First of all, I'll bet Britain has some braggarts of one sort or another. And I know there are many Americans who are quite accomplished and humble.
Though I confess that I'm only the former, the main reason I've been talking about myself in this forum has been to respond to various insults without participating in a feces throwing contest.
I will point out that these "insults" have been quite lacking in rhetorical skill and wit. They're not even fit for a decent bar... or pub, as the British call it.
Not that it matters much, but I don't value any patriotism beyond a limited and wholesome pride in one's region or culture. And as an admirer of Arabic culture, a socialist, and a long-time environmentalist, I'm not quite the poster child for what rational world citizens dislike about recent happenings in America.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
Sorry if I sounded flippant, dismissive or trivialising with my 'entertainment' comment, Sean. That wasn't what I meant. I was just struck by how animated people had become over the issue. Comments on it seemed to be the main things being posted on ABC for a while!
"First of all, I'll bet Britain has some braggarts of one sort or another. And I know there are many Americans who are quite accomplished and humble."
That's not the point. There's a cultural difference (and a fairly big one) in methods of expression.
I'm not making a moral judgement either way. Self-deprication can often be just as annoying as self-assertion.
If Sean genuinely can't understand I find this kind of thing:
"What importance my writing has stems from the lessons I've labored to learn, like a fisherman or a milk-maid, from the larger world, and from the long labor of word-smithing."
very funny and others find it very annoying, I think these kinds of discussions are going to keep happening.
* ...there are many Americans who are quite accomplished and humble.
Though I confess that I'm only the former... *
Oh dear, he's made a confession!
The only things you're accomplished in are conceit and self-publicity.
You *can*, according to the rules, post links to your own work and ask for feedback. But you're not supposed to do it for purely promotional purposes. It's not a matter of etiquette. It's abusing the forums.
"I will point out that these "insults" have been quite lacking in rhetorical skill and wit."
Who are you to judge? You don't demonstrate any rhetorical skill or wit yourself. Plus, no one is trying to be particularly witty - what they're all trying to get at is The Truth. And the truth is that your estimation of yourself and your own achievements is far above the reality. Your manner *is* obnoxious and self-important. Your poetry isn't 'beautiful'. It's competent, in parts, but could use improvement in others.
You know why humility is valued so much? Because a humble person readily admits their failings, and admitting there's room for improvement is the first step to actually improving. You're refusal to admit that you've done anything wrong, and your rebuffing of all criticism of your poetry and manner is preventing you from getting any better. And you do need to get better - a whole lot better - if you don't want to die having never produced anything of note.
~
I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe
Alan, no offense in the world! With only text to judge, it's often hard to discern people's tone.
Earlier, I wrote: "I am not of much importance. What importance my writing has stems from the lessons I've labored to learn, like a fisherman or a milk-maid, from the larger world, and from the long labor of word-smithing." Bukharin and his ilk on this forum dismiss that as quite humorous.
Well, my statement reflects socialist values I share with "the best people" across the world. A writer should be a friend and servant of the great, creative masses.
Now, I'm not going to waste my time rebutting one after another of these trite, Insipid comments. I will say that if the ABC Tales staff want to remove this thread, I think that would be best. It would make room for some sort of literary discussion.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
boy people, I left the discuss writing forum a few days and what have i come back to? Is this really such a big deal? In fact, why is everyone still arguing over the issue? If you keep insulting each other it's not gonna stop, and I think it's obvious you're not going to change sean or alan or missi or saggy or archer or anyone elses opinions by getting in a childish argument with them. Everyone has stated their opinion of Sean's work yet he doesn't seem accept the crit, is that some sign to keep telling him your opinion?
Give me the beat boys and free my soul! I wanna getta lost in ya rock n' roll and drift away. Drift away...
I want to point out that I haven't insulted anybody... only their commments. I'm aware that's a fine distinction but it holds. That doesn't mean that I'm trying to make up with anybody; I'm so offended that I couldn't honestly accept an apology from any one of these people. (I'm in quite ill health.)
Courtesy is actually a value that's close to my heart. As Confucius said, "Courtesy is next to morality." And I'm aware that I'm discourteous by flagging my own work on this forum.
But I have such compelling reasons for sharing my work that it outweighs the consideration like a stone does a feather. But it'll be a long time before I flag any more of my work on this forum; I am a drunken jester at times, but I'm not the clown they paint me as.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
What we have here is a car crash ladies and gentlemen. People just can't help taking a peek. This must be the ABCtales version of Big Brother or some other carcrash TV the public so so enjoy; it has the biggest hit to be seen in a while. Tusk, tusk, where should our allegiance lie? With the housebound ill Mr Nelson and Archer Girl or the masses (who must know best because they are the masses)??
Sean you are annoying blowing your own trumpet; it is unseemly. But given your condition and situation it is perhaps understandable. And it is all down to a matter of wording dear boy. Instead of telling us how good it is, post it up and ask for opinions (you perhaps thought you were already doing this - nah!)
