Lucky Storey.

A bit late arriving at this one. I read this last friday, so it may have been the original version I saw. I certainly noticed the tense changes too and they grated on me like mad. I don't think there was a slang problem from a brit's viewpoint either. I think you have a good basis for a story here, it needs a tidy up and maybe put it to one side for a while before returning to it and editing/rewriting parts that strike you as not quite right.

Hi Tim This story is great. I really enjoyed the set-up, you seemed to create atmosphere and back story with real economy. I do think the relationship between omar and the narrator was the absolute centre of this piece, and when the woman appeared it seemed to lurch into another register, another tone. I felt that i could see the clunky machinery in action, setting up the finale. This story deserves better than just a twist or revelation at the end, i find these endings lazy, and for me, they are rarely satisfying. The courage to end on nothing, on a quiet repose, on a motif picked out in lyrical splendour, that's what i believe is a characteristic of a great story. Once again, there's so much here that really is good, thanks.

I enjoyed it Tim. Sean and Omar are appealing and credible characters and the narrative flows nicely. Some of the sentences need work and the tense slips now and again. I almost lost interest during the Sean’s conversation with Maureen; the background didn’t work entirely for me and you haven’t quite nailed the dialogue. I like the ending but again the dialogue seemed a little stunted. Overall it’s a nice piece of writing. For goodness sake don’t lose your nerve. Don’t get bogged-down in worrying that what you write is good, it clearly is, and the more you write the better it will become. [%sig%]

Well written story. I liked it allot. I agree with choose above, if you come back to this in a month or so and re-read it, you'll be pleased. One piece of advice from a foreigner for what it's worth. It had a bit of a colloquial feel, which I suppose is necessary considering the setting and such, but I would suggest you free up some of the slang a tad. Save the slang for dialogue, in the narrative use a more formal speech pattern. Remember, your readers aren't all living next door.

Thanks for the feedback people, I agree that the Sean/Maureen conversation drags on a bit. I was trying to do a clever play within a short story type affair and maybe I didn't pull it off. As for the ending, well, one for, one against, one abstention. It was not meant to be a twist in the tale ending really, the money was not really the issue. For me, it was more about Sean's realisation that his friend was dead, the moment it hit him. Perhaps I'll mess about with it a bit. I do try and avoid surprise endings, as they can seem contrived and unsatisfying. Also, with regard to the tense, I was kinda playing around with slicing past and present about, for what reason, I do not know, seemed like fun at the time. And yes, it is colloquial and some of the phrases may need translation, but the alternative is to a)not write the story b)not use phrases that the character would normally use c)explain every nuance to the reader, none of which seems particularly satisfying. (If you have a fourth alternative RadioDenver, let me know!!) I'm pleased though that the general response was positive, I really haven't written a word since September last year and I needed to get back on the bike and ride again. I'll try a rewrite of this one and hopefully you guys can have another look for me, thanks Tim [%sig%]

Tim, A fourth alternative...Don't know that I could give you one, it was very well written and enjoyable to read. The problem I had, which may be applicable to anyone in the US and which also translates in reverse is when a writer uses slang terms in a narative which may be unique to a particular region, when otherwise a more formal word would be clearer. Assuming the narrator is "talking aloud", then, yes it's acceptable to a degree to have the narative use the same words as would be spoken by the character. The question for the author would then have to be, "how much slang is necessary". From a training standpoint, and I don't know what the teaching may be in the UK, but in the US, most formal writing instruction say's.."Don't use slang" unless the character is speaking and then don't overdo it. The reasoning I believe is that it makes the writing dated and too colloquial. Who is the intended audience? Words are precise things when used correctly. Taking away from that precision unnecessairly does not benifit the author. Another reason for keeping slang to a minimum; slang changes over time, slang words used 100 years ago aren't fashionable today, most slang turns over every 20-40 years. If an author desires his work to "stand the test of time" he doesn't use phrases and words that will be out of fashion in 20 years. In short, if you intend to write a "period" piece, you are justified in the use of slang terms and phrases, as slang defines and identifies the period. Now to use some American slang...I think I've beat this horse to death. You can put me down as a positive on that story by the way. It was very good. Gary

It's a very British story about sad, disjointed, solitary underclass lives and I didn't feel it was over-slangy as such compared to a lot of writing in similar genre. There are some lovely ring-true descriptions such as the pathetic attempts at "entertainment". I felt that more could have been made of Omar ( an interesting character with a hint of foreignness in his conversation) before his demise - at the expense of the dialogue with Maureen which seems to meander a bit. Very good story overall!

