these people deserve to die

I do have respect for your point of view, Tony, and you're an intelligent man. I suppose, being a fan of the Simpsons and Kurt Vonnegut, I see comedy (black humour, say,) as a way of drawing attention to and undermining the ridiculous and dangerous. I think there's a case to be made for poking fun at Hitler, at hatred of Jews, at hatred in general - I think they damned well *need* to be ridiculed. I like the Vonnegutian view of people as silly, sorry creatures fumbling along for some kind of answer or control - and I have a distaste for anything which paints us as noble (uniforms, flags,) or tries to unite us by artificial ties (patriotism,) - it seems that mass hatred and mindlessness follows on from this. Almost everything I write is an attempt to encourage humility, diversity, awe of natural forces and oddities - anything that strays from the proud, uniformed man ready to kill and die for some cause. If they aren't all as catastrophic as Nazism, then we're damn lucky, because they all *could* be. Was it Goebbels who noted how easily a nation is enslaved by the desires of its leaders? A soldier doing his job could be making a very big mistake. I may be wrong in my approach, but I'm young enough to be willing to listen to a reasoned argument against it. Rash - You shush, you moose with a glass of lager. Ump.

You read any Raimund Pretzel/Sebastian Heffner lately by any chance Henstoat?

Ps. Are you sure its not "wrathful" as opposed to "wrothful"?

Hmm. I think that my problem would be that I prefer my humour to be funny. Irony is slack. Parroting somebody else's prejudice to an audience who you think will slap you on the back isn't vicious humour, it's just snobbery. Satire is an art. Just my opinion.

I think there is a place for irony and it can be skilfully delivered but I am not convinced Henstoats gag was. Satire, as steve says, is an entirely different matter. But, Hen, your post did not come over that way. It just seemed well, schoolboyish in a non funny non satirical non ironic sort of way. the problem I have with it is that it keeps the 'persecution of jews' thing alive when it should be long buried. the Jewish people (for they are not a race) have always wielded power and continue to do so. I do not have a problem with that. I *do* have a problem with them using 1939-1945 as an excuse to villify anyone that dares to contradict their treatment of the Palestinians whose land they decided to take for themselves. (I know it is more complicated than that). And that sort of 'ironic' joke just keeps on dragging up the past and drags threads such as down to the level of the Sun or Mirror letters pages. that was a guess btw. i don't read either of them. yours, billybob bottom of the boat sacrificial anode-on-thames

the word this was deliberately omitted from the last post. see if you can guess where it should have been. the answer is through the opaque window.

Agrees with Barnacle. Goes off to watch Falling Down to get some ideas.

Barnacle - sound points. Where I disagree is in the notion that it keeps 'persecution of Jews' alive. Yes, such persecution should be dead and buried, but it isn't - not yet. And I think it would be far more dangerous to forget about it or consign it to past mistakes. Discrimination is a natural pit for people to fall into, when made fearful of what is different - the absurdity of the trap must be kept in focus. If my gag, clever or not, brought to attention the stupidity of attacking Jews for being Jewish, or suggesting they deserve to die, then surely it has served some small purpose? I also don't think that ceasing with such language will have any effect on the cries of 'anti-semitism' when criticism is directed at Israel - I mean, people cry 'anti-Americanism' or 'lack of patriotism' when criticism is directed at US just as easily - mostly to convince themselves. The cynicism of those remarks is immediately apparent to those who aren't predisposed to believing such things, and those who are won't be convinced of much else anyway. Steve - I didn't expect a slap on the back. I suppose humour is preferable if it's funny - but I must say, I found the idea funny. I can't necessarily justify that, but just as I laughed the other day at the extremeness of Bart Simpson saying, "Lisa thinks she's so much better than us - I'll dance over her grave!" there is also something I find funny about the complete lack of tact/taste/consideration required for someone to come out with, "Jews! [deserve to die]" It's difficult to explain - and I didn't see myself as being a kind of nudge-nudge comedian. But the base absurdity of the act appealed to my sense of humour. Again, just like most of what I like about the Simpsons is the characters, under the illusion that they're being practical and realistic, acting like crazy maniacs. It's surely just a more extreme version of the humour of the entire thread - irrational nastiness worded as if it were serious suggestion. Liana - wrathful is probably the more usual term, but I prefer the term 'wroth.' It's more archaic and flavoursome to my tongue. Haven't read Pretzel/Heffner - who are they? I must say, I'm very heartened by the general response, and tone of the criticism - you could all very easily have had me for breakfast.

People who say "you know" 296 times in an hour and "erm" 306 times in an hour. (Those are official facts, by the way and I have papers to prove it)

erm, the word 'erm' has pride of place in my vocabulary. 'erm', with silence on either side of it, tends to be about as chatty as i get. *throws himself on sword.*

The people who decide Virgin's 'no repeat workday'. REM and Alanis twice so far today, Paul Weller all the time ... now, nothing wrong with that but that counts as repetition in my book. Erm, I think it does anyway, you know?

Missi - when I become Prime Minister, which is surely imminent, I will be introducing the "People who WANT Mayo should have to fucking ask for it to be put in" Act and there are going to be some fearsome penalties - I cannot understand why it suddenly became such an essential part of a sandwich.

