is very fragile. He/she may even attack his/her own friends to sabotage "unhealthy relationships" with cruel and nasty threaders according to his/her apperception. I've said enough about this troll, my opinion is based on what I understood and not on any kind of information, I usually observe things a long time before I dare to declare my thesis.) Regarding Hen, Paulgreco, John and Chant, they are nice people and in my opinion unable or unwilling to scare anybody, they are engrossed in their writing and intellectual matters and try to speak with modesty and politeness. They are the opposite of a bully and of a troll. Most members are like them, nice people with high values. I'd like to say something to these fine men as well as anyone who reads this particular thread: "Don't worry about the trolls, they smell worries. Don't try to fight a troll, they really are not trying to fight anybody, they just like to tease and stir up the passions, but when they are constantly being provoked they will make you regret it. You can pacify things and avoid more conflicts, a troll can't do that it’s not in its nature, as long as you want to un-troll the site, it will resist and insist, a troll will leave when a troll wants, just like you and me and everybody else." The site must stay as it is, free from any kind of censorship, everybody has the right to express himself even if this means to become a troll. So that was my theory about the trolls, maybe it's right maybe it's wrong, but there is truth in it and I'm sure you all know that. I’ve been invited to sign the petition, but I won’t. Not because I am a troll-fan and I’m certainly not one of Mississippi’s friends, my dearest friend is Mykle, the person Mississippi dislikes most! but I would like to become Mississippi's friend, why not? In fact ISN'T THIS OUR AIM ON THIS EARTH, TO BECOME UNITED AND FRIENDS WITH EACH OTHER, ISN'T THAT WHAT PEACE IS ALL ABOUT, CAN WE ARGUE ABOUT COUNTRIES AND WARS IF WE REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES IN OUR EVERYDAY LIVES? I detest any kind of censorship (except the one that hinders sexually sick people from posting their work) and I’m not afraid of trolls or attacks. I am hypersensitive and sometimes I over reacted but this doesn’t mean I cannot be a fighter too when I want and if I care to respond to provocative attitudes I will do so. Peace and let's calm down.

I'm not worried. Not at the moment anyway. Thanks for your kind words, Sky! "but not half so sad as the insidious, self-righteous and controlling tactics employed by people who haven't the grace to hide their real names." Is it egotistical to suspect you may mean me? I thought you liked me Freda! :-( No one's suggesting we eradicate people "stepping out of line" - it'll be the same old ding-dong as always. This'll never be a mutual ass-kissing society. Mark talked about power relationships before. Complete anonymity is too much power on a forum, to much power to abuse without consequences. I completely disagree with you. But I still like YOU! ;-)

*jaw drops*

Sorry Chant - the damn beer makes me speak the truth. *cajoles can of Stella*

Now I'm wondering what would qualify someone as 'sexually sick'

yes, but what about Jay's revelation? dammit, foxed by a rosy-cheeked little old lady!

Shame on us all. *salutes the Jay-meister*

Donignacio, if someone's sexual habits a)put him/her behind bars b)send somebody to the hospital c)destroy other people's lives and d)no pornographic film company would film them, then they are sick.

d is for extreme cases, of course, I don't believe that such habits falling into d category leave any room for creative writing, so we shouldn't worry...

I'm Sparticus....

So you don't remember Torturing Tanya then Sky? And it's nice to see that in spite of you not considering yourself a personal friend, you have not allowed that to cloud your good judgement.

