12 by Nick McDonell

I keep picking it up and putting it back down again. I'll wait for the £6.99 version. I think he might even be 17.

That might be a good idea. It's very good but also a very quick read for £9.99

are you serious? i thought the book was absolutely horrible. how did you read the end without laughing? or the part where the rich white kid gets sent to prison and finds 'it's not so bad, and the other prisoners don't bother him'? Or the fact that the book is exactly the same as Less Than Zero, even down to the dates when it takes place? Come on. and did you know mcdonell's godfather morgan entrekin both owns the publishing house that published the book, and did heavy editing on the book himself? and that all the people who provided praise blurbs (Hunter Thompson, Joan Didion) are friends of McDonell's father, former editor of Rolling Stone?

Fair enough about the prison bit. The whole thing about White Mike's cousin and the way his killing ties in the rest of the story is good idea but isn't really written very well. That's one of several details which are pretty poor but I like the general story and atmosphere. I didn't reach the end without laughing but I wasn't aware that I was meant to. I wasn't reading it as a work of gritty social realism. I took it to be a darkly comic look at the pointlessness of making lots of money then having nothing to do with it and a exagerrarated pisstake on the attitudes of rich parents towards the obnoxious children they create. Also, I really like the central character. I can't say whether or not it's like Less Than Zero as I haven't read Less Than Zero but in terms of the heavy editing, that might be reflection on whether or not McDonell's a great writer but it doesn't change my opinion of the book itself.

This interests me. Other than celebrity authors like Joan Collins and Naomi Campbell, has the book world ever had its own Milli Vanilli, who fronted up for publicity but never did any of the actual writing ? Haven't read it, but it is certainly possible to have such extremely different responses to a book. I remember telling someone how funny I thought Dave Eggers novel was and them looking at me as if I was insane, they hadn't read it as a comedy at all, but as a self-indulgent tragic tale.

Andrew, I thought the Dave Eggers was hilarious. I think it all depends on what catagory someone thinks a novel comes under. The dave Eggers book came under confessional, therefore some people must have consumered it right after all those Dave Pelzer books. I thought it was a very wry examination of the confessional style, almost a punk rock deconstruction along the lines of 'here's a chord, here's another, here's a third, now go and form a band!".

Haven't read the Eggers book but as he's a reasonably well known humourist/satirist it's probably fair to assume it's meant to be funny. Of course, books can painful and funny at the same time. There's some very funny bits in The Bell Jar. In terms of literary Milli Vanillis. There's the persistent suggestion that the Dick Francis books are written by his wife. Although I suppose that's the celebrity thing again.

well, in that case i mostly agree with your statements about the 12 (except that I didn't really like the main character). i just felt like i was being asked to read a rehash of other, better novels (Less than Zero even includes that technique of using italics to describe memories) and that the whole thing was more suited to a high school creative writing exercise rather than a novel by an autonomous author who had genuinely done the work and deserved to be published. i had difficulty with so many plot points, like that prison bit, or the part where he seems to think condoms are still kept behind the counter in NYC drugstores (rather having a whole big obvious aisle to themselves, which is generally the case), or the part where a pampered rich kid easily beats up a black athlete from the projects--and the black kid's friends cheer the white guy on! i'm 19 years old and i've seen and participated in the NY youth culture that mcdonell describes, and i can tell you he's way, way off. i think it's interesting how the brit media tends to really praise the authenticity of these sorts of narrative, without really having any idea of what they're talking about. (it kind of reminds me of sam mendes' treatment of American suburbia, a treatment which was entirely based on cliche rather than personal knowledge, in American beauty--which of course was acclaimed even in america.)

I have to tell you Jonathan, that the moment in American Beauty where they nearly salvage the relationship and just as they are about to kiss, Annette Benning breaks the moment by noticing that he might spill beer on the sofa, is something that has touched a chord with almost every man I've ever spoken to. And a fair few women get a bit sheepish about it. But you have a point - Brit crits do get steamed up on the idea of the "Great American novel" and the "precocious young talent" and combining the two tends to rob them of their faculties. How can we praise the authenticity of a world we know nothing about? My own pet theory on Milli Vanilli is that Steven King's wife has written all of his books starting with geralds game and continuing to the present.