Confuddled by Poem of the week

Piss off Jasper

Well, at least I tried to rationalise your literary brilliance from the scribbling of zealots like this 'Irritated' little twat above, Mrs Burinsmith. But then as you seem content to just lay still and cop it all so sweetly, I'd suggest my reasons for withdrawing my work from this site are quite obvious and very justified!

Yes, because you are shit. We get it.

Jasper, When I submitted this poem I had no expectation of it being well received. I'm not quite sure why I put it in. I don't write a lot of poetry and I am the first to admit that I don't know a lot about it. I was surprised that it was selected as poem of the week, and quite pleased that at least one person (MB) saw it the way I had written it. Whether it receives a general accolade is not important to me because I mainly write poetry for myself. So it doesn't matter if it's cherry picked or not. Thanks for your kind words just the same. B btw, I wonder if irritated is able to respond to the content of your words, or just to who is saying them? As the content of Jasper's message concerns me and my writing, can you not see, irritated, how your sarcasm misses its target and strikes me instead? Or was this your intent?

Burinsmith, I'm sure I'll catch hell over this but so what? Jasper has flapped his gums so much, many of the people that use this site can't possibly take him seriously. The end result is what you're seeing here. If he attempts to be intelligible it still isn't taken seriously. Thus you have the above type of response. It is of his own doing, so don't think it has anything to do with you. In truth, I agree with Jasper on this matter. (geeze what's happening to me?) Since I'm capable of filtering nonsense from common sense, I'll add my two sense worth to this. For reasons that elude me, and no longer really matter to me, the writing section of ABCTales has been suffering from poor design and inattentiveness for quite some time. I don't find this to be a very good place to write and receive feedback. Not that my writings are great works of art or anything, but I just can't stand the text editor, the formatting and the overall look and feel of the system. There are other inconsistencies such as the one Jasper raised. Another problem is a writer can't tell how many times their work is read. Since useful feedback is rare, it would at least be interesting to know if anyone was reading your work. In a nut-shell, reading work and submitting work here is pathetic and does no justice to the concept that I believe ABCTales is trying to accomplish. For each of these reasons, I too have stopped submitting work here. It's just a waste of time and effort in my opinion. I do like your work though. Keep at it.

Thank you for your sane comments RD. There aren't many people around who are prepared to cross into no man's land. I also had hoped to get an idea how many people were reading my stuff, and that I would have some idea of how it was rated. The high volume of material passing through means that most of it is only read by a few people. It's a pity you withdrew your stuff, I would have liked to read some. What did you write, stories or poetry? Or both? Last night I just started rolling up my tent, marking my stuff private. I think it's time to move on to something that is more productive. I find that keeping up with the forums uses up a lot of time that used to be spent writing and makes me aggro at the same time. God knows I have enough aggravation in my life to start with! Thanks for your kind words re my writing. The good opinion of an intelligent person is worth having. B

Burinsmith, I think I venture from no-mans-land on occasion, rather than into it. *little smiley thing here* As for reading my material, some of it is available on my personal web site... feel free to visit and leave any feedback you deem appropriate. If you'd like to attempt publishing some of your work, feel free to visit my e-zine...It's a small journal with a few bright spots here and there. R.D.

burinsmith: Radiodenver points up the two most frustrating things about ABC i.e. the lack of a practical way for the writer to get feedback--and I mean every writer of every piece, at least something--and the absence of a way to get any sense that one's piece is even being read, a hit counter, or whatever. Nevertheless, I continue to post here intermittently, and scan the forums, in the name of several of the people that frequent the site and whom I have a regard for. As for your poem, and to your attention, what about changing your passive verb 'was' in the first line of each of the first three stanzas to 'as' and then killing the 'Who' that leads off the second line of each of these same three stanzas, to read Where is the man who as a boy Laid a mirror on the grass ....... ....... ....... Where is the man who as a boy Saw demons cowering ....... ....... ....... Where is the man who as a boy Counted desert pockmarks ....... ....... ....... Beyond that, 'til' is not a word, and either 'til, or until, might be preferable. Proceeding, how about, instead of the 'How he explored' in the second line of the fourth stanza, I heard a tale of this man Exploring the abandoned tram tunnels under Sydney ........ ........ Finally, do you need 'Myself' in the next-to-last stanza, and would it be better to avoid the clank of 'him' and him' ending the two lines of the last stanza, perhaps something like If your path crosses his Tell him I'm looking for him. Anyway, to your attention, and hopefully there is something from these remarks that will be of use. Swep