hey Sky, i love your 'spiderman' thesis. this was never in my mind, but now i am thinking very carefully about your idea. as we're onto theories, here's mine: i think that Missi has been the main abusive troll, at least over the past three months. like you, Sky, i used to think he never posted anonymously as he was happy to be outspoken under his 'Missi' screen name. i no longer believe this to be the case. i think he posts abusive comments from a number of different isps, and will sometimes post two troll comments from different isps on the same thread. in doing so, he has made himself count for more than one, he has made himself 'legion' in order to exert a controlling influence on the site. i don't think he is alone in his work, for he has an apprentice troll! his apprentice may be the 'spiderman' you've picked up on, Sky. his apprentice is not as abusive as him and really works just to keep the threads interesting and keep in check some of the site's stronger personalities. occasionally, the apprentice has lapses and posts things they are ashamed of. the apprentice is a very good mimic, and kept Ralph thinking he was being persecuted by Stormy long after Stormy had left the site, which, in turn, has hindered Stormy's return, i think, for i believe he was distressed by Ralph (through no fault of his own) pointing the finger at him. the alliance between Missi and his apprentice may have become shaky now, partly because Missi goes too far, becomes too abusive and flouts troll conventions in his desire to do damage, partly because the apprentice is afraid of being uncovered. so. how does that sound? cool, huh?* by the way, Sky, i also enjoy the intelligent humour of the arabic troll and am glad he's come back to the site. *George Lucas may have inspired me with some of these ideas!

Er, before you completely try to ruin Mississippi, let me tell you that he is one of the most liked and loathed guys on the site. Without Missi this site would be a dull place. Also I think you have stepped into Conspiracy Theory for Morons here. This is absurd. And no, I am not his apprentice. Just someone that has met Missi for more than five minutes and found him a very decent chap. In fact I think everyone who has met him has agreed about that.

Oh dear, somebody needs to get a life!

Paul, I'm so happy that you feel that way about me, it means I'm doing something right. I have no protection on this site anymore than anyone else, you have just proven to all and sundry that what has been said about you is a small part of the truth. You make accusations that are unsubstantiated and when you're proven to be wrong you dismiss them flippantly and pretend it doesn't matter. I wear your hatred as a badge of honour, something you know nothing about you disgusting little creep.

Good post, Chant, I entirely agree! Missi has been exposed as HenStoat’s Mother and other abusive trolls. Here are some of the addresses he has used recently : mississippi (213.78.64.---) (213.78.72.---) (213.78.73.---) (213.78.91.---) Pa Troll (213.78.86.---) O sa ma Papa (213.78.87.---) but he also use AOL proxies for his most abusive posts! I have no idea why Missi feels the need to resort to trolling when he is quite obnoxious enough as himself. However, the sneakiness and hypocrisy involved has dissipated the respect I once had for him and only pity remains.

Hey. I am firends with Missi. So rightfully I stick up for him. But I have to ask, why you do you find him guilty until proven innocent? I have ahd many different ISP's from time to time. I had one from work, from home, from various internet cafes etc.. so it may not him being a troll. and sometimes people do become trolls in an amusing way.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you're a sad troll who loves trolling and making jokes about people's mums wanting retrospective abortions and you gave yourself away by trolling badly and telling us about all your computers and IPs and trying on that outrageous emma business you're an abusive scumbag and everyone knows it and the editors are well pissed off with you because now they've a job on their hands defending your stupid ass just like the chief has to defend the hard-boiled no-nonsense cop in those old american programmes ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha and indeed ha

friends even. damn.

Paul, not exactly egotistical but definitely daft! I didn't name any names! and I am referring to human nature on forums generally. Anything a troll says is weakened by the fact that they're anonymous; the judgemental assumptions made by people being themselves can be much more disturbing and frustrating . In the way that a mural done in anti-graffitti paint is usually less decorative than the stuff it's preventing. "Complete anonymity is too much power on a forum, too much power to abuse without consequences." I disagree because we all have the same right to anonymity. Give someone the power to moderate and they will make their own flawed and personal judgement on what constitutes abuse. If we're not strong enough now to stand up to what people say, then we can BECOME strong enough. But not if we take away people's rights and the confidence to say it. "The site must stay as it is, free from any kind of censorship, everybody has the right to express himself even if this means to become a troll." I'm with Sky all the way. And what an intriguing study she's made of trollery!

The snookers on telly if anyone is interested....