I can't help feeling there is a lot history here - if you know what I mean. All that has needed to be said has been said - the point made!
Whichever way you look at it, it just becomes another distraction we can do without. This site is about learning and improvement (work and self) and keeping your hand in (I think), even the forums are used to keep the wits sharpened and to let off steam. If you already know it ALL and are SO good - f*** off and get published; and stick your fingers up in a proper way.
'it is nice to be important, but more important to be nice' (vomit!) that must be one of those american sayings - yuk yuk yuk - chill out and have a good day writing something worthy of your individual talents.
Respect to you all.
skinsen
Thanks louisecypher for putting me straight (I assume you refer to me in the above, hard to tell amid the ranting) But my my what anger! Not much respect for recently berieved people either, not nice. You read my post wrong I think (I apologise to sean if he does too). hey ho. Hate to think i was contributing in a negative way to the frenzy. Just pointing out (obviously in a bad way) the negative voyeuristic effects this thread was having - sorry, grovel grovel -
I guess your intention not too honourable either but merely to aggitate, hence the pseudonim on pseudonim hey, louis? - louise? - jasper? - whatever.
I reiterate - chill out and have a good day writing something worthy of your talents.
Take it easy ;)
Skinsen, you seem like a quite reasonable fellow and I respect you. But, as is the nature of internet forums, we can't understand each other and the myriad experiences that form us. My poetry has the potential, at least, to be a significant force in the liberation and improvement of the world. So I've never given much of a fuck about courtesy on this forum (there is a history, dang my gosh!!...) my vision extends as far as the American plains in that I want to aid the burgeoning vitality of Gaiaa, or the world.
I've been a fool, too; It was only a few years ago that I gave some credence to the idea of "white supremacy," not that I was ever active. In highschool(14-18,) I had a small and ignorant fascination with Nazi Germany, primarily for the reason that it was so taboo.
Though I note some exscuse in the authoritarian nature of my American educational system, I revile any such pro-Nazi expressions; I repeat, I loathe any sympathy with the Nazism of World War II. I'm also disgusted with those elements, including the American government and unnamed Others, that so burdened the people of Germany that they were deaf to the evil of the Fascist/ Nazi regime.
In that spirit, Jasper(if Louise is indeed you,) leave me alone! I'm not insulting you, but your anti-semitic comment of long-ago forbids me from accepting any aid from your quarter. (I'm not a percent Jewish that I have any knowledge of.) I was also at a point in my development racist... but I will no longer in any form ally myself with any form of division along the lines of ethnicity.
Mis., Buk. Jack. , etc., don't think I have any more toleration for your VULGAR behavior. I simply value the word and genius of "civil!" If my ally isn't Jasper, you've absolutely just attracted your own level of expression.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
Mr Cade
please.... you ask 'Who are you to juge?' and then....
'And the truth is that your estimation of yourself and your own achievements is far above the reality. Your manner *is* obnoxious and self-important. Your poetry isn't 'beautiful'. It's competent, in parts, but could use improvement in others.'
Play fair you cops!
The Lone Groover
P.S.
"The writer is a spiritual anarchist, as in the depth of his soul every man is. He is discontented with everything and everybody. The writer is everybody's best friend and only true enemy - the good and great enemy. He neither walks with the multitude nor cheers with them. The writer who is a writer is a rebel who never stops."
William Saroyan 1958
First of all, everybody has a right to their opinion regarding my poetry, or whether I should have posted it. Where I take issue with a certain group here... is their foul and bullying manner of expression. It's not that hard to figure out what kind of people you're dealing with when they start ripping into your nationality as well as yourself. Personally, I think much of the wealth of America, Britain, Europe, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc., should be re-distributed to the third world. I figure there will be fewer terrorists if there are fewer humans on the globe who are terrified of starvation and epidemic.
I regret having been obligated to brush away Jasper's support, but I thought it best. I'm not that concerned about my personal status on this internet forum with a bunch of people I don't know from Adam's left mule; Rather, I'm trying to discuss certain ideas in a logical and humane way. I am, just in case, accepting apologies.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
Your conceit, ego and sheer arrogance are staggering, Nelson. You do however. share one thing with your more talented and famous namesake, you're half blind.
Can't you get it through your thick head that no one gives a fuck about your poetry? Mainly because you keep telling us how great it is and it's going to save the world. As Jon said, it's nothing more than competent at best.
Get your head out of your arse and you may just start to get the messages.
Sometimes eloquent language is a waste of time and you're a case in point, it only encourages you more, hence the blunt turn of phrase that leaves nothing to the imagination. In short, you are a fucking pest, don't you have something better to attend to, like improving your writing?
For what it's worth, YOUR persistence in flagging your own work amounts to insidious bullying, so stop bleating about those that reciprocate in kind.