Those changes will really take off the rough edges. You sound like you know a thing or two about poetry. Thanks for taking the time to time to make a considered response. Have you got any work on here at the moment? Under bosch? As I mentioned above I only write poems for my own pleasure, so I don't always put them through the same rigours as my prose. (Not that my prose is perfect either!) One thing I struggle with in my writing is to chop away elements that seem arbitrary but give the piece an individual flavour. Sometimes an awkward choice of words seems like the right one, just because it suggested itself so strongly. Obviously the finished piece, if it is going to be offered to others to read, should follow enough rules and conventions and have enough style to be coherent and fluent. I guess that's the difference between a good writer and an average or poor one, being able to pull that off. And being brutal enough to really put an axe to the tree. Am I being sentimental or just average? Doesn't really matter in one way. I'm a big believer in giving yourself the freedom to do one thing badly, just because you like it. (I hope it's not the poetry because if it is I'm going to have to give up hip hop dancing!) Thanks again. My counter now reads four. B

Bosch is very very good, B........ Perhaps one of the very best in the business! And yes, I half agree with his suggestions in relation to the first two verses...but the first two only, and only if you feel you must. I say this because I feel a Poet/ess must consider all perspectives, and yet still offer the reader a point of entry, where they become one with your poem (IMPACT). Hence your repeated use of WHO and WHO(M) within the tension of WAS (in context to/of flow), works well to express a certain questioning wisdom about this boy's innocence and nature! Like prose, poetry has an introduction, a body, and a conclusion....and the first two verses using Bosch's suggestion may work well (INTRO).... But by using AS instead of WAS, the reader will be more restrained to enter: perhaps even left behind to become just a silent witness? THE BODY This boy needs to grow and bloom (elevation). And I feel no changes should be attended from the 3rd verse onward...... 'WAS' introduces an adolescence boy here, whereas 'AS' would have him sensed as still being in his infancy! 1* CONSIDER: Where is the man who as a boy counted deserted pockmarks Q. Did the boy walk with someone or was he old enough to make his own mind? 2* CONSIDER: Where is the man, who as a boy, counted deserted pockmarks Right across the many miles of red Nullarbor And planned his return To dig for the gold that miners had missed NO QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED...he was alone, which is true to motif and tension. As for the final verse, this I feel is where the boy/man becomes the ACTUAL MYTH by being totally disconnecting from the reader's mind, which must exit to reconsider YOUR EXTERNAL OPINION (it's very potent, B & B)......hence conclusion is completed in context with/of the title! Myself, I have seen a photograph of him (He's old) In England, (he's gone) Lying on a poet's grave (He's dying too) and smoking a cigarette (Yes, dying quickly...thank God for the Photo) If you see him Tell him I'm looking for him (ending on a mystery of the mystery...very cool) I am sorry, Bosch, I wouldn't touch it...but then I know nothing (honestly)!

This boy needs to grow and bloom (elevation). And I feel no changes should be attended from the 3rd verse onward...... 'WAS' prior, introduces an adolescence boy here (man), whereas 'AS' prior would have him sensed as still being in his infancy! sorry...i'm so confuddled when forced to think for once!

Interesting. Thanks Jasper. I thought about it and read the poem again (you'd think I'd know my own poem back to front wouldn't you) and I remembered why I left it Where is the man who was a boy who...It seems to be slightly different in meaning. To me, the way I wrote it suggested something about the person, the other way he is not defined by what he does. It means "he was a strange person to do these things". It is definitely less awkward the other way, but does it change the meaning? When I write, poem or not, it usually is fairly prosey in style I think. I sort of thought of the person in the poem to be on a quest, and everytime she meets someone, in a pub, or on the road, she tells this little story. So if it does sound kind of clumsy that fits in a way. Or not? I'm glad you liked it. Thank you. B

It's neither awkward nor clumbsy....it questions, it says, and it evolves while reflecting around and upon it's title ......"WHERE IS THE MAN"......its like trying to sense him between two mirrors.......a damn fine piece, B. You're glad I liked?...nahhhhh....you're mistaking me for someone else again, I'm sorry...... I adore it....no d's in here.

burinsmith: It's certainly your poem, and you have an enthusiastic reader, and supporter in Jasper, but the reason to get rid of awkwardnesses, of clumsy writing is to not distract, de-track your reader from fully engaging with your poem. Anything that stumbles the reader's eye, that catches like a hangnail, breaks the reverie, the interaction with the poem. If you think about it, your meaning is not changed with the substitution of 'as' for 'was' and the elimination of 'Who' to lead off the 2nd lines of stanzas one, two, and three, though it is slightly different. And the repetition of 'him' to end the last two lines of your poem simply isn't the best you can do. For me it's clumsy, and I don't experience the lyrical 'ahh' that one gets when a poem ends 'just right', in fact, even as I did on my first reading of the poem, I started fiddling around with the two lines to see how to improve the close, definitely a distraction for one trying to interact with, and experience your vision. In any case, Jasper I applaud your passion, and burinsmith, the above to your attention. Swep