Ha ha ha Mykle you are such a @!#$! I have never used an AOL tag, I have never had access to an AOL tag. And not all 213.78.... tags are me. You show your ignorance of internet workings by making these assumptions. The ISP's I have used are Onetel, Freeuk, Blueyonder (rarely) and pre Aug 2002 Tiscali. As Sky points out, I am quite at home saying what I feel without the need for a pseudonym, and your character assasination attempt is pathetic.

Ooh yeah...

Missi posted yesterday "...I'm sitting in my computer room here at home. I have three computers of my own here, all working, all connected to the net. There is a fourth computer that belongs to my son. Between us we have three ISP's. I have access to seven other computers at the library 200yds from my home with a different ISP. I have 2 brothers and one friend all within 5 mins of my home that also have net access on different ISP's, and I sometimes use a company computer in Southend. How the f.uck is it possible for anyone to stop me trolling in any goddamned name I wish? Do you understand now?"

I missed Can'ts post further up but he also is so far off the mark I can't stop laughing. Another olympic class t.wat. Perhaps if you're all so bothered you would mail me a list of the posts you think I'm responsible for and I'll enlighten you. I would also say that I'm very very happy to count the gang of four as my enemies.

And those of you who believe Stormy has 'gone' are dumb.

Have you no shame, Missi?

As much as you may not like it John 'stupid bastard' Knight, I am not a liar.

The Henstoat's mother example is exactly the reason I want these anti-trolling measures. I was furious about that when it was an 'anonymous' troll. Somehow, once Missi was outed, it didn't seem so bad. It completely alters my reading of the tone and intent behind it. Still think it was childish, but it didn't leave me in a bad mood, like troll attacks usually do. The other thing was that once he'd been exposed, 'Henstoat's mother' never appeared again, which can only be a good thing. I disagree with Freda and Mark about anonymity weakening someone. It isn't simply a reading on a meter. Sure, I take your point that they don't have a big 'influence' over people, but that's not the point. It's a key facet of human interaction that we build up a map of people's characters based on how they behave. It encourages self-discipline and good behaviour when people know they're being judged and assessed for their actions. You take that away and people feel they can get away with anything. As far as I'm concerned, if you support trolling on this basis, then you support (in logic, if not emotion,) people's right to buy kiddie porn off the Internet, their right to smack someone over the head with a crowbar from behind, their right to do *anything* from the cover of anonymity. Freedom of speech is like any other freedom - it should be supported up to a point, and that point is where it causes damage to other people without anyone being accountable. To say that tracking down trolls counts as 'censorship' is an abuse of language. The next time I get an abusive message from a creep, I want to know who it is. It infringes upon no one's human rights to find that out. Nor does it exclude shy users from hiding behind fake names if they want to contribute with a reasonable comment.

It's time for the men in white coats I believe.

Well, I've gotta go now, and travel. I'll be back on by tomorrow, but I expect this will have gone on a little since then. As you may well have noted, this subject has touched a hotspot with me. Trolls in the past have put me in bad moods for long periods - this affects the people around me as well as myself. So it's going to take an absolutely watertight argument to convince me of the argument for letting the status quo go on. So far, the best is Sky's and Freda's idea that anti-trolling measures will affect meek and harmless people, but I can see ways round it. The abusive trolls deserve no quarter.

I don't remember the thread or context of 'Henstoat's Mother' now but maybe it was a bit childish (I've no doubt Mykle will dig it up and re-post it for our benefit). It was not used again because it was never intended to be a campaign against you John, just a one-off thing. Any extended argument I have had with anybody has been under my pen name (up until a few days ago I had 3 registered names here, but that's common knowledge, for the benefit of those that don't know they are apart from Missi, PenDragon and Ladywriter. I have however recently registered a new name, I would tell you what it is but I don't want to be responsible for anyones hernia). Your mates Mykle, Paul and Chant are a million miles from the truth where my trolling is concerned and it has now become a crusade on their parts to try to drive me from the site. I'm afraid they are a little short in the crusading dept. to achieve that end.