You've got about as much chance of receiving an apology from anyone as your poetry has of changing the world; ie. NONE!
"It's not that hard to figure out what kind of people you're dealing with when they start ripping into your nationality as well as yourself."
The point that there are cultural differences between British and American people isn't 'ripping into your nationality'.
In my case, it was an attempt to explain why some of us find your 'self-assertion' either humourous or annoying, and you're unable to understand why you generate this reaction.
As I've said already, I think in some instances the generally American tendency for people to state their opinions and talk about their abilities in an open way can be a really good thing and can lead to benefits for others.
The problem is when there's a big gap between someone's estimation of themselves and their abilities.
"I've been a fool, too; It was only a few years ago that I gave some credence to the idea of "white supremacy," not that I was ever active."
Well, that pretty much explains everything! You may have given up on being a Nazi, but apparently, the accompanying self-righteous certainty, lack of tolerance (or 'toleration', to use your vocab) toward differing opinions, scant regard for others' feelings, lack of logic, humility or self-awareness are all still a part of your personality.
Put yourself in our place, Sean. Imagine, some kid comes up to you, thrusts a pile of soggy paper into your hand and says, "Look at my art! It's going to change the world! I am a genius!" You turn your attention to the paper, only to find it's the torn out pages from a German recipe book, stuck together with blood! You tell him, but he ignores you, and keeps dogging you, shouting, "It's concept art! I have a great vision! I am going to be a powerful influence on the future!" You tell him to stop it, and he starts shouting abuse at you. Would you show 'toleration' to such behaviour?
Have you thought of workshopping your poetry, so that you can improve and maybe have something published one day? Then you'll get some readers.
~
I'll Show You Tyrants * Fuselit * The Prowl Log * Woe's Woe
LOL. I'm not intimidated by you anymore than I was by the 10-year old schoolyard bully whose fingers I gave a good twisting(he later got me the same way.) i Desire to at some point here record my unconventional atheism, which respects the certainty of aliens and the definite possibilites of such things as telepathy and tele-kinesis.
I have to refute some of this ''J. -adeian" nonsense or well-meaning people could actually buy into it. See, it takes courage to openly admit your worst thoughts(ones you never acted on) to a group that's hostile to you. But to demonstrate my developed consciousness to discerning people, I did so. And I can do it without prostrating myself because I've since travelled to Thailand and put my life on the line for peasants of another ethnicity, shared my room with a homeless old American black man, etc. By the way, the arrogant actions of the British Empire were a major factor in Creating nazi Germany and your adherence to the latter is similar to my long out-grown intellectual state, fostered by English authors like Joseph Conrad and Shakespeare, who I still admire greatly.
And as far as these accusations of egotism go, my first response is that I'm a high-functioning autistic(a common road to freakish accomplishments such as Mozart's music,) and that this is quite a different phenomenon from the egotism of millionaires like Donald Trump(as a fervent socialist, I couldn't really object to some fifteen centimeters more than the removal of Trump's bad hair.) In continuance, individuals on this forum(such as Skinsen) could probably teach me a lot about sociality.
But, if treated with a dismissive attitude, I'm morally unable to access such helpful teachings. And, for those trying to somehow intimidate me over the internet, you'll have about as much luck as the Liliputians attempting to tyrannize a loose Gulliver.
You know, I feel like continuing so I suppose I will. The great thing about being a truly accomplished person is that I don't need(and to speak "British," would really rather not be subjected to) your approval in the least Liliputian bit, Jack Cade and reactionist ilk. No, I'm not widely published in conventional literary magazines, though I do have a couple such publications. But that's because I've been so busy running my maniac guerilla operation on the internet that I haven't applied to such magazines for at least a couple years. Also, I've been busy contributing my literary skills to green-socialist politics, which has landed me on The Empire of America's "no-fly-list."
Lastly, just to turn you "green," I have a socialist hook in a major publishing house just waiting for a book-length manuscript, which will probably be a kids' book, fitting my level of discipline(notice the university-certified punctuation and grammar; I could that at the age of 10 but I've been striving for a little more.)
In finality, notice that all of the vulgar or in American, "cuss," words, have been used by my detractors and NEVER by myself. Although I suppose some of my initial reactions are ANGRY enough to ignite another suicide bomb or so, I've victoriously funneled them through the Beautiful process of Civil Rezistance, in a small imitative fashion of M.L. King, that admirer of baseball player Jackie Robinson, who lies ahead of me in my voyage of Discovery.
(I should add that all your S-talk, while it would be uproariously laughed at in an american Pub, would at least be free of King Claudiush COWARDICE!!!)
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode" - Elliott Smith
Give me the beat boys and free my soul! I wanna getta lost in ya rock n' roll and drift away. Drift away...
Give me the beat boys and free my soul! I wanna getta lost in ya rock n' roll and drift away. Drift away...
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