People who never clean up after themselves, people who feign asthma attacks every time somebody gets angry with them, people who smell like chemicals, people who yawn every time you speak to them, people who get stupidly drunk, throw up on you, and don't say thank you when you then clean them up, walk them home, and put them to bed...

people that drop litter; string 'em up, I say.

People who use the last of the milk....and put the empty cartoon back in the fridge. GRRRRRRR!

People who weave through lanes of traffic. (But I see 'em comin' an' I cut 'em off! HA!!!)

People who swear every other word or 'censor' out the word by leaving one letter out and replacing it with an asterix. People who understand computers better than i do. Older people who complain about mobile phones/fashion/ younger people/'all this modern technology rubbish'. People who complain a lot :-D

Sandwich delivery men who cut you up when you're weaving through traffic cos you're in a hurry to buy donuts for your boss.

Drivers that wait until the lane in front is shut before trying to move in, even though they were told a mile back. I block all the cars with no dents from trying it.

Ladies who show cleavage and then begrudge you a look.

*whinges about mobile phones/fashion/younger people and mod tech with unrestrained gusto*

*wonders what a biro is* People in the checkout line who wait until after every item is scanned before beginning to look for their money in a purse the size of Alaska or searching every pocket in their suit/overcoat/suitcase/briefcase/gym bag.

shame on you justyn.. its a pen, invented by the hungarian Lazlo Biro.. it has a little clicky button on it which is used to switch it on and off. several times a second, often. *still isnt calm*

teenager loafers who insist on coming to town with you then keep asking if you have finished shopping yet as they are bored and want to go home ...

Jews! No, I mean... *clubbed to death*

Ah... hello Hen. You're back then.

liana ... are you after my job?

I've been lurking. At least until we get the Internet for our house. I can't afford to start on another wondrous campaign of disgrace and terror when I have less than an hour a day online.

oh? no access at work?

*dusts off the green baize cloth.*

people who read LOTR ...

old people who dance badly.

neighbours who glare at you for parking a van outside their house then take to parking their car there so you can't ... even tho they have a drive ...

Work? Ha! I have cast it aside - back in Norwich, and poetry seminars and that. I have to bus in and use the Uni library IT room.

Smarmy people who say nice things out loud and then whisper obscenities in my ear so that nobody else can tell they said it, then complain when I hit them with a ruler until the ruler breaks, make jokes at my expense while the class laugh, and then pretend they don't know why I've started crying. …Sorry for being so self-pitying, it only happened yesterday and I'm still seething with hatred. People who dress their identical multiple birth children exactly the same, and constantly refer to them as 'the twins/triplets/quads etc'. Horsey, bossy, noisy, superior people. Namely foxhunters. :)

people who tap rings against a mug.. drum feet on floor.. jiggle their legs up and down so much that the entire lecture hall vibrates like a turkish earthquake... see biro clickee.

Or Henstoat.

You'd love me . Since I gave up the cigs I tap and click everything, even crack my knuckles. But i am more likely to chew a biro. In which case you nught hear it crack and splinter, but not in a repetitive annoying way. But I don't keep scratting at least. I go in privae to scrat. I don't like talking to men when they keep scratting their bits. Or drinking coffee with people who lick spoons.

You'd love me . Since I gave up the cigs I tap and click everything, even crack my knuckles. But i am more likely to chew a biro. In which case you nught hear it crack and splinter, but not in a repetitive annoying way. But I don't keep scratting at least. I go in private to scrat. I don't like talking to men when they keep scratting their bits. Or drinking coffee with people who lick spoons.

sorry , i was just correcting 'private' i didnt see the word 'nught' though............... ( on some other websites you get points for each message you post)

People who drive caravans to the West Country. But then I can't talk - as I'm dead already being the prime old person who dances badly - but LOVES IT! I'll dance all night, any night to virtually anything and I DON'T CARE!!! I hope I die before I get old. As for Henstoat's contribution - it isn't at all funny. I am appalled at Israel's current actions in Palestine but I am old enough and sensitive enough to have many many friends with relatives who died in the Nazi death camps and it just ain't even vaguely amusing.

people who unfold their handkerchiefs/tissues to "view" the contents after nose blowing. I mean what are they expecting to find there, an inprint of Christ's face? People who take ages to use the ATM Women that congregate in the toilets at nightclubs talking utter rubbish Children trying out the ringtones on their mobile phones on the back of a bus

Definition of paranoia: looking in your handkerchief before you blow your nose. People who make jokes obsessively.

People who make me work for a living instead of giving me a load of dosh to sit at home

The entire Readers Digest marketing department for sending letters telling me that YOU, MR HOX, are guaranteed a prize in our £ 5 billion prize draw.

I found an imge of Jesus' face in my...........oh never mind ! And why just caravans in the west country. Caravans any-bloody-where !!!!!! Seriousish note - yeah one of the most graphic things i ever saw was a Jewish memorial in Boston (Shameless Plug - see my travelog Massachusetts). I actually cried just seeing the quotes and all the numbers.

And the Jewish quarter in Venice - it's mind blowing. Never had the courage to go to Belsen - it tears me up just thinking about it.

prague's jewish cemetary is astonishing...

get back to the ones that deserve to die, not the ones that never did... bing callers that shriek "two fat ladies eiiighty eiiiight" when you walk along the prom with your sister.

o bing O