Hmmmm....before they start calling me a stalker or something cooler, again, I 've tried and tried to re-write this piece but the end.....ahhhhhhggg...I can't seem to think to rid a few HIM's Where's the Man Where is the man who - as a boy - laid mirrors upon the grass, Sinking deep holes of blue sky into the core of the earth Where is the man who - as a boy - saw demons cowering in the stringy blackness, Being held at bey by haloed shed light while he stayed til nine to chisel wood. Where is the man who - was that boy - after counting deserted pockmarks across the many miles of red Nullarbor, Planned his return to dig for gold that miners had missed. I heard a tale of this man, How he explored the abandoned tram tunnels under Sydney looking for the bunker Where government ministers had planned to hide from nuclear disasters. It was said he crawled through a tiny hole and found only an empty room, Full of funnel-web spiders. Some claimed he feared his heart would be eaten while travelling down the Sepic River once, In a dugout canoe. But myself, I have seen a photograph of him - in England - Laying upon a poet's grave whilst smoking a cigarette. If you see this man, Tell him I'm looking for him. OK...your turn, Bosch.......please show the lady...errrr, and me please!

I'm a big fan of this poem's sense of adventure. There's the class verse about the bunker and the funnel-webs. Scotland's secret bunker is only about 20km or so from here, all 1980s transparent maps of fallout from Grangemouth and cryotubes for Malcolm Rifkind. Big ups from the Angus massive, Burinsmith.

It's FINE as it is!

Edit only this line: And still stayed on til nine to chisel wood it should be: And still stayed on 'til nine to chisel wood. A good piece.

til is perfectly acceptable.

HAHAHAHAHA nice one

til is not perfectly acceptable frenetic one, it may be just acceptable. here is a nice site you may find something useful such as how to tell time and other stuff and I laughed TILL my sides hurt with your satirical username and satirical email you_r_running_out_of_rhyme bye bye

'til is right, nicoletta is correct. Till is also used, but isn't strictly correct... I had a 'til circled in an essay once. Calls himself a professor... hrmf. It's short for until, but till has become a word in its own right.

Thanks for the link, Clock Face. It mentions my Aunty Meridiem. How did she get in there? OK - point taken. Till not til unless 'til. Must lie down. I feel il. References- 1. till cock-crow, when he gave me fricatives Dorothy Molloy (Hare Soup - Faber & Faber) 2. where once I used to scintillate now I sin till ten past three. ... Roger Mc Gough Adieu 'till next time! Frenny. [%sig%]

ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching ka-ching Yee haw! I though till was something you did with a piece of, er, farm toolery. Thanks Smiley, thanks richardw!

I hope you will soon feel beter Frenny. Any Adieu Will Be Fine.

Radio, I checked out your website! Amazing, you look EXACTLY how I imagined you. Cool. I have read one of your stories, Heavy Metal, and really liked it. Do you mind if I comment on it here, or would you rather I email you direct? I can only read one thing at a time on-line without going cross-eyed. I'll read more of your stuff later.

Frantic clock's ))))))) PING (((((( a little overwound! Till'd too many rabbit furrows ploughing the feilds today, I supspect! Anyhooo.....where's SWEP gone?

Errr...what's a supspect? Bloody Peter Seller's! Hmmmm......you've been holding out us, Denver? You write well. But I was looking for two heads?......"kidding with a smile*

I hear what you are saying.

jassspurrrrrrr.... oh mymymy.... babe!! tweet chirrrrp...

hey radiodenver.... go to a kindergarten hunney for that's where yuh belong.... that's where chillun's teachers give their chillun's nursery rhymes feedback and marks -- how much did yours score the last time yuh did submit one dearieeeeeeee-drearieeeeeeee...... CHIRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrppppp....

Like prose, poetry has an introduction, a body, and a conclusion.... HAHAHAHA JASSSPURRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... that kinda stuff's for writing nursery rhymes baby not grown up stuff... burinsmith... read your poem.... it's kinda ok imo... though that repetetive where is the.... line really got my goat..... it felt like reading a q & a section of a schoolmistress..... drop it.... use it only once.... that would really snazz it up....chirrrrrppppp...tweet tweet .....