desperately searching for a thread thats not called *feedback*

This fellow has a point. All of us need to be aware that this site is comprised mainly of writers, so nobody gets feedback unless there is mutual benefit. From now on, please don't post a piece asking for feedback unless you have given some feedback by email to a writer on this site. Chances are, that doing it this way is (a) going to find you some interesting writing (b) going to make you some new friends and (c) actually get you some feedback anyway without making the more touchy folk on the forums cross.

Heres an idea... in the little box underneath the title of the piece you submit, why not write *would like feedback*. make sure your email address is on the site, and bob, hopefully is your uncle. I've never asked for feedback, I've asked once only for help in editing a piece - I got an incredible number of replies, some on the thread, but most via email. Most people put their work up on ABC for a reaction of kinds... assume that they want feedback anyway, and off you go. If it's a piece that you think can be improved, then tell thewriter why (in a civil and helpful manner) and then you will begin an email dialogue which often moves into a friendship. I've lost count of the amount of times I've done this, and I have yet to recieve a negative response. Endless threads just titled *Feedback* are more likely to alienate people, if there isnt even an authors name in the title of the thread, then what makes it any different? No imagination, so I'm eventually unlikely to even bother opening that thread. A much better idea is one that was running successfully a few months ago, when people recommended three randoms that they hit each day. It encouraged people to read as much as write, and spread a bit of the work around. I know not everyone has as much time as I do to read the last ten entered, but now that the amount of new writers appearing on it has slowed down just a tad, its not that difficult to keep up to date with everything thats coming on, I manage it. If I find a writer whose work I admire, I email them. Simple. Maybe thats why the perception is that there isnt enough feedback going on has occured - there is masses, its just not always in public.

Yes, I agree with liana. I always e-mail if I like someone's work. sometimes I may sometimes make suggestions. for this reason it should be private also, if it seems anything like criticism.

Quoting e-griff "for this reason it should be private also, if it seems anything like criticism." I just can't understand this fear of critical comment that sometimes seems to dominate ABC. To me the MAIN point of putting my work on the Internet is to get feedback, be it good or bad. How am I ever going to improve if people don't tell me what's wrong with my work? And why should I be trembling in my shoes if the "world" comes to know that (say) e-griff thinks one of my stories is crap? Another reader might see this comment and disagree with it, and then I would feel a little bit better about e-griff's damning comment and realize that it wasn't the voice of God sitting in judgement. If indeed I was silly enough to let one reader's displeasure "get to me" emotionally at all. But what if e-griff has pointed out a genuine weakness that I hadn't been aware of before? Hasn't he given me an enormous gift? Are we really such a neurotic bunch that we can't take it?

agree, Sirat. think critiquing should be public - we can all learn from what we perceive to be each other's weaknesses. in point of fact, it would be quite cool if someone said X's story was crap, and then someone else disagreed. we might even generate a bit of argument about the work on abc. or...no, no, that's probably just wishful thinking again.

I understand your point, Sirat and I'm not saying that shouldn't happen- but shouldn't the critic get the author's agreement first? not everyone is the same. because I e-mail 'cold' , don't always know the person, and don't necessarily expect a reply, I don't know in advance how deeply they care. and I would never 'damn' anyone. there are styles I don't like, so I don't vote on them because I wouldn't be objective. criticism should be constructive.

I don't want to read " X's story is crap" - that isnt discussing work from ABC at all, not by any stretch of the imagination. Prefer; "this didnt work for me because blah blah" and then discussion can (hopefully) take place. Agree with Borum topic on the fact that several discussions on the same topic are scattered everywhere though, and its boring.... again, suggest asking for feedback on the small description box. then take it into the correct forum. there are plenty of discussions about writing from abc - at the moment its all centred around *why havent we got a feedback box* type whinge on about 15 threads. we havent got one, we're not "thought cafe" and this is a different site. Thoughtcafe is a great, I have work on there, but agree with andrew that the bill monks' of the world type comments like "great work" are less than useful. If someone asks for feedback in that tiny box that so often remains unused, discussions can be deemed to be fair enough, in this forum (the clue is already in the forum title) and at least they wouldnt be headers such as *feedback* *feedback please* etc etc ad nauseum all the way down the forum....

agree, Liana - 'X's story is crap' - is not a critique in any sense of the word. that said, i think people should be free to write what they want. and it would be interesting to unmask those closet 1-starrers. and a thread that starts with something as banal as 'X's story is crap' can still be turned into a promising discussion - justification for why it's crap required, counter-arguments for story's good points. let the discussion be as flamboyant, rude, contradictory as it gets - there will always be serious voices to weigh in and talk sense, i'm sure (*says hopefully*), just as long as we do actually start talking about each other's work. it would be nice (again wishful thinking) if 'discuss writing on abc' could become the main forum, which is its right, i think.

i dont think that the 1 starrers are particularly worth unmasking... i think that the reason they do it is a perfectly simple one - they get upset by a forum remark. just an opinion, but one i think is probably nearer the mark.. unless something really IS hopeless, and then people are likely to email each other the link and snort *look at this!!* than sy on site that they think its crap. what about resurrecting the random hits thread (it was pretty successul as i recall) and taking discussions on from there? And maybe the critique link could be highlighted on the front page, as (i think george) requested on another thread?

interstingly, as an aside, there are four recent thread headers entitled feedback... three have zero responses, and one has one response. the one that borum started has 10. intersting thread headers will at least attract people in, and hopefully towards a discussion.

I'm new to all this and am still finding my way around the site and forums. I would welcome feedback on anything I've posted, so long as it is constructive. I have to disagree with chant though. I don't think a rude remark could ever be deemed constructive. If someone thinks my work is crap, I’d like to know why they think so and how they think I could improve it. If it’s hopeless, I’d still like to hear, but I’m sure all you talented writers could find the words to tell me so, constructively.

EXCATLY! surely written comments should be encouraged on a site for writers. I must have done hundreds of reviews of other people's work and always managed to find something constructive to say without ever being either insulting or overflowing with adoration (unless it deserves it).The worse the piece the more room for improvement and the more effective the advice can be. As someone noted on an earlier thread, the act or criticism and review is part of the development of a writer.

There is of course a difference between someone saying "I've written this piece, but I'm not sure that the dialogue works at such and such a point" or "The plot seems a bit shaky" and wanting help with it (which usually gets a positive response) and the people asking for feedback who actually want "tell me how great I am" If changing the site to allow feedback is going to cost money, which it is, I for one think that even if that money could be found, it would be better spent on getting the abc anthology off the ground. Getting some really strong writers into print for the first time seems much more worthwhile. There's a way of getting feedback here which works, if the writer is prepared to also give feedback to others. I did like Chant's "three random stories commented on" very much indeed and I'd like to see that resurrected. I'm not opposed to negative comments, as long as they are purposeful. But there are people around for whom Simon Cowell from Pop Idol is a role model.

Vicky's story "x" is crap ;)

I write F****in crap! THERE I've said it! It's all absloute Sh**** (of is that filtered? not sure) I feel better!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for black puddin' - i seem to be leaking fast!