Thanks Neil, I agree that I didn't overuse slang (I would,wouldn't I) and I'd be interested to know what phrases were unintelligible to our friends in the US. There is a difference between slang and local dialect. I was born and lived in London for 25 years and I felt that most of the phrases I used were of great longstanding and had been handed down through generations and certainly beyond the 20/40 year cut off point that you mentioned Gary. 'and I don't know what the teaching may be in the UK', well nor do I, I just use the language around me and hope for the best!!

Tim, I reread your story, third time now. Keep in mind, having been around "Brits" over here, I'm probably more familiar with the dialect differences than the average Joe would be, but not by much, I assume. Please, let me emphasize, there is a difference between "dialect" and "slang". Dialect, as I envision is the pattern of speach, which will obviously be different everywhere. Even in the US, there are distinct regional dialects, so I'll draw on this as analogous. Many years ago in the US there was a famous author called Samuel Clemmons, aka , Mark Twain. He lived in a state called Missouri, a mostly southern culture and much of what he wrote was in dialect and used slang. His work is considered Classic by Americans, however, if one reads it today, the dialect is understandable, but the slang is not. It doesn't translate well to modern political correctness for one thing. Now, compare his work to say, Hemmingway (another famous US Author), who writes a more formal style from the 1940's. Hemmingway in my opinion will hold up better from a readers standpoint for the reasons already discussed. Now for your story, in truth, Neil was dead on with what he said earlier, there wasn't that much slang in your story. Most of what I had trouble with was early on in the story, Pebbledash for example. Now, I'm quite sure you know what this is, however, I don't. I assume it's a pebbled concrete wall or something, but hey, I'm guessing. That's the point. Don't make your reader guess about what you're saying. Not in description anyway. It's actually a minor point, very minor indeed, as the overall story was truly good, but what makes the difference between a really good story and a really great story? Little things such as this. Little things that distract from the intent of the author. This is my point in totality, nothing more. I do the same thing, unwittingly. If you were to read some of what I've posted up here, Driving To Grandma's is a prime example, you'll find a slight bit of dialect and probably a word or two that may be totally understandable to me but foreign to you for everyday use. The very best writers that I personally enjoy reading do not do this very often. This was the basis of my critique. This is one reason I'm on this particular web site, to learn how to conquor this problem in my own writing, so in truth I may very well be projecting. By having an primairly English audience here, I hope to learn a great deal more about how to clarify my own writing style. Unfortunately, I've not got much usefull feedback to date. An exception would be a lovely lady named Emma , who's been a little too kind in her corrispondence, which is gratifying, and from Neil, but I'm very sure my work could stand some picking part "technically" speaking from a British viewpoint. So, Tim, return my long winded and poorly executed favor and tell me what's wrong with my writing from a British point of view. I'd love it! As for your story, in my opinion, you are in the upper 5% of the class here my friend. You, like myself and many many others need a little polish, that's all. Most sincerely and respectfully, Gary (this horse won't die hehehehe)....

Hi all, I have rewritten this story and it is a bit shorter now. I have cut out a lot of the dialogue, which on re-reading was superfulous. If anyone has the chance, I would like to know if it is an improvement. Cheers Tim [%sig%]

Yep, liked this. Captures that stretching of time and the quiet small pleasures of a concrete estate and short-term unemployment. I liked the friendships and I liked the gentleness of the 'shock' ending not actually being a shock to the narrator, who knew all the time. There were some very nice, simple pieces of writing here. These days I'm coming more and more to the view that simplicity counts for a lot - I don't see a lot of underwritten stuff that annoys me, yet overwriting makes me wince every time. I don't think it is too slangy at all, I could have stood for quite a bit more. While I take Radiodenver's point, if you had explained what pebbledashing was, or used another term, every British reader would have thought you were a moron. Good stuff, and if you are having doubts, stop. You will probably get better with time and polish, but this is certainly heading in the right direction and well worth the read. Have you read Ringroad by Ian Sansom? I think you'd rather like it.

Thanks Andrew, I try and write as simply as possible, stripping out all but the bare bones. Sometimes I guess I overdo it, sometimes it works well. I haven't read the Ian Samson book, but I'll give it a go. [%sig%]

It's still good smillie.

(By the way, I meant 'if you are having doubts, stop having doubts', not 'if you are having doubts you should stop writing') - Sheesh, this is why I failed that Samaritans job interview. (Actually, truth be told, I got bored halfway through the induction and went to the pub, where I broke up a fight, so I still served the community...)